EDIT: GOG supplied an answer: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/refunds_and_multiplayer_drm/post43


Regarding GOG's new refund policy - If we buy a game that uses account-based DRM for multiplayer, and that is not disclosed on the GOG store page, would that qualify for a refund?

I ask because I recently learned that Battle Worlds Kronos, which was previously on my wishlist, cannot be played in multiplayer without creating and logging into a King-Art account. Currently the store page only says that you must enter a CD key for multiplayer, but that implies (to me anyway) that multiplayer will be permanently available, and does not address issues people like me have with account requirements, such as being at the mercy of King-Art as to whether you will continue to be able to play the game in the future. This in addition to concerns like having to agree to EULA's, TOS's, and Privacy Policies that usually involve invasive monitoring of some sort.

Since I expect GOG to release more of these types of multiplayer-DRM games as indicated by the survey from a while back, I'd like to get clarification ahead of time.

I guess your best bet is to directly contact support, explain the situation and ask if that case is eligible for a refund.

I could do that on an individual basis, but I'd rather not have to, because then I'm relying on a particular support rep to issue a refund as a show of "generosity" that may or may not ever happen again. That is what Valve does on Steam and it's useless to me as a customer. Plus then GOG wouldn't have any motivation to include accurate information on the store pages as they should (also a problem on Steam).

I'm just trying to find out what their policy is on this. If they don't have one, that's fine and I can simply skip out on multiplayer GOG games.

I think you misunderstood me. I was not suggesting to contact support and ask about just specifically Battle Worlds Kronos, but what their refund policy is when there's a thrird-party account requirement that is not clearly stated on the game card. And while you're at it, make a strong suggestion that such information absolutely needs to be part of the games cards, both for potential buyers to make an informed decision and for GOG to not get support tickets about the omission of the info and related refund requests.

And I'm pretty sure that no support rep would commit actions that are against official GOG policies, i.e. if GOG's refund policy doesn't cover such cases, no support rep would be allowed to issue a refund as a generosity gesture, they'd have to stick to the policy.

As for the "then GOG wouldn't have any motivation to include accurate information on the store pages as they should" part - rest assured that even if it was seen as a single individual case, GOG (support) is good with things like this (keep in mind that a support ticket about the case in question would be forwarded to the appropriate department/ team) and they would make it a point to include such information on the game cards.

I don't know how Steam and its support handles things, but it's best to not make comparisons nor base your expectations of GOG support on your experience with other digital stores.

I really don't see how else you'd solve this case, as all the public available information on their refund policy is , [url=https://secure.gog.com/support/policies/terms_of_use]here (under Final sale) and this thread. Also, this post by TET may be relevant.


And now that I think about it, I have a question regarding Battle Worlds Kronos - was the account required from the beginning or could it be something that was decided later on (i.e. a potential change from CD key only to account + CD key)?

Lack of information on the gamecard could be a somewhat legit argument I guess.

Other than that though, if the card had clearly shown what's what the only way you'd get a refund is if you hadn't downloaded the game yet, or it was broken and after working with support you still can't get it working.

Common sense implies for me that for using the multiplayer part of a game you must login into some
server aka create an account there (if you don't play via Lan)
Oh, and no multiplayer is permanently available.

I'm not certain, but I would assume the account was always a requirement, mostly because it wouldn't be a small change from the programming side to switch from a key check system to a full account system. Certainly, the change would've been made before it went on sale, since adding additional DRM layers to a game would not be well-received by many people.

I'm hoping GOG's incomplete notice on the store page is simply a mistake, which is another reason why I made the post.

I've been with GOG from the beginning and have never had a bad experience with support that I can recall, but since this is about policy and not tech or account support, I'm not all that hopeful. Regardless, I'll send a support ticket to GOG and update here if I get a clear answer. I just hoped one of the community managers could've checked and responded here to avoid the additional delay. There are many, many games that have permanent, DRM-free internet multiplayer. In fact, the vast majority of PC games released pre-2000 ("good old games") fall into that category, including most if not all of the Doom, Quake, and Unreal games.

Account requirements only started happening very recently, and they are virtually never required for the multiplayer to actually function; they are employed as DRM measures. So my common sense would say that multiplayer games on a DRM-free service like GOG would not have such restrictions.

Aren't those games server run by players?
And so didn't need any code to enter. Its a feature of the game.
If i read something about a CD-Key that means something like Battle.net...and an account there.

Right, those games do not require permission from a 3rd-party to play multiplayer - players may run and configure servers whenever and however they want. Thus, those games have permanent, DRM-free multiplayer - it will always be available for whoever wants to use it.

Personally, if I read that a game has a CD key, it means that the verification is entirely local, checked by the game itself and not a third party, and so there are no concerns about such a third party collecting my personal data or preventing me from being able to play the game for any reason they choose. Both of these are issues when we are required to create and log into accounts.

People may read "CD key required" in different ways, but for those of us who would like clarification, I don't think it's too much to ask for GOG to include a small statement on the store page that makes the account requirement known.

The reason I'm not hopeful is because there is a subtle but noticeable "push" in the games industry for games that have third-party account requirements not be seen as containing DRM - "DRM" being a fairly toxic label for games to be labelled with, for good reason.

GOG has built their reputation on games that are 100% DRM-free, so when they released their customer survey a while back with a question regarding the acceptability of account-based multiplayer DRM, that seemed to me like a clear signal they are trying to change their definition of "DRM-free" to be more in line with what the rest of the industry wants. Especially since they sent out a follow-up survey with a rephrased version of that same question when the initial response wasn't what they were hoping for.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I consider it likely that the disclaimer store page for Battle Worlds is exactly how GOG and King-Art want it to read, as one of the first GOG games to have multiplayer DRM without them calling it DRM (I think the new Rise of the Triad may also have the same account requirement, and if so it's similarly missing a disclaimer on the store page. But I'm not certain because I don't own the game.)

And yes, I removed Battle Worlds from my wishlist after I found out about the DRM, but fortunately before I purchased it.

Ok then, so basically all the debate we've had so far regarding the refund policy is quite theoretical as - if I understood you correctly - not only have you not bought Battle Worlds Kronos but you don't intend to buy any game that has similar requirements for multiplayer.

In this case, your ticket to support should focus on demanding that the games cards make clear that such requirements apply. Because that's the actual problem in your case - you want to be able to make an informed decision about a potential purchase, and rightfully so. If and how you're going to argue about the DRM side of things, is up to you. You could then also add a question about eligible refunds in relation to the omission of essential info.
But starting with the refund policy is, imho, not the way to do it since you have no actual claim.

I'm sorry if I sound a bit blunt, but I don't play nor care for mulitplayer so I haven't noticed this issue, nor do I pay attention to the specifics or requirements for multiplayer. I do agree though that it's important, if not essential, to provide all game related information and requirements in the game card.


One more question - is it possible that account requirement exist because multiplayer content is handled exclusively on their end (i.e. no King-Art servers, no multiplayer portion of the game)?

That is correct, as it's been explained to me by a Steam forum member. When King-Art takes the servers down, the multiplayer will be gone for everyone. And as with other account-based multiplayer games, even while the servers are up, the publisher reserves the right to forbid you from playing at all for any reason they decide.

The key point to me is that it is not a technical necessity. Just as so many other games have done, King-Art could allow players to connect directly via IP or run their own servers. Instead they spent the time and money to set up their account system as a DRM measure to prevent pirates from playing, and to collect information about players (email addresses and whatever else their privacy policy permits) for marketing and advertising purposes.

I appreciate the advice about how to word the support ticket. I'm generally presenting it as a request for information rather than as a problem I have. Hopefully they'll provide a clear enough answer.

You see now, I'm not one that can effectively argue about technical necessities or not due to my inexperience. And that's also the reason for me wording my question rather poorly - or I just don't understand your answer. Let me try again, please :-)

By "multiplayer content handled exclusively on their end" I'm asking if the actual multiplayer game content is on their servers. When one installs the game is there actual multiplayer game content stored locally on their HDD and which can be played by connecting directly via IP?


Forgive me for probably sounding ignorant now (and I may be still wording this completely wrong), but if the answer to my latter question is "no", then the account (in which the CD key is used, from what I understood from a post in the game's forum here on GOG) is used by King-Art to check if all the players accessing content on their servers are legit ones or not.
This is likely done for the reasons you mention, and yes it's a bit silly since the single player portion is still DRM-free - unless the focus and gameplay value is put into the multiplayer portion, i.e. the single player portion is rather negligible and of low value to bother with.
If the answer is "yes", then the previous couple of lines of my comment apply even more.

Regarding the support ticket - I think you'll get a fairly clear reply, but if it's a sales rep that responds, expect some of the usual PR talk as well, it's in their nature and job description, they can't help it ;-P

Just out of curiosity - do you consider the Steam model and service to be DRM or not?

That's nonsense, plenty of games have an architecture where one player hosts the game (in other words they run the server) and other players connect. They might require a CD-key for multiplayer, but it's just to make sure there are as many separate copies of the game as there are players.

I agree with the OP, CD-key required and account required are very different things.