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KingofGnG: I've played the first screens on a friend's Xbox 360, and it seems to me an uninteresting reboot of a reboot (...) that should have been dead with The Warrior Within some years ago....
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captfitz: that's because all you do in the first 15 minutes is run on walls in a blocky tutorial canyon
if you still don't like it after you've at least gotten your first power plate, then tell me
it turns into this huge, sort-of-open-world game where your will do insane wall climbing/acrobatics, combat is entirely different and very fun, and the graphics and art are absolutely incredible, the best in a AAA game since shadow of the colossus

So... it's like [PROTOTYPE] but worse. Because you know, I played quite a lot of it and it wasn't fun. Because you don't die, it takes away the fun and the consequences you get for failing. It's like kindergarten where you do nothing wrong and the teachers praise you even when eat glue or whatever.
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captfitz: i knew a lot of people wouldn't like that once i started getting into the levels and realized it. PoP is not like other games, the fluid pacing and the rhythm that you noticed make it flow, you just have to let yourself be absorbed in it, it can be very mesmerizing.

I just don't enjoy that kind of mindless button pressing personally. I was hoping for another entry in the Prince of Persia action/adventure/platforming series, which is not what the game was. It has more in common with Guitar Hero than Sands of Time. Guitar Hero on no-fail mode.
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Gundato: Actually, to my knowledge, no securom that JUST checks the disc puts drivers on the system.
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DarrkPhoenix: To my knowledge it does. Unless the Securom registry entries on my computer are there just for fun.

Are you sure those aren't from the activation model ones? And are you sure that those are related to a driver (and not just using the registry to store information)? I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that only the activation-model one installs drivers and the like.
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Gundato: Are you sure those aren't from the activation model ones?

Considering I don't own any games that use the Securom activation model, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
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Gundato: And are you sure that those are related to a driver (and not just using the registry to store information)?

Not sure on this one, although I don't know why any registry entries would be made unless something was being installed. If you know of any files or other indications of the Securom drivers that I should check for then I'd be more than happy to see whether or not those are also present on my computer.
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Gundato: Are you sure those aren't from the activation model ones?
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DarrkPhoenix: Considering I don't own any games that use the Securom activation model, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
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Gundato: And are you sure that those are related to a driver (and not just using the registry to store information)?

Not sure on this one, although I don't know why any registry entries would be made unless something was being installed. If you know of any files or other indications of the Securom drivers that I should check for then I'd be more than happy to see whether or not those are also present on my computer.

Can't help on the last bit.
As for what it would store? I have no idea either. I just say that based upon my experiences with Securom. Even for pre-activation model era games, I notice that sometimes it takes a very long time to do the disc check, and sometimes it seemingly skips it. That suggests to me that it might not check the disc at every launch, and instead only every N times. Or it could just be that I have a piece of crap for a DVD drive :p
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DarrkPhoenix: Not sure on this one, although I don't know why any registry entries would be made unless something was being installed. If you know of any files or other indications of the Securom drivers that I should check for then I'd be more than happy to see whether or not those are also present on my computer.

You can use the official removal tool: https://support.securom.com/removaltool.html
Run it once and it will show you a list of the Securom components you have installed on your PC. Just don't click "Next" if you don't want it to remove them. I find that the removal tool is better at diagnosing if you have Securom installed that at actually removing Securom.
Also according to this list Fallout 3 has Securom only for the disc check and I remember that Bethesda emphasized that the DRM used for Fallout 3 doesn't install anything other than the game on your PC so I guess disc check Securom is safe. Should we believe Bethesda on this matter?
Post edited December 11, 2009 by OmegaX
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OmegaX: Also according to this list Fallout 3 has Securom only for the disc check and I remember that Bethesda emphasized that the DRM used for Fallout 3 doesn't install anything other than the game on your PC so I guess disc check Securom is safe. Should we believe Bethesda on this matter?

I think with Fallout 3 it's been confirmed by the many people that have bought it, that it only has the disk check in the executable and doesn't install any drivers.
Speaking of DRM free releases, the last 3 Tomb Raider games (Legend, Anniversary, and Underworld) are DRM free. I think Legend has a disk check, but Underworld may not even have that.
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barleyguy: I think with Fallout 3 it's been confirmed by the many people that have bought it, that it only has the disk check in the executable and doesn't install any drivers.
Speaking of DRM free releases, the last 3 Tomb Raider games (Legend, Anniversary, and Underworld) are DRM free. I think Legend has a disk check, but Underworld may not even have that.

It seems Legends, Anniversary, and Underworld have Securom 7 disc check and nothing more according to this list. If they are exactly as Fallout 3 they should be safe to install then.
Post edited December 11, 2009 by OmegaX
I was reminded today of something that might go in this thread... there are several Steam games that do not need the client to run. I know Assassin's Creed is one of them, as are several other Ubisoft games and I am sure others.
Now, to install them you may need to use Steam even if you copy the files, so I do not know how no-DRM-friendly that is, but it is interesting in the sense that you can download the game and then play it with no DRM attached.
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StingingVelvet: I was reminded today of something that might go in this thread... there are several Steam games that do not need the client to run. I know Assassin's Creed is one of them, as are several other Ubisoft games and I am sure others.
Now, to install them you may need to use Steam even if you copy the files, so I do not know how no-DRM-friendly that is, but it is interesting in the sense that you can download the game and then play it with no DRM attached.

I have Assassin's Creed on Steam, I'll test that when I get home. It would basically work like any game you download from Impulse.
I have read many times before that DOSBox games on Steam can be copied anywhere else and run from another installation of DOSBox which makes them also DRM free. We should make a list of these kind of things.
Post edited December 11, 2009 by OmegaX
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DarrkPhoenix: Not sure on this one, although I don't know why any registry entries would be made unless something was being installed. If you know of any files or other indications of the Securom drivers that I should check for then I'd be more than happy to see whether or not those are also present on my computer.
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OmegaX: You can use the official removal tool: https://support.securom.com/removaltool.html
Run it once and it will show you a list of the Securom components you have installed on your PC. Just don't click "Next" if you don't want it to remove them. I find that the removal tool is better at diagnosing if you have Securom installed that at actually removing Securom.
Also according to this list Fallout 3 has Securom only for the disc check and I remember that Bethesda emphasized that the DRM used for Fallout 3 doesn't install anything other than the game on your PC so I guess disc check Securom is safe. Should we believe Bethesda on this matter?

The problem with that tool is that, to my knowledge, it just says if you have Securom stuff on there. If it IS harmless registry entries (I really don't know), it will still remove those. Does the tool differentiate between saying "We removed a driver" and "We removed stuff we probably shouldn't have bothered putting in the registry in the first place"?
Grand Theft Auto IV is another, it launches from the Rockstar application without Steam running.
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Gundato: The problem with that tool is that, to my knowledge, it just says if you have Securom stuff on there. If it IS harmless registry entries (I really don't know), it will still remove those. Does the tool differentiate between saying "We removed a driver" and "We removed stuff we probably shouldn't have bothered putting in the registry in the first place"?

I remember that when I installed Alpha Prime from D2D it installed Securom with it so I used the removal tool. It found Securom components but it couldn't remove them all and prompted a reboot. Afterwards I removed the rest of the components manually and uninstalled the game.
The second time I used the tool I had downloaded and installed both DLCs for Steam's version of Mass Effect. The first DLC asked for a key for online activation but the other one didn't. Also I had installed the EA Download Manager to dowload the second DLC. I read that the EADM installs securom so I uninstalled it then run the removal tool. It showed securom components, I clicked next and it displayed a message saying that I have certain registry entries that contained licenses for my games (I assume it meant the DLC) and I shouldn't erase those. I chose to erase them anyway, rebooted, deleted manually the rest of the entries even though this time the tool said I had removed Securom completely, and rebooted again.
I guess the performance of the removal tool has been inconsistent for me. By now I should have a Securom clean machine and Mass Effect's DLC still shows within my game so I suppose that it didn't need Securom after all. I'll see if Securom installs anything it shouldn't after I get my hands on the games I will order.
Post edited December 11, 2009 by OmegaX
Note that in Vista and newer you should run the SecuROM uninstall tool with administrative elevation otherwise it can't remove some data. Even then it probably won't get it all but it's still better than running it without elevation.