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General discussion (archive)Pricing in modern gaming....(92 posts)(92 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 07, 2014
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I just have to comment on the incessant complaining that you see any time updated games like the new "Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition" appear on the market. You have people complaining about spending $20!!! It just absolutely blows my mind and I see these sorts of posts everywhere these days and not just in regards to updated games, although those tend to be some of the worst. I am not sure if its a side effect to all the cheap bundles that can now be found on a pretty much daily basis or if its just younger PC gamers that have absolutely no perspective, in regards to just how lucky they really are today in regards to the pricing of games. Either way, its just absolutely insane. Gaming is one of the only markets on the entire planet that has been, at least up to this point, 100% completely immune to inflation. Newly released games have been roughly $49.99 to $59.99 dating all the way back to the original Lucasarts and Sierra adventure games. Factoring in inflation, we were basically paying upwards of $120 to $130 per game back in the day.

Games today are VASTLY more expensive to produce (no comparison whatsoever in this regard), are produced by much larger teams of people, and are much larger and VASTLY more complex than games in the past. Yet amazingly, the price has remained 100% unchanged over the last 30 years, which technically means they get cheaper and cheaper with each passing year given the fact that inflation makes your money worth less and less each year. Gamers should be screaming from the rooftops over how lucky they are to be paying just $49.99 to $59.99 for a new game these days. On top of that games go on sale MUCH faster than they used to and get discounted by much larger amounts than games used too. Not to mention, you have the whole indie scene, which regularly releases games at the $5 to $15 range, and you have the ridiculously cheap game budles that get released pretty much daily now. In other words, gaming has NEVER been cheaper and that is really the understatement of the century. Those complaining about $20 games at launch, especially games that are as good as this one....well, those people just have ZERO perspective on the entire pricing of the gaming market. Zip, Nodda, None.

Its gotten so bad on Steam, that if a game is released above the $15 mark, you immeditaly start to see posts complaining about the price. Given that Icewind Dale was released in 2000, once you factor inflation in, people paid $69.10 to $82.92 (depending on wether it was $49.99 or $59.99 at launch). So once again, people should be shouting from the rooftops that the Enhanced edition is ONLY $20. Not to mention, it will no doubt go on sale in a month or two and people will be able to buy it for half that price.

If your one of the people complaining about gaming prices.....just stop. If you think a game is too expensive, then all you have to do is wait and buy it a month or two down the road. complaining just makes you look like total cheapskates that have absolutely no appreciation for just how cheap the modern gaming markets really are. The level of entitlement that many gamers have today is nothing short of mind-blowing. They act like the are owed super cheap games.

Anyways, just had to get that off my chest. No excuse me as I HAPPILY go and spent $20 on the new updated version of Icewind Dale!!
Posted November 07, 2014
What you sya does make sense, but I think most people who say the price is bad say it because of the relative ease they think of having in producing an HD version. You'd be surprised how some games are slightly modded and sold as HD these days (AoE2 HD is a good example, where the original can be modded for compatibility and better graphics). But it is indeed annoying since most companies put work into these.

But also consider the companies' POVs. If they released a classic remastered, it'll definitely sell a lot no matter how badly they did it, and if they did it very nicely, there are likely to be a lot of nostalgia tripped people who will want to give them more than a small amount for reviving their childhood memories. So if they release it at a high price point, people will still buy it, and people who don't have that much money will wait for a sale. So if they price it at $20, x amount of people(who have money to spare and are willing to give higher monetary support to the company) will buy $20 and y amount will buy for $10. If they released it at $10, they get lesser revenue from an audience, part of whom which was willing to pay more.
Posted November 07, 2014
I blame GoG ;)

I was amazed how quickly my brain "made the switch" on pricing. As a reformed console gamer, I used to drop $60 on nearly every game purchase without so much as batting an eye.

After all of two months or so on GoG, I'll look at that $5.99 title and be all "Gee, I KNOW GoG is going to have an awesome and fun sale. I'll wait" ;) And GoG is always nice enough to reward my patience. In the meantime, I know I can find other little nuggets of gaming goodness as well - I see how this works now.

I know for myself, the bitching comes mostly when I see some really wonderful indie developers and small studios releasing fantastic games, and getting them out at a price in the $10 - $17 dollar range. What really gets my goat is a lot of these new studios are jumping on the indie trend, using "indie" as market-speak and selling a buggy 3 hour long game with garbage stock art assets for $20 - $25. Yes, yes I know "A movie and popcorn for two is about that price and timeframe." That's always been a terrible way to rationalize an overpriced undercontent piece of glitchy gaming software.
Posted November 07, 2014
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Ixamyakxim: After all of two months or so on GoG, I'll look at that $5.99 title and be all "Gee, I KNOW GoG is going to have an awesome and fun sale. I'll wait" ;)
Funny, it's quite rare that I think that way (at least regarding GOG's prices), instead there have been cases where my brain went "$9.99 for that?! it should have been $19.99 at least!" and "Theylaunchedthat?!Where'smywallet?Ineeditnow-oh, they're running a launch sale, damn it, it's a crime not paying full price for that, I'll have to wait... but I waaant iiiit!!".
Post edited November 07, 2014 by Maighstir
Posted November 07, 2014
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RighteousNixon: ...If your one of the people complaining about gaming prices.....just stop. If you think a game is too expensive, then all you have to do is wait and buy it a month or two down the road. complaining just makes you look like total cheapskates that have absolutely no appreciation for just how cheap the modern gaming markets really are. The level of entitlement that many gamers have today is nothing short of mind-blowing. They act like the are owed super cheap games. ...
There is not much wrong with being a cheapskate.That's the free market, right. So everyone can buy at the prices he/she likes most. Even if you wait some time you still increase the profit of the game company (as long as you pay anything and do not pirate). The publishers make the prices so if they ask for only a bargain that's what they will get. The video game industry as a whole does not suffer (yet) because more and more people are buying games. And that is the reason why the prices are lower compared to what they used to be. By selling a larger volume of copies you still make a decent profit. This is a scaling effect and doesn't mean that anyone should pay more just because games used to be more expensive.

Of course entitlement is probably wrong. One can complain a bit if one feels that a particular game is not worth the asked price. Probably there are some games out there which do not live up to their price tag. I agree that in general games are cheap. But still I'm kind of a cheapskate and like paying not more than is necessary as long as my favorite developers still can live from their work.

I totally agree that constant whining and complaining is quite annoying and you should better not do it. However in a small dosage it should be tolerated. After all it's not words that count but money flows. And the money is just free markets at work. You buy if the price is right for you and that's it. I just stopped paying more than $20 for a game quite long ago while I used to pay as much as $50. But I do not feel bad about it. I'm happy that I can save money now.
Post edited November 07, 2014 by Trilarion
Posted November 09, 2014
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Shadowstalker16: What you sya does make sense, but I think most people who say the price is bad say it because of the relative ease they think of having in producing an HD version. You'd be surprised how some games are slightly modded and sold as HD these days (AoE2 HD is a good example, where the original can be modded for compatibility and better graphics). But it is indeed annoying since most companies put work into these.

But also consider the companies' POVs. If they released a classic remastered, it'll definitely sell a lot no matter how badly they did it, and if they did it very nicely, there are likely to be a lot of nostalgia tripped people who will want to give them more than a small amount for reviving their childhood memories. So if they release it at a high price point, people will still buy it, and people who don't have that much money will wait for a sale. So if they price it at $20, x amount of people(who have money to spare and are willing to give higher monetary support to the company) will buy $20 and y amount will buy for $10. If they released it at $10, they get lesser revenue from an audience, part of whom which was willing to pay more.
It doesnt matter. Even if a game is relatively easy to port over, they still deserve to make money on it and $20 for a game of that size and caliber is a STEAL. Again, we are paying cheaper and cheaper prices every year that passes as the gaming industry is completely immune from inflation. I have no clue why this market is the way it is, but it is. Prices stay the same even in light of inflation. Every other market on the planet see's regular price increases as time goes on. I honestly can't think of a single market outside of gaming that is like this and the end result is cheaper and cheaper games as each year passes.

Actually, the price of gaming has gone down if you factor in the indie game market and smaller sized game releases like you see on places like Xbox Live Arcade, which are much more akin to the full sized retail games were buying 10-15 years ago. Those games cost on average, around $10 - $15. That combined with the faster price drops, bigger sales, daily game bundles, etc....well, the end result is crystal clear. Gaming has NEVER been cheaper and that is the understatement of the century. Yet instead of appreciating what an amazing deal people are getting with modern gaming, a significant number of people have taken the opposite road and have become total cheapskates. They feel like they are entitled to cheap games. They demand cheaper and cheaper prices and attack any developer that releases games above the $10-$15 price point.

I have been gaming on PC's since the Commodore 64 days and I hate to say it, but PC gamers have really become the cheapskates of the gaming industry. Obviously not all PC gamers are like this, but the ones that are and quickly overshadowing the ones that aren't. And people wonder why a lot of companies prioritize console gaming. Developers can make a LOT more money on the console side as console gamers are FAR more accepting of higher game prices.

People are ok going to the movies and spending $15 on a 2 hour film or spending $20 bucks on the DVD, yet they bitch and moan about spending $20 bucks on a game that will give them 20-30+ hours of play time. In regards to time spent with the product, games are a much better value than movies, yet again, people start complaining even tho they will spend 10-20 times more time playing the game than sitting and watching the movie.

Its insane!!
Posted November 09, 2014
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RighteousNixon: People are ok going to the movies and spending $15 on a 2 hour film or spending $20 bucks on the DVD, yet they bitch and moan about spending $20 bucks on a game that will give them 20-30+ hours of play time. In regards to time spent with the product, games are a much better value than movies, yet again, people start complaining even tho they will spend 10-20 times more time playing the game than sitting and watching the movie.

Its insane!!
I hear quite a few complaints about movie prices though. Many from my own mouth.

What I find absolutely insane are prices for sports matches. Couple hours for 70€, WTF?
Posted November 09, 2014
Using Icewind Dale EE as an example, I personally would not consider the enhancements listed on the gamecard as being worthy of doubling the price: fixed some bugs, upped the resolution and probably made it generally better-looking, added some spells and items, and more of that type of stuff. Oh, and restored some side quests. Are you getting twice as much game compared to the vanilla version? Compare them side-by-side and I can understand the gripe of $20 versus $10. Look at it this way: if the enhancements were DLC, would you be willing to buy all of that stuff for an extra $10 after having played the vanilla version?

Myself, no.

In its defense, if one has not before played the Infinity Engine games then I would consider $20 for any of them to be a price worth paying. The age doesn't matter - the content does, and these games are as good as any RPGs out there. But its that comparison that causes the problem for me.
Posted November 09, 2014
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Ixamyakxim: I blame GoG ;)

I was amazed how quickly my brain "made the switch" on pricing. As a reformed console gamer, I used to drop $60 on nearly every game purchase without so much as batting an eye.

After all of two months or so on GoG, I'll look at that $5.99 title and be all "Gee, I KNOW GoG is going to have an awesome and fun sale. I'll wait" ;) And GoG is always nice enough to reward my patience. In the meantime, I know I can find other little nuggets of gaming goodness as well - I see how this works now.
Terraria releasing on GoG was what did it for me; there was so much content for just 2 dollars during that opening sale that I found myself looking at other sales of games afterwards and thinking "Hmm...is it really worth spending 2 dollars on this game? Terraria was a longer game." I had to sort myself out after that and remind myself that the amount of content-to-money available in that deal shouldn't become my new standard, lest I rarely purchase a game again. :P
Posted November 09, 2014
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RighteousNixon: It doesnt matter. Even if a game is relatively easy to port over, they still deserve to make money on it and $20 for a game of that size and caliber is a STEAL. Again, we are paying cheaper and cheaper prices every year that passes as the gaming industry is completely immune from inflation. I have no clue why this market is the way it is, but it is. Prices stay the same even in light of inflation. Every other market on the planet see's regular price increases as time goes on. I honestly can't think of a single market outside of gaming that is like this and the end result is cheaper and cheaper games as each year passes.
While I see where you're coming from I'm not sure I agree. First, video games are by no means the only industry with the same trend, every technology industry gets cheaper every year as technology becomes cheaper. My first computer cost about £2000 15 - 20 years ago (so probably £4000 - £5000 in today's money), and probably had less power and memory then the phone in my pocket that I got for free with my £15 per month contract... so it's not just games. Books and music have also stayed pretty much the same price for 10 - 15 years as far as I can remember.

I can see why people might complain that a remake of a game that is 14 years old costs $20 when many brand new games which probably come with as much or more content cost less. It doesn't make it wrong or right, but to some people $20 is too much for a game.

I'm at a place where I don't currently have much disposable income, so I don't pay more than £5 for a game right now. When I'm a little better off I will happily pay even £60 for a game (mainly Nintendo console games as they remain the most expensive games these days). I would rather pay £5 for them, but I won't complain when the new Zelda comes out on Wii U and costs £50+

I was thinking earlier today about how you put a value on games / entertainment. I can pay as low as £1 for a game that might give me 100+ hours of enjoyment... But I'll pay £8 for a book that I can read in 8 hours, but even if I say I might read that book 5 times in the time I own it that's still 40 hours for £8 compared to 100 for £1, but I wouldn't really say the game is better value than the book. I know some people will happily pay £10 for a game 1 or 2 hours long if it is really good.
As has been mentioned some people will spend £20 on a couple of hours in a cinema, or £70 for a few hours at a sports game. I myself regularly pay £100+ (including travel etc.) to go to a concert. How do you compare the value of any of those things?
I think the problem is how people value things, you see $20 for a game as being a bargain, others see it as a rip off.
Posted November 09, 2014
There is so much gaming content available these days for so little money, that the value of games becomes close to zero. I could play for hundred and thousands of hours for no money at all, including some pretty good games. If I spend a dollar or two at the right time, I could get yesteryear's AAA titles. For under (often way under) $10 I could get the (slightly old) AAA titles I really want, and certainly the indie ones.

Developers deserve our money, but for many people gaming is something that they can get for free, so they feel that it's their right to not pay. After all, they're getting these games legitimately for free, so it would be stupid to pay anything. Certainly I'm paying a lot less for games these days than I used to. I'm also buying a lot more games, most of which I don't care about, because they are bundled with games I think I might enjoy.
Post edited November 09, 2014 by ET3D
Posted November 09, 2014
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RighteousNixon: ...
I don't think either you, or the ones complaining of high(?) prices, have any meaningful point. The prices are what they are. Free market, the publishers set the prices for their goods, and the customers can choose not to buy it at that price. Someone might complain about the price, so what? The publisher does not need to listen to the complainers, if the game is selling briskly anyway.

That's also why I don't feel bad buying some games in a deep discount, because it is the publisher who has set that price. They are obviously fine with the low price, otherwise they wouldn't be selling at that price. Free market.

It may be the cost of making AAA titles has skyrocketed, but so have the profits. Did e.g. GTA V break both records?

A few points to you, some logical hiccups in your original message:

- Inflation does not increase the price of anything (gaming or something else). Inflation IS the (calculated) increase of prices. So it is illogical to say something is/isn't "immune" to inflation.

- You said nothing else has come down in price except gaming. I remember the time when having an ISDN internet connection cost an arm and a leg (had to pay per minute), and even landline calls were so expensive that many people chose to make calls primarily at night time when it was cheaper. Also, I remember the time the cheapest laptop prices would start at 1000€, now around 250€ or even less.
Post edited November 09, 2014 by timppu
Posted November 09, 2014
You forget the avalanche of shovel/crapware in modern gaming... not the mention the flood of "new" releases each week. (compared to the past where sometimes you'd only get a dozen games a year, now we get over 2,000 new games each year".)
Supply and demand, and with digital, the suply will NEVER run out :/


Since you brought up "Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition" gog, the price point by itself is great, however it is high for all of us that all ready own Icewind Dale Complete on gog and see no discount.

Now, if a enhanced edition has new artwork, new 3d models, new animations, new sounds, "new" hd-textures, bug fixes, added controller support, new quests, new characters, etc. Then $20 is a steal.


This is how I look at it "not every HD/remake/EE game are equal in the man hours put into releasing it".
Most of the time, it is just the games ingame renderer settings where tweaked/changed ONLY, no actual man hours put into making new assets for the game.
This isn't the case for Icewind Dale EE, as it appears a considerable deal of effort was put into it. (also, how can they only fix a few of the old KNOWN bugs, and even introduce new bugs? AKA: Baulder Gates 1/2 EE)

Many companies seem to be doing this lately: ship game with a set maximum for graphic settings, even locking fps to 30 and so forth.
Only for fans to find out the game can run at unlocked fps and even higher gemoetry settings and higher AA settings then the ingame options allow...
it's like the company was thinking this: "how can we re-release the exact same game next year with minimual man hours/work put into it?"
Simple, limit the ingame graphic options :D... also, the inital texture files upon release had their resolution halfed, in anticapation of the remake where we can just restore the original textures ;D.
Posted November 09, 2014
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RighteousNixon: ...People are ok going to the movies and spending $15 on a 2 hour film or spending $20 bucks on the DVD, yet they bitch and moan about spending $20 bucks on a game that will give them 20-30+ hours of play time. In regards to time spent with the product, games are a much better value than movies, yet again, people start complaining even tho they will spend 10-20 times more time playing the game than sitting and watching the movie.

Its insane!!
I fully agree that people aren't really consistent with their actions quite often but in this particular example some people play computer games much more often than they go to the cinema. For example assume you play a computer game almost every day. Then assume you go to the cinema every day and spent $15 every day. Some people could not afford that. So for them a computer game indeed has to be cheaper than going to the cinema because they do it more often. As a general rule: the more extended in time you do something the less it should cost per hour.

However I also still wonder how people can say that they cannot afford to pay $10 more and they are also living in a Western country and posses a computer. In most cases this should not be true although there surely are exceptions.
Posted November 09, 2014
I'm probably not the right person to complain about specific game prices, because I personally feel the entire game pricing system is messed up.
I would very much be interested in seeing a breakdown of the cost of making a game. Somehow I'm not sure I'd take it on faith that games of a similar level cost much more to make now than they did back then. From what I read, it really does seem like the vast majority of the cost goes towards advertising and promotion, which I really find stupid.

And how you mentioned that the game prices have remained constant despite the fact that we no longer get a physical disc, a manual, or a box. Just some files added to our account on whatever distribution system.

Game launch prices to me simply seem like a desperation tax, which again annoys me. I've never in my entire life spent $60/$50 on a launch-time game (or on a single game at all).

In the case of Icewind Dale's Enhanced Edition, I suppose the problem is backwards. The original game (such as still available here) is priced higher than it should be, meaning they had to charge more than that for the EE.
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General discussion (archive)Pricing in modern gaming....(92 posts)(92 posts)
(92 posts)