It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
StingingVelvet: I think that's a very glass-half-empty way of looking at it. Like I said above, in Russia, Georgia and other countries the prices are MUCH lower than in the US. I don't see anyone in the US demanding Russian pricing. We realize the two economies are very different and you can't charge US prices in Russia for entertainment.
Yes, but in that case you realize Russians also make much less money on the average than Americans, and that is probably the main reason for selling the games with lower margins there. Do Americans similarly make much less money than Europeans?

I think monkeydelarge's example was spot on: how would you feel for being charged considerably higher margins by the same store, just because you are from somewhere else?

Naturally everyone makes their own mind if they are fine having to pay higher margins than someone else. I don't consider games as a necessity, so I may still disagree with game publishers charging me higher margins just so that they can offer the same product for lower margins for Russian and Nigerian gamers, and try to prevent me from getting if for that lower margin as well.

I was also thinking should the rich (and niggardly) people be allowed to join soup lines which are mainly meant for unemployed and very poor people, but then I consider food to be a necessity, something that games are not. So there I feel it is fine to treat people differently.
Post edited June 08, 2014 by timppu
avatar
P1na: When you sell to the world as a whole, like you do on the internet, I think setting up a single price based on what the product costed is fair. You can pay it? Cool. You can't? Tough. It costs what it costs. Well, that's where the sales and the different price points a product can go through come in.
This. If you can't buy a brand-new AAA title for $60, then wait for the a sale, or buy some cheaper (older or indie) game instead.

Games aren't a necessity anyway. Should all people all around the world be able to buy sports cars as well? I don't think there is anything wrong with poorer people having to buy cheaper cars, or even no car at all. I don't feel I should be charged higher costs for cars just so that the car dealers can sell the same cars with lower margins to someone else.

Plus, if some person in a poor country can afford a PC to play Watch Dogs or The Witcher 3... then I am unsure if he really is that poor to begin with.
avatar
JMich: Don't forget the psychology of the prices as well. Having a round price of ~€5 or ~€10 means that you know you give one paper bill and don't expect change in return. This was seen in the first months of Euro currency in Greece, mostly with the tips we left.
€1 was equal to ~340 drachmas, with the coins of the drachmas being 20, 50 and 100 (the larger ones), while paper bills start at 100, 200 and 500. The idea of tipping 20 drachmas was seen as been a cheapskate, so the usual was 50 or 100 (or "keep the change"). Once euro currency started circulating, force of habit meant that the usual tip became €0.50 or €1, effectively triple what it was, simply because people left the highest coin denomination they got as change.
You forgot about the 500 drachmas coin. ;-)
avatar
HypersomniacLive: You forgot about the 500 drachmas coin. ;-)
Commemorative limited edition coins, so I think mostly similar to American Eagle coins (half and double included). Legal tender, but reluctantly used as such.
Oh, wasn't aware of this fact.

Guess it's like what Coelcanth and Maighstir are talking about then.

avatar
Tarnicus: A couple of interesting articles exploring regional pricing differences from an Australian perspective:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/why-australian-game-prices-will-not-drop/1100-6401518/

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/11/why-do-videogames-cost-so-much/

Regardless of the reasons stated by all parties involved, this comment in particular jumped out to me in the GameSpot article:

"People complain so much [about game prices in Australia] but they still go out and buy the games. It's a lot of noise but very little action. If consumers got fed up with paying so much for games in this country, they'd stop buying them altogether, both at retail and digitally. But that hasn't happened on a mass scale yet."

I haven't bought a full price retail game in Australia since the 90s. Then again I haven't eaten a steak dinner since 1983 so perhaps am an oddity when it comes to my consumer habits :P
And that's the problem. People like to complain, but don't take any action against things. In case of regional pricing here on GOG, it's cool that they have the fair pricing package. That's alleviating the situation, somehow. Otherwise you could only take a stand by not buying the game. But of course that wouldn't work, because some countries have more advantageous deals than others (so only the Russians would be buying the game, I guess :P).
avatar
P1na: When you sell to the world as a whole, like you do on the internet, I think setting up a single price based on what the product costed is fair. You can pay it? Cool. You can't? Tough. It costs what it costs. Well, that's where the sales and the different price points a product can go through come in.
avatar
timppu: This. If you can't buy a brand-new AAA title for $60, then wait for the a sale, or buy some cheaper (older or indie) game instead.

Games aren't a necessity anyway. Should all people all around the world be able to buy sports cars as well? I don't think there is anything wrong with poorer people having to buy cheaper cars, or even no car at all. I don't feel I should be charged higher costs for cars just so that the car dealers can sell the same cars with lower margins to someone else.

Plus, if some person in a poor country can afford a PC to play Watch Dogs or The Witcher 3... then I am unsure if he really is that poor to begin with.
I've always believed games are a necessity if you desire a happy life. Games don't keep your body alive like food, water, and shelter but they keep your mind and soul alive... To say games are not a necessity is like saying, comfort, friends, family and love is not a necessity. Imagine a life without those things. Such a life would be hell for all except the most Spartan kinds of people. Have you ever watched the TV series, Naked and Afraid?

And having a PC isn't really a sign of not being poor because that person could of saved up for that PC for a long time or received that PC as a gift from a loved one or purchased their PC with a credit card(in the USA, it's easy to get a credit card but I'm not sure about other countries). My point is, there are many ways nowadays for a poor person to easily get their hands on a new PC. How can they afford internet? A lot of poor people share their internet with other people and pay only a little bit of money every month. Some people just use their neighbor's wireless for free, with permission or without... Fortunately for poor people, AAA titles usually go on sale a year later because not everyone likes low budget games or games that are too old.
Post edited June 08, 2014 by monkeydelarge
avatar
monkeydelarge: I've always believed games are a necessity if you desire a happy life. Games don't keep your body alive like food, water, and shelter but they keep your mind and soul alive... To say games are not a necessity is like saying, comfort, friends, family and love is not a necessity. Imagine a life without those things.
Not a necessity in the same sense as food or shelter. I've spend many many years in my life happily without games, e.g. back when I got fed up with Amiga gaming and sold my Amiga (I was completely out of the gaming for some time after that, until buying a gaming PC). I'm sure everyone knows people who don't play games at all, yet seem quite happy with their lives.

Sure PC games can be a nice past time providing you pleasure, like many things in life.
avatar
StingingVelvet: <OP>
You are working on the assumption that these increased prices are there because of the supply and demand state of things, and the affluence of the area. In fact the supply of local services in the UK is more expensive than the US because they are taxed more. Government is bigger in the UK and in Europe generally, more is provided in terms of health care etc. and that comes from taxation. This is why your steak was more expensive, they were passing on the taxation to the consumer.

Games developed outside of the UK are not subject to those costs. So why are those costs still being passed on?
avatar
monkeydelarge: I've always believed games are a necessity if you desire a happy life. Games don't keep your body alive like food, water, and shelter but they keep your mind and soul alive... To say games are not a necessity is like saying, comfort, friends, family and love is not a necessity. Imagine a life without those things.
avatar
timppu: Not a necessity in the same sense as food or shelter. I've spend many many years in my life happily without games, e.g. back when I got fed up with Amiga gaming and sold my Amiga (I was completely out of the gaming for some time after that, until buying a gaming PC). I'm sure everyone knows people who don't play games at all, yet seem quite happy with their lives.

Sure PC games can be a nice past time providing you pleasure, like many things in life.
That's you and that's them. Not me and not a lot of other people in this world. Of course, people who aren't gamers can be happy without games. I'm not really into football so I can live a happy life without football. There's people out there who get off while watching the grass grow or watching the sun set. Of course, they don't need games to be happy. We are all different from each other. We don't all share the same needs for our minds and souls. The fact that we are all human beings, doesn't mean shit. If you take two people, they could be as different from each other as a frog and a snake. I find people who can live a happy life without games to be very alien like a creature from outer space... That's why I would never think, what they need and what is nothing less than a luxury for them is what I need and what is nothing less than a luxury for me.
Post edited June 08, 2014 by monkeydelarge
I'm not arguing Europeans should be charged more, at all. To be clear I am saying 60 euros doesn't seem to actually be "more" since everything else in Europe, as far as I could tell, was a $1 = 1euro situation.

Yes if you convert currency a euro is like 1.5 dollars, or whatever. I get that. However if euros are treated the same as dollars in euro countries, the social/economic systems are the same, i.e. a steak dinner is 20 in both, a movie ticket is 8 in both, a CD album is 10 in both, etc... then games being 60 in both makes sense.

I'm not an economist but I know economies are very different, you can't just convert euros to dollars and make a direct comparison.
avatar
StingingVelvet: I'm not arguing Europeans should be charged more, at all. To be clear I am saying 60 euros doesn't seem to actually be "more" since everything else in Europe, as far as I could tell, was a $1 = 1euro situation.

Yes if you convert currency a euro is like 1.5 dollars, or whatever. I get that. However if euros are treated the same as dollars in euro countries, the social/economic systems are the same, i.e. a steak dinner is 20 in both, a movie ticket is 8 in both, a CD album is 10 in both, etc... then games being 60 in both makes sense.

I'm not an economist but I know economies are very different, you can't just convert euros to dollars and make a direct comparison.
Yes, it does make sense for game publishers to charge Europeans 60 euro for a 60 dollar game because Europeans are used to high prices due to high taxes, like wpegg said above. So why not try to sneak in your $60 game for 60 euro and hope Europeans won't notice that you are ripping them off. If all you care about is money, why throw away that opportunity... Basically charging Europeans 60 euro for AAA games made in the USA, is a douche bag move and that is why GOG had so many fans until they gave in to regional pricing.
Post edited June 08, 2014 by monkeydelarge
avatar
StingingVelvet: <OP>
avatar
wpegg: You are working on the assumption that these increased prices are there because of the supply and demand state of things, and the affluence of the area. In fact the supply of local services in the UK is more expensive than the US because they are taxed more. Government is bigger in the UK and in Europe generally, more is provided in terms of health care etc. and that comes from taxation. This is why your steak was more expensive, they were passing on the taxation to the consumer.

Games developed outside of the UK are not subject to those costs. So why are those costs still being passed on?
Thanks for reminding me about the taxes in Europe. Much higher than taxes in the USA. You reminding me, forced me to rewrite my previous post.
Post edited June 08, 2014 by monkeydelarge
avatar
monkeydelarge: snip
Monkey, your necessities by personal choice are not necessities at a generic human level. If you generalize particulars, then everything becomes a necessity. I'm sure I can find someone in the world that will feel about it as you feel about games.

Even stuff like reproduction already strictly speaking does not count a necessity, unless you want to look at our species rather than us as individuals. Shelter which comes up in these discussions I also feel is debatable, after all shelter near the equator or in scandinavia is very different. Also some people prefer to live under bridges and not work. And subprime mortgage crisis, etc...

You seriously want pleasure to be some kind of universal human right? I feel your constitution actually has a nice take on it, it's pursuit of happiness, not just happiness. Also to actually answer your underlying point, much as I can't criticize others for taking pleasure from objects (like games) I think we'd be in a much better place if we tried to get pleasure from making other people happy. A nice circle jerk of sorts so to speak ;)
avatar
monkeydelarge: snip
avatar
Brasas: Monkey, your necessities by personal choice are not necessities at a generic human level. If you generalize particulars, then everything becomes a necessity. I'm sure I can find someone in the world that will feel about it as you feel about games.

Even stuff like reproduction already strictly speaking does not count a necessity, unless you want to look at our species rather than us as individuals. Shelter which comes up in these discussions I also feel is debatable, after all shelter near the equator or in scandinavia is very different. Also some people prefer to live under bridges and not work. And subprime mortgage crisis, etc...

You seriously want pleasure to be some kind of universal human right? I feel your constitution actually has a nice take on it, it's pursuit of happiness, not just happiness. Also to actually answer your underlying point, much as I can't criticize others for taking pleasure from objects (like games) I think we'd be in a much better place if we tried to get pleasure from making other people happy. A nice circle jerk of sorts so to speak ;)
I disagree with you. There is no generic human level(not all of us are processed people straight out of the factory). And my necessities are not necessities by personal choice. I have no choice when it comes to who I am. I was born this way. I was destined to be this way. If you need something for your mind and soul. If you love something. Then it is a necessity. It is as simple as that. People can not live without their minds and souls... I never said pleasure is a universal right because the people in power decide what we have rights to...not me. :) But what is a life that is so fucking miserable, you want someone to put 1000 bullets into your head just to make sure there is no chance of coming back to this hell hole world? Who are people to decide what is a necessity and what is a luxury for everyone on this planet when everyone is different from each other? Who are people to decide what I love and what I don't love? You could live on as a mindless and soulless vegetable zombie without your mind and soul but I don't consider that living.

Do you know that if some babies are unloved, they just die? Human beings are more than animals. Food, shelter, oxygen and water is not enough for us. Now that I think about it some more, even Spartan Warriors needed more than food, shelter, oxygen and water. And thinking humans need only what animals need is wrong. And treating humans like animals is just evil in my book.

Shelter is not debatable because there is rain. When your body is soaked in rain, your body's temperature will drop to dangerous levels. Even if you live near the equator, rain can soak your body and lower your body's temperature to dangerous levels.

PS
Of course, I want everyone to have the right to all their basic needs but that will never happen. A) The people in power don't give a shit about the people in this world and B) some people's idea of happiness = other people suffering. So not going to happen, ever. Such a world is pure fantasy, I know.
Post edited June 08, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Where were you staying during your travels? Some bluecollar neighborhood or some nice area in a big city or a tourist location? What kind of place in the US were you comparing the prices to? Something like Manhattan, NY, or some regular midwestern town in which you know your way around, etc.?

I'm asking these questions, because regions differ and even when talking about the same region/town it's very easy to overpay for the same things when you are in a foreign country on vacation, as a tourist usually doesn't know his/her way around like the locals do. For example, where I live, there are two restaurants about a block apart, one sells a steak dinner for 7 Euros, the other for closer to 20 Euros, guess which one you won't find tourist in and which one you very likely will. So, while prices might appear much more expensive, locals won't nessesary be paying that much more on many goods because they know where to go or they live in a cheaper region where tourists are unlikely to ever find themselfs. The locals that you will find at the expensive places are usually those that do make more money then the majority.

That being said, I do not know how the prices for goods are in the UK right now, for all I know prices generally could differ that much between the UK and the US. However, I highly doubt that they really do differ that much ( not saying they won't differ a bit though) for the majority of goods when comparing similar regions with one another while leaving tourist drawing places out of the equation. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though ;)
Post edited June 08, 2014 by K_1269