The only people who call the overthrow the "First 9/11" are Marxists and Marxian sympathizers, both which should be swept aside and blocked from holding public office.

And the people who claim that the CIA killed Allende are simply clueless. Look up the March of Empty Pots and the protests and strikes that happened against Allende's regime because of his horrific economic policies.

[ ] you know what you're talking about
[x] you are a troll


Here's your fish ><))))*>

Socialism is a system of centralized governmental control over the economy and the people. Karl Marx was basically a nutcase and a hypocrite whose ideology was basically a cult: it involved a mythology of things that never happened, it focused on faith instead of reason and logic, and it basically claims that you are guilty if you actually desire something more than what some politician thinks is "all you need."

Basically, what you're saying is that your special, unique form of communism/socialism has never been implemented and even though over 100 million people have been murdered in the name of communism/socialism, we should give it another go as long as 51% of the active voting population give the secret police, the rationing boards, and the bureaucrats their blessing.

No thank you. My rights, opportunities, and well-being should not depend on a bunch of poorly informed voters.

[ ] you know what you're talking about

Maybe you should try to learn to read? Then you may even read Marx, and don't have to resort to lies and unbased assumptions.

Interesting, I didn't know Kissinger had a GOG account.

Think you got your cause and effect reversed, you simply designate everyone who calls it first 911 as marxists because you are still living in the 50s. Maybe they did not kill him directly, but without them it would not have suceeded. Am I to understand you view this military coup that resulted in thousands of deaths,disappearances and political prisoners as a good thing?

As suppose to the cracking down of right-leaning protest demonstrations, artificial food shortages caused by emotion-based price controls, and ties with communist regimes that created artificial famines, mass murder, and concentration camps for alleged dissenters; it was a small price to pay to avoid long-term communistic damages.

I'm not saying General Pinochet was a saint. There were mistakes he made and things he did that were a bit too militant for my taste but in the end, he and his subordinates got the job done. The food shortages came to an end and job opportunities rose.

And you do have real reliable sources for that? I don't count Fox news.

Well it wasn't a real republic either since the leadership formed an inpenetrable caste and made decisions behind closed doors. No "res publica" (public matter).

Also the GDR was neither socialist nor communist, they just called this themselves. I used to live there, so I know. But that's what the right wing libertarians will never admit. That they've beaten the wrong horse. They are glad that term like socialism are discredited by those regimes.

Well, I did say that I was out of touch with recent (last couple of years) events, so you may be right on that. Still, I say what I say being Basque myself and having suffered quite some shit myself. I had the machine gun of a Spanish military policeman pointing to my face once, and even though I "knew" he wasn't going to shoot it's not a very nice situation. And I have quite a few stories like that, and worse.

That said, it would not be right of me to put these incidents isolated: bad as they are, these happened due to a complicated situation that spans hundreds of years, where both sides have done bad things. And while I do see the "others" (Spain in this case) as the main culprits, I'll be the first to admit I'm pretty biased. That's the way it works. I need to suck it up and try to look for a solution.

Before you post, this chart may have pulled from Wikipedia, a site I am always reluctant to visit, but the chart is reliable and does show significant economic growth under General Pinochet's free market-leaning reforms.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/GDP_per_capita_LA-Chile.png

As for troubles under Allende, here is one of several that talk about the crap that happened because of his pig-headed Marxist views of life.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/16237/Salvador-Allende

Also, it's funny how you immediately state that you don't count Fox News as reliable not just because it assumes that everything I know comes from one source but also that you are quick to bash the only major cable news program that doesn't bow down and rollover for Obama. You seem like the type who will bash the hell out of Fox News and accuse anyone who disagrees with leftist policies of only getting info from it even though I rarely ever sit down to watch cable news in general.

By the way, by targeting only Fox News, you show your own ignorance since you're turning a blind eye to the crap the other news sources pull like defending favored politicians like Obama by distracting the masses with half-truths and other crap and throwing around political and politicized terms around to frighten the masses.

Maybe we should ask people from Chile what they think about Pinochet. Allende dared to step on the US corporation's toes so the country was cut off from international trade.

I find it strange that someone from "The Land of the Free" prefers a murderous dictator that had 130,000 people arrested (many of the tortured) over a freely elected president jus because he doesn't like the latter's views of economics.

It's funny how you immediately declare anything remotely leftist as pig-headed.

I don't trust any of the major networks. In Germany we have the Springer empire that has the power of making or breaking politicians. Then there Bertelsmann...

They all have their own agenda. With Fox it's just so that it's more obvious how biased they are. Ideally journalism should be about presenting the facts in a neutral way. Commentary should be marked as such. The viewers/readers should be able to make up their own mind.

We are far from this ideal, but whenever I'm confronted with snippets from Fox, I see a lot of mixing comment and facts, leaving out important counter-evidence for their views and stretching interpretions of statistics (that's sources are often questionable enough, but that's a common problem, not just with Fox). I see a lot of fear- and hatemongering there.

I don't understand that people like you (correct me if I'm wrong) that value "freedom" and don't want the state to dabble with their lives (understandable), fail to recognize, that to be really free, your basic needs have to be secured first.
If becoming ill or having an accident can ruin you for the rest of your life, if you are forced to take any job, no matter how bad salary or working conditions are, you are practically a slave, the opposite of free.
Freedom means choice. That means you have to able to see eye to eye with possible employers to negotiate over salary and working conditions, and not be forced to bend over, shut up and swallow, lest you starve. It means there is some security measure if a bad thing happens to you. But only the state can provide this kind of protection. It surely can be overdone, too.

Edit: lots of typos it's early in the morning :-)

Agree, thank you for the answer mate, that's the way it is.

I don't trust the opposition leaders here, but they're ideas of how to run a country are correct, so atleast I'm sure if they manage someday to acquire the power, they'll do their best to save this country.

My biggest fear is that when that happens they decide to exclude the right, just like the current goverment is doing with us, that would make us no better than them, I hope this does not take place.