Guys, if you have a minute or two, please read.

I'm currently studying Software Engineering (that is what the studies are called, but it is more of a mix of SE, CS, and IT). Last semester, last year. 5 more courses left to clear (10 exams to pass, to be more precise). I should be graduating in two or three months, if all goes well. I've been thinking about continuing the studying and doing the postgraduate studies after I graduate.

The problem is I am kind of stuck and can't really say that I know where to do the postgraduate studies. Can you please write a word or two about how postgraduate education is where you are, and maybe how's the market for anything CS / IT related?

I've been thinking about going somewhere in the west or north of Europe, and maybe the US. So, is postgrad education expensive where you are? Can a foreign citizen easily find a job that will keep him alive and with a place to stay (my country is not an EU member so I guess there will be some limitations)?

All of this post is assuming that by postgrad you mean PhD (or research masters perhaps, though not so much):

I was in your position, and chose to go into industry instead. There were several factors pushing me that way, the main one being I simply didn't have the desire to do research.

To do a post grad degree is very different from your current one. You'll be investigating, failing, trying again. It's not so much about learning things as using your learning to then find out new things. It sounds exciting, but it's more likely very tedious and hard.

I'm not saying don't do it. Simply that to do a post graduate degree, you need to really want to investigate your subject area. If you fall into that path because it's convenient, or just a door open to you, you will fail.

Financially, if you can find a funded placement then you'll be ok. I've known people outside of the EU do post grad work here. In my first job, our part time cleaner was the smartest man in the building. You may need to do additional work to fund youself, but it will be there, even in this economic climate (people like employing post grads as cleaners or bar staff, I think it's from an inferiority complex they are fighting).

So in short - how much do you want to do post grad research?

Where I live at there's not a huge market for IT related work. There are the school systems and the major cellphone provider that require IT technicians every so often but the main lifeblood is coal. A lot of money can be made here working in a coal mine but it's dangerous work and some of my uncles have gotten black lung. Also, the postgraduate studies in my area are rather poor. Sorry I can't be of much help.

Yes, the non-EU thing will make things more difficult (and likely more expensive :( ). What's the EEA status of Macedonia? The official webpage has Macedonia listed as "cooperating" but not as member status ... some countries (Sweden, for example) treat students from EEA countries as equal to those from EU members.

Re: Studying ... here in the UK there's a lot of differences between each university, quality wise. And likewise between departments at the same university. Both Germany and Sweden, when I studied in either of those, seemed to be at least a bit more uniform - though still, of course, with some departments of some universities being better than others. Same goes with living costs. Huge differences between some parts of the UK compared to others. A bit less of a disparity in Sweden / Germany.

Finding jobs depends, really. I don't think it is easy, anywhere, right now. I am struggling to get interviews - despite having three first class degrees and loads of work experience. I know there's around 50 people going for every job on average, here, at the moment. A two days / week research job on minimum wage that I'd applied for two weeks ago had 75 people trying. There are jobs out there though ... if you are ok working menial stuff / working in cafe's and the like. I worked as a postman to finance my part-time MA ... which worked okayish, given that lectures were in the evenings. You'd need a visa / work permit for UK - and Germany, likely.

It really depends on what situation I'll fall under in a few months. If I stay here in Macedonia, I will most likely do it (it shouldn't be expensive and I'll take my time at it, prioritizing on finding a job or starting my own business), hoping it will land me a better job after I am done with it, at some of the worldwide companies / corporations that have offices here.

Although, to be honest, I am more seeing it as a way to leave the country, and make my way into a western, more developed country. Being a student will certainly lift many restrictions, as I don't think a non-EU citizen can freely enter a EU country and live in it for as long as he wants legally.

Leaving the country to do postgrad will also encourage another thing... assuming I do good, as in, find a job that can get me through the month, my girlfriend that studies medicine will most likely join me (if we're still together by the time she finishes her undergraduate studies). So, yea, with a decision to do postgrad in a western country, I am kind of looking at the 'bigger' picture.

I'll research this EEA stuff and about the visas / permissions, tomorrow, thanks for mentioning them. About the quality of the universities, I am not really that concerned, as long as the degree / diploma is valid. The universities in my country are mostly a disaster, so basically, anything would be better.

About work experience, I've held lectures for students a year younger than me for one school year, and have been the 'admin' in my dad's small business geospatial company since 2007 (if what I'm doing can be called being an admin, since it is a small business, I'm not much involved (I check in when they have problems, and visit the place once a month to do the usual security updates and stuff). I also have a few years of experience working directly with my dad on field, but that hasn't been much consistent, as I'm working one week, not working two or three, and so on.

Hypothetically, could that land me a job in the industry (even as part of a support crew or maybe some junior positions or whatever?

Heheh coincidentally I was asking the same thing too 2 weeks ago :P

Macedonia is a member of the Council of Europe, but is not included in the EFTA, EEA, or the EU Customs Union. Macedonia submitted their application for EU membership in 2005 or but they are not ascending like Croatia. I'm not sure why they haven't advanced their application further but they will have several years until they can join which means it wouldn't be worth waiting around in order to save on overseas student fees.

Edit: This is the article from the EU website, as you can see they are advancing their application but they still have a ways to go.
http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/index_en.htm

I read that thread, but didn't want to steal it from you. :) When you say expensive, does that mean more than a few thousand EUR (just for the university alone, not counting living expenses)?

Assuming I go to the UK or another country with English as the official language, would it be a good idea to take a shot at TOEFL?

When I say expensive I mean £10,000-£15,000 for one year's tuition and £1000 per month for London and £700 for the rest of the country. When I was undergrad I managed to get by on about £300/month but I also lost about 15kgs, not very fun at all.

It wouldn't hurt to take the TOEFL and most universities require some proof of language competence if you aren't from an English speaking country. If you go anywhere else in Europe they will have some classes that are taught in English, so even if you decide to go somewhere other than the UK it would be useful. Judging by your written English you shouldn't have much trouble.

Edit: Link to bad news :(
http://www.foreignstudents.com/universities/fees

Ouch, that's out off my reach, definitely. I was hoping you'd name a price lower than 3 or maybe 4 thousand EUR.

Alright, I will definitely do the TOEFL test, either in June or July, once I finish with the last exam for this semester. Even if it doesn't end up being required, it can't hurt to have the certificate. Thanks for your replies.

I'd suggest looking at Scandinavian countries, seriously. There's usually a good level of English taught courses (and people speak really good English!), unlike say Germany. Sadly things in Sweden changed and they charge tuition fees [it's still free for Swedish / EU & EEA students] in around the same range as the UK. I.e. about 8.000 to 13.200 pounds per academic year - but it probably would be a bit easier to get a scholarship than it is with the UK. I'd get into contact with universities that interest you - i.e. that offer a course you are interested in and see what they suggest. Generally universities want to have students coming to them. Plus it'd also give you at least a bit of an indication of how well the university deals with international students (or not). Go where you are appreciated, rather than where not :).

See
http://www.studyinsweden.se/
http://www.studyinsweden.se/Scholarships/
and
http://www.studyinsweden.se/Scholarships/SI-scholarships/SI-Scholarships-for-East-Europe/

That said you can live well on less than £700 / month in some parts of the UK, imo. I managed well on around £500 / month here in Liverpool. Shared accomodation, of course, but hey, that's how it goes. North of England, generally, is a lot cheaper than the South.

That's going to be difficult in that price range, unfortunately. I would agree with Mnemon that Scandivian countries probably would be a good choice as they have a high English speaking populace but, though they would be cheaper than the UK, they would still be at best double you price range.

Israel has some of the best technical schools outside of the US and EU according to Shanghai Ranking, and would be much closer to your price range. Plus most of the courses are in English, compliments of the US government. Bottom line, leaving your country is expensive and most universities see you as the son of a rich person to pad their profit margins rather than a prospective student.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/SubjectCS2011.html

Keep in mind that post-graduate work will likely cost you money, and even if you do have a grant, teaching assitantship, research assistantship, or scholarship; none of those things pay very well. This is fine if the post graduate education is really what you want, but if you are looking to get a post-graduate education in order to make more money, keep in mind that you are losing money while you are in school (assuming you could be getting your career started now instead of 2-10 years from now, depending on how long you take in grad school). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think software engineering is a field that requires post-graduate training to get jobs. I think as long as you have a strong portfolio of work, your skills are what matter. This is unlike other areas like psychology (my field) where you have to have the degree in order to get licensed and you need the license in order to legally practice.

Money spent on education and money lost from accepting low paying stipends (when you could have already started a more lucrative career) are very real costs to post graduate education and they don't always pay off in the end. You have to keep in mind your road to retirement and decide if those expenses will ultimately yield you a better long term income or not. I think a lot of post graduate education sucks people dry financially, which is ironic because the "promise" of post graduate work is that you will make more money with a higher degree.

You should also keep in mind that graduate school is often more about research. If you don't care about taking part in the scientific advancement of your field, then graduate school may not do a whole lot for you. If you want to just start working in the private sector, you may just want to start doing that instead of devoting years of your life to research.

Of course, if you do want to do research then graduate school is pretty much a necessity at that point and I would recommend it. But as a person that has spent the past 8 years in graduate school while watching friends move ahead in their careers and start making real money, I don't know as I would highly recommend it. I probably should have stopped at my Masters a few years ago instead of carrying on for the PhD because I could have started working then. I now have a defended dissertation and just need one more year for internship, so I'm not going to quit now, but I'm not really convinced that so much education was really to my benefit. After awhile, my education began to feel much less like a learning experience and much more like I was jumping through hoops to meet department requirements and working slave-labor jobs where they know I have skills of value to them that they can get for little money because I'm a graduate student and we work cheap if tuition is waived.