GameRager: As you said, adoption and surrogate mothers.

Tulivu: homosexuality doesn't (when properly integrated).

Demut: Yes, that’s what I’m insinuating.

Demut: What? Where did that come from? I was talking about why incestuous marriages should then be legal as well since they are as harmless as homosexual marriages.

GameRager: ]I meant in general/about gay marraige and why you're seemingly against it, in general.

nondeplumage: Well, Germany's good at undermining large populations of people. Good to know they haven't changed much.

And I'm taking history, you people who automatically think about reaching for the Nazi card.

Khalaq: Are you, really? Because your comment makes it sound as if you haven't studied enough, yet. That wouldn't be surprising, given the sad state of the modern educational system. If you really want to understand history, you need to read the books that nobody every hears about because they've been hidden away in dusty libraries. If you read only what is assigned in approved curricula, you'll never get past the "mushroom" stage.

nondeplumage: They were doing just fine in society for millennia. They cease to be properly integrated only when people force them out and ostracize them, which has become the problem now, because someone somewhere said they should and some people are easily led.

And to once more paraphrase Terry Pratchett, the inherent servility of humanity is depressing.

nondeplumage: And if you're into the past events of...stuff happening, and don't know about this site:

http://badassoftheweek.com/

then you're welcome.

Demut: Your take on incestuous marriage?

GameRager: 1. Just because someone's religious leaders don't/won't admit part or a good chunk of it's religious ideas could be wrong doesn't mean all those who follow that faith also do so. I'm religious and even I don't believe everything i';m told. I admit some of it could be very wrong...

2. And what religion does this today and kills/imprisons people of opposing beliefs? Outside the more visible extremist sects and offshoots that is.

I know mine doesn't, and I don't.

----------------------------------

As for scientists, it's more the fact that many of the more extreme atheists don't find it hypocritical to follow a theory(like big bang) with only shreds of "evidence" that only a few eggheads can understand fully?

Not syaing Big Bang is wrong, but to tout it as almost 100% fact as some hard;ine atheists do is borderline blind faith on their part, just like some extremist faith followers follow blindly something they can't prove themsleves or understand little about yet follow anyways.

jeffreydean1: I have never in my life heard an atheist that believed with such faith and fervor in the big bang as religious people like to pretend that they do. Most accept it as what it is and what it always has been presented as: a possible theory.

Personally, I don't know. That's why I am an agnostic. I find anyone who claims to know something without the slightest hint of evidence illogical. That INCLUDES atheists. While the onus is NOT on them to prove that God does not exist (you cannot generally prove a negative) it takes a certain degree of faith to claim with any kind of certainty that there is in fact no god.

Religious folks hate to acknowledge the existence of agnostics because we take away their easy target of atheism.

As for the side argument about gay marriage, agree with those saying that the government needs to get out of marriage altogether. But as long as government gives special rights to heterosexual couples, not extending those rights to gay couples is discrimination.

GameRager: Nonsense....there are many atheists that uphold the theory of the big bang with such blind loyalty, especially while stating that blind loyalty in a faith is dumb/etc, that it sickens me sometimes.

Agreed on part 2....people who believe something on either side with such certainty are illogical...and annyoing as religious evangelicals to boot.

I acknowledge agnosticism.

And I also agree on the gay marriage thing.

orcishgamer: My take is that's merely a red herring. Just like someone marrying their dog, or whatever other silly stuff people have come up with to avoid facing their prejudices.