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General discussion (archive)RockPaperSocialjustice is at it again(841 posts)(841 posts)
(841 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 23, 2013
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Narakir: So ?
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keeveek: I was just responding to some comments about how whites cannot be oppressed. If you didn't understand, that's cool.
Everyone can be oppressed, its surely not white males that are the most oppressed in countries that pretends to be more advanced in terms of civil rights.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by Narakir
Posted November 23, 2013
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Kennethor: I live in Sweden, it is one of the richest and most equal coutries in the world and we still have a lot of racism and women being opressed here. There are a lot of countries in Europe where the racism is spreading.
It's not, it's dying the slow death it deserves, and maybe if people stopped treating minorities with pity and instead respected them it would be gone a lot quicker and less painfully.

But whatever if you don't want to talk to me no more, i don't want to hear what you have to say either. Good Day.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by WBGhiro
Posted November 23, 2013
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stoicsentry: I'd rather not live in a world where your skin color and gender determines how "right" or "wrong" you are about a given situation. Oddly enough, one would think that would be the world that feminists are trying to create but apparently not.

Anyway, we are all able to use logic, reason, compassion and critical thinking regardless of our skin color or gender. Why not do so?
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Kennethor: So you mean that I as a white male know exactly how it is to be a black woman and how it feels to be violated in different ways by the society? Are you serious?
What I mean is that you're under no obligation to worry about how others might feel or what they might think or believe if they make no effort to appeal to facts outside of themselves. But if they do, that's just fine.

If we follow your "I don't know exactly how it is" idea to its inevitable conclusion, then where does that leave us? Why limit it to race and gender? How about nationality/ethnicity, disability or non-disability, fat or thin, tall or short, Christian or Jew or atheist? The conclusion is that no one can judge the thoughts or ideas of anyone else.

You don't know much about what it means to a feminist do you? You better look that up.
Which statement did I make that indicates I don't know anything about feminism?

If people could think logically and see themselves in other peoples shoes the world would not be as it is.
Some people don't and therefore, I shouldn't suggest that people *should*? I don't follow.
Posted November 23, 2013
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Narakir: Everyone can be oppressed, its surely not white males that are the most oppressed in countries that pretends to be more advanced in terms of civil rights.
But what does the "mos oppressed" mean? This is not a contest. Racism is equally bad, it doesn't matter which group is subjected to racism the most. There is racism against whites in USA too, but obviously not that widespread like racism against blacks.

Racism is always bad, even if it's a marginal thing for some ethnicities.
Posted November 23, 2013
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stoicsentry: Sorry about that, I could have sworn this was a public forum. I had no idea that I was breaking into your private messages.
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monkeydelarge: So because a personal question is asked in public for someone who is not you, you should answer that question? Sure, you have that freedom(freedom of speech) but should you be answering personal questions for other people?
Answer the question? As you said, I didn't answer the question.

I asked you a question that was in reference to a question you had asked of someone else.
Posted November 23, 2013
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monkeydelarge: Ok, most feminists strive for equality, not female dominance but
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MaximumBunny: Do they now? I'm not sure what dimension you're from but take me with you!

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zotofmu: For those interested, RPS posted a follow-up to the original article, which seems to address many of the topics brought up in this tread, i.e. "it's just a game", "no political stuff in games, please", "games are art, don't criticize", "don't censor", etc.
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MaximumBunny: Here's a quote from the end of it:

" Oh, and here’s the real kicker: this stuff matters in MOBAs. Tangibly and overtly so, no less. MOBAs like LoL and DOTA are infamous for their often toxic communities, and women – unsurprisingly though very depressingly – get the special insults. “Jokes” about their inherent inability to play well, very specific swears, crude references to body parts, “humor” about weight, propositions – all of that good stuff. And again, while scantily clad, disempowered female character designs alone aren’t going to “turn” someone sexist, they do contribute to an environment in which it feels more natural to disregard or otherwise demean women. "

So basically, calling a female player a c*** or b**** is wrong because it demeans women but calling a guy a d*** or f****t is fine because men are men. The only difference he's implying here is that men can take it, women cannot, which again is the anti-equality that people claim feminism strives for (see first quote of post). And this is the kind of political bullshit that everyone is hating on them for, Mr. zoto. The reason feminism is silly is the same reason menism (men fighting for man rights to not be called male slurs and to be treated fairly by the oppressed women who continually bash them for being men) would be silly. Everyone's equal until they make themselves otherwise.

Not to say that there aren't places in the world where oppression is real and not just a fashion statement, but fixing broken cultures/societies/countries isn't something we're equipped to do yet.
You might want to look at this . I've linked you to the death threats page, but there are plenty of other unpleasant categories. Like [url=http://fatuglyorslutty.com/category/sandwich-making-101/]get back to the kitchen ones. I've googled, but I can't seem to find a similar website for men. I don't know about you, but I think the comment in the article has a very valid point.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by FearfulSymmetry
Posted November 23, 2013
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Kennethor: So you mean that I as a white male know exactly how it is to be a black woman and how it feels to be violated in different ways by the society? Are you serious?
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stoicsentry: What I mean is that you're under no obligation to worry about how others might feel or what they might think or believe if they make no effort to appeal to facts outside of themselves. But if they do, that's just fine.

If we follow your "I don't know exactly how it is" idea to its inevitable conclusion, then where does that leave us? Why limit it to race and gender? How about nationality/ethnicity, disability or non-disability, fat or thin, tall or short, Christian or Jew or atheist? The conclusion is that no one can judge the thoughts or ideas of anyone else.

^ Yes? Why is that so hard to understand?

You don't know much about what it means to a feminist do you? You better look that up.
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stoicsentry: Which statement did I make that indicates I don't know anything about feminism?

As I understood from what you wrote, you basically said that feminists don't work for equality. If thats what you meant, it is a false statement.

If people could think logically and see themselves in other peoples shoes the world would not be as it is.
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stoicsentry: Some people don't and therefore, I shouldn't suggest that people *should*? I don't follow.
Posted November 23, 2013
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Narakir: Everyone can be oppressed, its surely not white males that are the most oppressed in countries that pretends to be more advanced in terms of civil rights.
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keeveek: But what does the "mos oppressed" mean? This is not a contest. Racism is equally bad, it doesn't matter which group is subjected to racism the most. There is racism against whites in USA too, but obviously not that widespread like racism against blacks.

Racism is always bad, even if it's a marginal thing for some ethnicities.
Oppression isn't always straightforward. Its also a lot of non-explicit things, like baring the entry to some jobs, minimizing earned status because "She/he was lucky", not begin allowed the same pay as others, or pointed out almost automatically when a problem occurs. Are white men subject to these problem in Europe and the US ? Because I've never witnessed this here.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by Narakir
Posted November 23, 2013
Wasnt there a time when review sites were all about just reviewing games instead of talking about ethical, moral and other issues in games?. How many people are going to not buy X game just cause Y company said Z about so and so issue?. I kind of get sick of this sort of thing. People blow it out of proportion
Posted November 23, 2013
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nijuu: Wasnt there a time when review sites were all about just reviewing games instead of talking about ethical, moral and other issues in games?. How many people are going to not buy X game just cause Y company said Z about so and so issue?. I kind of get sick of this sort of thing. People blow it out of proportion
Since when is RPS just a review site?
Posted November 23, 2013
Now, I've been able to find two articles bashing games for over-sexualized female characters on RPS. Yet, I could not find a review of The Cat Lady - game with meaningful, almost asexual female character.
Posted November 23, 2013
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zotofmu: I'll admit that I don't play in the MOBA community, but is it really rife with special insults for men (without regard for sexual orientation): "jokes" about their inherent inability to play well due to their gender, very specific swears loaded with centuries of sexual and social oppression, crude reference to their unique body parts, "humor" about weight, propositions?

I think it's disingenuous to imply that men and women should react equally the same to insults and hostility when they don't receive nearly an equal level of such. Most men simply don't face the kind or amount of abuse that women do in gaming.

To my knowledge, feminism (or other such movements), don't say everyone should be equal. They merely say everyone should be treated equally. And that is not what is happening.
Everyone's insulted equally in online games. But instead of focusing on the problems of insults themselves being the issue (why should insults be around at all?) people are trying to turn it into a sexist/feminist agenda. That's what makes the entire argument BS and why RPS and Kotaku are idiots.

People will always use whatever insults they believe will hurt the person the most, whether it's based on the size of their genitals, their insecurities, their gender/race...but those are details and who cares about the details when a girl gamer is being attacked? White knights to the rescue! And it's not because it's a damsel in distress, no no no...that would be sexist. Gender neutral person in distress who happens to be female and thusly needing of help! Forget about the racists, homophobes, and general mean people. It's the sexists that are wrong with the world!

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zotofmu: So... don't bother trying to make things better? We can't make it perfect, so just ignore it?
You're welcomed to try to reform/erase Shariah and similar primitive laws from the world if you're able to. I never said to ignore it, but I don't see an army behind you ready to die to make it happen. Maybe try holding up a sign on a local news station? That usually works.

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FearfulSymmetry: You might want to look at this website. I've linked you to the death threats page, but there are plenty of other unpleasant categories. Like get back to the kitchen ones. I've googled, but I can't seem to find a similar website for men. I don't know about you, but I think the comment in the article has a very valid point.
Kill and rape threats aren't anything new, it's just that females are more offended about it than men and they put it up everywhere to make it a headline. Guys get death threats and threats about what type of things the tantrum kid would like to do with the body all of the time. It's much easier to find women complaining about it than men though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO5OTaq-mpw

A friend of mine has a threat where the killer was going to find him in 6 years or so. That one was pretty hilarious. As guys, we don't take these things as an insult to our gender and/or life insecurities. Like the video I linked, that's a typical guy response. You either learn to have thick skin or you live your life offended by everything.
Posted November 23, 2013
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nijuu: Wasnt there a time when review sites were all about just reviewing games instead of talking about ethical, moral and other issues in games?. How many people are going to not buy X game just cause Y company said Z about so and so issue?. I kind of get sick of this sort of thing. People blow it out of proportion
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Siannah: Since when is RPS just a review site?
What exactly is it then?
Posted November 23, 2013
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monkeydelarge: So because a personal question is asked in public for someone who is not you, you should answer that question? Sure, you have that freedom(freedom of speech) but should you be answering personal questions for other people?
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stoicsentry: Answer the question? As you said, I didn't answer the question.

I asked you a question that was in reference to a question you had asked of someone else.
That makes no sense. Why would you ask me if the PA report is libertarian? I don't even know what the PA report is.
Posted November 23, 2013
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MaximumBunny: People will always use whatever insults they believe will hurt the person the most, whether it's based on the size of their genitals, their insecurities, their gender/race...but those are details and who cares about the details when a girl gamer is being attacked?
Oh, this reminds me :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63DORtkeIjQ&t=2m53s
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)RockPaperSocialjustice is at it again(841 posts)(841 posts)
(841 posts)