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General discussion (archive)Questions about being an expatriate... anyone doing this?(36 posts)(36 posts)
(36 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 28, 2014
Is there anyone here currently living as an expatriate (temporary or otherwise) in a foreign country?

What do you do when rent costs more than income (if any)? Do you have a full time job, or are you self-employed? Do your parents occasionally have to help you out?

I've been thinking of living in another country for maybe a year or two, learning a language and whatnot, but these logistical quandaries make me stop in my tracks and hesitate to actually do it.

I'm guessing the country probably also affects difficulty. I can probably do this with less uncertainty if I chose New Zealand/Australia/Canada (same language, cultures aren't as distant to one other), but if it were France/Japan/Iceland/Turkey/Hong Kong/etc. where the language is very different and the employment laws are more strict about non-citizens, I can imagine some expatriates would be put into a zugzwang situation where they have no choice but to eventually pack their bags and go home after a mere few months.

Any advice?
Posted February 28, 2014
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solzariv: ...snip
Why would you choose a rent higher than your income? Isn't finding cheaper rental or increasing income a possibility? Why not?

I'd say the most typical answers are share the costs by getting a flat with more people and for the income to leverage language or hobbies for part times.
Posted February 28, 2014
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solzariv: ...snip
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Brasas: Why would you choose a rent higher than your income? Isn't finding cheaper rental or increasing income a possibility? Why not?

I'd say the most typical answers are share the costs by getting a flat with more people and for the income to leverage language or hobbies for part times.
I think what he means is that when go to that country, you need a place to live first. Then you can apply for jobs. Then there's the risks that it might take too long and all money is eaten up, or the job is not enough to cover the expenses.

The only thing that can protect you from that is getting job and roof from a network that cares for this kind of stuff. You'd get a badly payed job and live in dorm, but could go from there.

Another option is to get some savings and move to a country where living is dirst cheap in comparison (through exchange rates). I know some people who went to Thailand this way.

Third way (most difficult) is to find a job in the US that involves operations abroad.
Posted March 01, 2014
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toxicTom: ... snip
Well, the only way to absolutely avoid risks in life is dying.

Seriously though, I hope the OP offers a bit more detail as I'd be more than willing to discuss.
The financial is not the main downside I see, this type of decision helps one realize how independent you really can be, but it usually means you weaken a lot of deep emotional and relational ties (to people, places, etc...).
Posted March 01, 2014
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solzariv: Is there anyone here currently living as an expatriate (temporary or otherwise) in a foreign country?

What do you do when rent costs more than income (if any)? Do you have a full time job, or are you self-employed? Do your parents occasionally have to help you out?
A bit hard to reply without a little more specifics, however in general yes I've lived in another country as an ex-pat. Tax was 55% of my income and rent ate roughly another 25%. Not a lot left to live on. However, you will usually be able to find people in a similar situation, and possibly find someone to share a house/apartment with. Good contact points are always embassies / consular stations as they ofen can point you towards a community of fellow countrymen.

Now to get the full blown experience of being an ex-pat, you may not want to spend too much time with people from the same place as you (especially when trying to learn a foreign language), but to avoid the problem of income < expenses this can be a starting point.

Please provide some more details, am sure there are people here that can offer advice
Posted March 01, 2014
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solzariv: I can imagine some expatriates would be put into a zugzwang situation where they have no choice but to eventually pack their bags and go home after a mere few months.

Any advice?
As an expat you need to be flexible (different cultures operate in different ways which sometimes is VERY frustrating) and as far as finances go, it depends on your qualifications.

I've been an expat for more than half of my life and I have no intention of ever going back to the country where I was born. Right now, I'm Vietnam based -- love it here, but I've lived a little all over.

Basically, it boils down to how adventurous you are. Have you traveled a lot? Do you speak more than one language? Depending on the country, you might have difficulty finding a job if you aren't fluent in the language. You kind of need to know French to work in France, but for Hong Kong, English is adequate.

Also, don't rent a place that costs more than your income...
Posted March 01, 2014
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solzariv: Any advice?
Every country will be different. But for the record I've been a self-sustaining an expat in Japan for over 13 years. Although I will admit that I know earn significantly less than I did when I first came here, but that's mainly due to a boss who keeps messing me around.

If you are considering Japan though, you will need to graduate from University first as holding a degree is an immigration requirement. No degree means you cannot legally work, with the exception of a (very limited) working holiday visa. That is, if those are still available as they used to be exploited a fair bit -- to the extent that those holding them were illegally working more hours than they are permitted and with such a visa, working within the limited hours really wouldn't sustain you.

As for renting in Japan, that is also a challenge. You'll have to find a landlord that doesn't mind renting to a foreigner and you'll need several months rent in advance (3 to 6 months) in addition to any security deposits. Landlords aren't keen on renting to foreigners. This is because they are left with the impression that foreigners will be noisy, will not follow rules (such as when and how to dispose of rubbish) and are likely to leave the country without paying owed rent -- but this is because many used to do just that. A case of those before ruining it for everyone else.
Posted March 01, 2014
I lived in the Republic of Georgia for a year. It was a good experience. It makes you both value your home more and also gain a more worldwide perspective.

My biggest issue was food honestly. You're going to miss your home food a lot, assuming the culture you move to is different in that regard. Communication wasn't really an issue, it was kind of fun working out things with people and learning a new way to communicate.
Posted March 01, 2014
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bansama: As for renting in Japan, that is also a challenge. You'll have to find a landlord that doesn't mind renting to a foreigner and you'll need several months rent in advance (3 to 6 months) in addition to any security deposits. Landlords aren't keen on renting to foreigners. This is because they are left with the impression that foreigners will be noisy, will not follow rules (such as when and how to dispose of rubbish) and are likely to leave the country without paying owed rent -- but this is because many used to do just that. A case of those before ruining it for everyone else.
Well, in Japan too there's now (at least in the Kansai area, that is Osaka-Kyoto-Kobe) more and more real estate agencies dedicated to foreigners. Of course, you might pay a little more than what the normal rate would be, but you would be most of the time able to share the flat with one or more roommates and you wouldn't have to pay for the "key money", that gift you give to the landlord for the honor to inhabit in his flat... :/

So, finding a reasonable flat is not so hard in Japan, if you first try to look at classifieds in free newspapers for foreigners.
Posted March 01, 2014
An example from Japan, but every major city in a foreign country may have a hotel like this:
http://www.backpackerbecki.com/staying-in-a-capsule-hotel-in-japan-my-one-night-experience-in-tokyo.html

And things turn out really bad, there is another option:
http://www.philforhumanity.com/Homeless_Survival_Guide.html

quote:
[...] join a gym that has a full restroom, toilet paper, soap, towels, and showers. This should not cost you more than $20 per month. Preferably a gym that is open for 24 hours a day [...]
Post edited March 01, 2014 by rpgamer381
Posted March 01, 2014
Oh yeah, lack of showers took a lot of getting used to in Georgia as well. I doubt that would be an issue in most Western countries though.
Posted March 01, 2014
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bansama: If you are considering Japan though, you will need to graduate from University first as holding a degree is an immigration requirement.
Has there been a change of laws in the recent years? A friend of mine worked in Japan for several years (at Square-Enix) and without a degree. But that was in the early-mid 00's. But it could also be that he was employed officially at an out-of-Japan branch of SqE. I'd have to ask him.
Posted March 01, 2014
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bansama: If you are considering Japan though, you will need to graduate from University first as holding a degree is an immigration requirement.
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toxicTom: Has there been a change of laws in the recent years? A friend of mine worked in Japan for several years (at Square-Enix) and without a degree. But that was in the early-mid 00's. But it could also be that he was employed officially at an out-of-Japan branch of SqE. I'd have to ask him.
Although US - Mexico is the poster child, if you look enough you will see immigration control has been in the upswing since the financial crisis hit.

Closer to us, that is a huge part of the EU expansion slowdown - what with Romania, Bulgaria only recently getting Schengen rights. Turkey and Ukraine being put in the backburner, etc...

And in the rest of the world, Asia, Africa and South America countries always had much less permissive policies, less asylum, less quotas for basic job types, etc... if you can pay it's a whole different ballgame of course.

I assume with your friend he got the contract and then moved. If an employer is willing to go through the red tape it's all possible. It basically means even if you are not paying, your employer decided to do so somehow.
Posted March 01, 2014
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toxicTom: Has there been a change of laws in the recent years?
It was certainly a requirement in the early '00s. And I very much doubt it's changed. So either his being employed via Square overseas was enough to skirt that, or he was employed illegally; in that Square would have had to submit fraudulent documents to immigration.
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xa_chan: snip
Kansai seems to be a little more flexible. But I know around Kanto when I was looking for an apartment with my wife we were constantly being turned away. But it's likely the local language schools and the riff-raff they employed were the cause. Most of those are long since out of business though.

That said, when we did find an apartment, we were almost told to leave because my wife's mother (who is Japanese for the record) took it upon herself to cut down the landlord's bushes (who happened to have the apartment right next door). His wife was not pleased.

In the end, we lived there for a couple of years, with the landlord proclaiming surprise that he could never tell when we were home as he was expecting a lot more noise from us. So things worked out in the end..
Post edited March 01, 2014 by bansama
Posted March 01, 2014
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solzariv: Is there anyone here currently living as an expatriate (temporary or otherwise) in a foreign country?

What do you do when rent costs more than income (if any)? Do you have a full time job, or are you self-employed? Do your parents occasionally have to help you out?

I've been thinking of living in another country for maybe a year or two, learning a language and whatnot, but these logistical quandaries make me stop in my tracks and hesitate to actually do it.

I'm guessing the country probably also affects difficulty. I can probably do this with less uncertainty if I chose New Zealand/Australia/Canada (same language, cultures aren't as distant to one other), but if it were France/Japan/Iceland/Turkey/Hong Kong/etc. where the language is very different and the employment laws are more strict about non-citizens, I can imagine some expatriates would be put into a zugzwang situation where they have no choice but to eventually pack their bags and go home after a mere few months.

Any advice?
Some more details would be appreciated. Are there any countries you specifically have in mind? Why would you like to go there? What jobs would you be interested in finding?
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Questions about being an expatriate... anyone doing this?(36 posts)(36 posts)
(36 posts)