I Used to remember that those games were very diffecult and illogical.
Quest series because piracy was very common as well these days becausee they wanted to sell those guides. But how is it it today? How are those indie game point and clicks?

I thought the subject title was some kind of quip towards the fact that nowadays most, if not all, point&click adventure games seem to come from Germany. Maybe it was, I can't really tell.

I thought the puzzles were hard and illogical because they had limited space on the disk and hard puzzles would make the game longer.

Or, because the person doing the game design wasn't putting much effort into making them properly logical.

I've found Capt. Brawe to be a bit hit or miss in that regards. Sometimes I'll know what to do, but if I don't click in just the right place I'll not get credit with the solution. And I hate checking hints because it then means that if I'm not right I've skipped a part of the game.

Not all of them are so illogical, usually, (the best ones give subtle hints).. Art of murder would be nice if it had logical puzzles. (in the first one, who FBI dude even would take anything without gloves) Got those when there was some sale in gamersgate. But even classics like monkey island had monkey wrench. Never things what i've really liked were Secret files games.

I've played Resonance, well not through but still, it's not the most annoying. And broken sword wasn't.. Well in a matter of fact in adventure games I just hate when they make some mathematical puzzle or some square thing where you have to slide in positions. I like to looks for clues and stuff.. Not those sliding squares.

Anyway, there's so much games that need no effort that it kinda dumbs down and when there's a bit of challenge you are like "hey, what's this, no flashing hints in the screen?".

Still gemini rue was the best story I've heard in a while, when I played that.

I personally was expecting the post in general to be in German. Amazing what a typo can do.

Same here or at least more Germanish typos.

I think it's quite difficult to get it right. If everything is so logical that it almost becomes trite, you'll have reviewers complaining that the puzzles are too easy for experienced adventure gamers. If you try to make them more challenging, there's a good chance that people will have difficulties following your 'creative' logic. And then there's the pitfall of just resorting to genre conventions, however stupid they may be.

Some of the best times ever with gaming I had with point and click games. It's usually better than strafing so fast that even quake 1 enemies won't hit you (which are btw almost too fast).

Adventure games are in fact very logical in their own way.
You just need to turn off every day thinking mode and get into MacGyver mode (iow, accept the fact that similar shaped/sized objects can substitute one another in weirdest kind of ways).

What IS illogical, is when certain items or whatever automagically appear in a room after talking to someone or opening a chest far away and so on. Modern games don't really use these kind of puzzles, and they don't have sudden deaths either (that much, anyway).

Some of the relatively new games actually use that kind of puzzles as a joke refering to older games. Like Ben&Dan series, the protagonists themselves question the way some things affect other things in the game world.

But other than that, modern adventure games are quite user-friendly, even though very often lacking the witty dialogue and/or charming characters that the classics had.

Most modern point & click adventure games are a bit easier and has less backwards logic in them. Plenty of them also have a way that allows you to highlight all hotspots on screen, which prevents those stupid pixel hunting moments (Gabriel Knight, I'm looking at you).

If you want a shining example of adventure design done right, then take a look at the recent Gray Matter. It is a fun game, with a nice plot and puzzles that are relatively easy, without feeling simplistic.
A far more challenging game, that at least introduces its backwards logic to the player in such a way that makes it possible for him/her to get into it is The Whispered World (I never finished it, as the puzzles were not my cup of tea, but it is a charming game, and the game did give hints on how to solve all the puzzles).

I'd suggest to try the ones by WadjetEye Games if you haven't yet. They're not that expensive and they try to avoid the flaws of older p&c adventures. I've played through many of them without having to check walkthrough (specifically the Blackwell series, although Deception tempts me now ...).

Regarding your average adventure game, I have to admit though that not a lot has changed. There are very few that I solved completely without sneaking an occasional peek into a walkthrough. Then again, it might just me being impatient at times.

There are phases in the games were everything works out fine and I'm happy with the way things are going (and that could be like 80-90% of the game), but that's no guarantee against running into a dead end all of sudden because of one or two oversights or badly designed puzzles. The challenge is not to let this ruin your enjoyment of the game, even if it makes you feel like a cheater. 90% without help is still good, and in the end it's the story that counts, at least for me. Maybe that's why more modern games don't keep track of your "score" anymore, unlike the old Sierra adventures. ;)

Sierra games are a great example of unlogical sometimes, they even had that you cant finish the game because you forgot something. Dont think you can finish those games withouyt a guide. I have a feeling they did it too sell there guides because dont know if its true they solde the larry 1 guide more then the game itself. And i heard someone told me that they laughed at lucasarts because tyhey made the games winneble.

Couldn't agree more, one of the best point & click's I've played in a long time.

Loved the Quests, and i never had a guide, nor did i use solutions, not to mention, english is not my primary language, and i had to do a lot of dictionary snooping as a kid. It was fun.
Hate modern p&s games, they're too simplistic and gimmicky, often resorting to physics based puzzles, or 'click the right item on screen, for something to happen', like Samorost.
So, yeah, couldn't agree less.