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General discussion (archive)Playing a fair game with developers that do not(76 posts)(76 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 24, 2011
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Cleidophoros: I don't have an Xbox thus an Xbox controller.
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StingingVelvet: I don't have an Xbox but I do have an Xbox controller. They're easy to get on their own, since for a long time they were marketed as official Windows controllers as well. They might still be, for all I know.
jesus your being an ass, the "Offical" xbox360 controller for windows costs $70 and all you get is a wireless 360 controller and the wireless PC receiver, on top of that M$ stopped manufacturing the stand alone receiver years ago so even if you HAVE a 360 (I do, and 3 controllers) you will still need to go out and buy the $70 kit.

additionally, "controllers" in general (outside of the motion-swoosh bits that have no functionality on the PC) have not made a single evolutionary upgrade since 2006 when wireless started becoming the standard. everything is just a modification on the PS2 layout, and as such my 8 year old gamepad still provides the exact same functionality of a 360 controller that was manufactured yesterday.

on top of which, as the link I provided demonstrates, emulating Direct input in Xinput is so easy that M$ had to have intentionally neglected it for it to not be a standard feature.
Posted November 24, 2011
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Foxhack: And Microsoft is trying to turn their pad into the STANDARD gaming device. So the 95% of people who don't have or can't afford one? We're screwed and can't do anything against them locking out their games from our gamepads?
Facepalm. Microsoft are not doing that. They are standardizing the set of APIs available in DirectX.

There is a difference between 'their pads' and 'pads based on xInput.
Posted November 24, 2011
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Sogi-Ya: on top of which, as the link I provided demonstrates, emulating Direct input in Xinput is so easy that M$ had to have intentionally neglected it for it to not be a standard feature.
Just like they removed DirectPlay switching to Live.
Posted November 24, 2011
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Sogi-Ya: jesus your being an ass, the "Offical" xbox360 controller for windows costs $70 and all you get is a wireless 360 controller and the wireless PC receiver, on top of that M$ stopped manufacturing the stand alone receiver years ago so even if you HAVE a 360 (I do, and 3 controllers) you will still need to go out and buy the $70 kit.
Or, you can just buy yourself a third party controller that uses current gen technology, and not some old stuff that was popular during the days of DirectX 8.
Posted November 24, 2011
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Foxhack: And Microsoft is trying to turn their pad into the STANDARD gaming device. So the 95% of people who don't have or can't afford one? We're screwed and can't do anything against them locking out their games from our gamepads?
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kavazovangel: Facepalm. Microsoft are not doing that. They are standardizing the set of APIs available in DirectX.

There is a difference between 'their pads' and 'pads based on xInput.
I've only seen one other gamepad that uses Xinput natively - the knockoff Logitech one.

Why is that, I wonder? Why restrict what devs can use in their games? Hm...
Posted November 24, 2011
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Foxhack: I've only seen one other gamepad that uses Xinput natively - the knockoff Logitech one.

Why is that, I wonder? Why restrict what devs can use in their games? Hm...
Razer also makes xInput controllers, and I don't doubt other companies also make similar devices.

Microsoft aren't restricting developers, DirectInput is currently marked obsolete, because it is, well, obsolete. It is old, and it hasn't received a major update since DirectX. They provide the xInput APIs, which are free to all developers that want to use them.

If the developers don't want to use them, they can skip them very easily. But think of the additional work that would be required to get the same compatibility level.
Posted November 24, 2011
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Sogi-Ya: jesus your being an ass, the "Offical" xbox360 controller for windows costs $70 and all you get is a wireless 360 controller and the wireless PC receiver, on top of that M$ stopped manufacturing the stand alone receiver years ago so even if you HAVE a 360 (I do, and 3 controllers) you will still need to go out and buy the $70 kit.
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kavazovangel: Or, you can just buy yourself a third party controller that uses current gen technology, and not some old stuff that was popular during the days of DirectX 8.
or I could just keep on using the gamepad I already own, that does the exact same thing, has the exact same physical appearance, and costs me nothing.
Posted November 24, 2011
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carnival73: snip
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fexen: Have you thought of using a software that maps keyboard keys to your gamepad?
http://www.electracode.com/4/joy2key/JoyToKey%20English%20Version.htm
That's what I was getting at - some of these games have been designed to derail keyboard mapping so that you can't map your game pad rendering the game unusable with a game pad.
Posted November 24, 2011
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Sogi-Ya: or I could just keep on using the gamepad I already own, that does the exact same thing, has the exact same physical appearance, and costs me nothing.
Okay, but don't blame devs the next time it doesn't work with a particular game.
Posted November 24, 2011
I don't have to: the community at large has already developed a DirectInput -> Xinput emulator that offers better layout adjustment than the default API or any in game input options I have ever seen.

I will however get plenty pissed at shit like THQ locking out the game controls simply because I have a speed pad or a joystick installed (not "connected" ... IN-fucking-STALLED, I didn't even have the damned thing plugged in).
Posted November 24, 2011
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fexen: Have you thought of using a software that maps keyboard keys to your gamepad?
http://www.electracode.com/4/joy2key/JoyToKey%20English%20Version.htm
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CowboyBebop: +1
I have Windows 7 and I used to use my gamepad (running Joy2Key) with no problems. It's been a while since I used it but I believe I remember using it on steam games with no problems. How it would work for Serious Sam I don't know.
This is the whole thing that I'm complaining about - some games subvert keyboard mapping so that key board mapping is not possible.
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Cleidophoros: So why exactly do I need to buy an Xbox controller to play a PC game?
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kavazovangel: Because you're using a shit-ass controller that is more than 5 years old?

And DirectInput has been obsolete since the release of Vista, so there is no need for carnival73 to cry if a game using new technology doesn't work on his precious 10 year old operating system.

EDIT: Oh, xInput is supported on XP past SP1 too, so, his controller is crappy, I guess.
It's not requiring NEW technology - it's requiring M$ ONLY technology.
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kavazovangel: Because you're using a shit-ass controller that is more than 5 years old?

And DirectInput has been obsolete since the release of Vista, so there is no need for carnival73 to cry if a game using new technology doesn't work on his precious 10 year old operating system.
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StingingVelvet: Indeed.

People update their processors and GPUs all the time, but ask them to get a new controller once in a while and they act like the world is coming to an end. Similarly people add 3D accelerators and gaming mice to standard computers so they can game, but they act like controllers should be banned for being "non-standard."

The fact is controllers pre-date mice as computer gaming mechanisms. They have been a part of PC gaming since the beginning and every PC gamer should have one for certain genres. They should also get a new one every once in a while, because you do that with everything.

/rant
So you're saying that if I run out and get a new Logitech (the one I have now I purchased less than two years ago) it will be compatible with all these games pre-programmed for the 360 game pad?
Post edited November 24, 2011 by carnival73
Posted November 24, 2011
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carnival73: It's not requiring NEW technology - it's requiring M$ ONLY technology.
Dude, do you even know what the fuck xInput is? Or how it eases the work that devs need to do to achieve a good level of compatibility with wide range of controllers?

Nobody is limiting devs to use xInput, but I don't think any sane dev would try to create his own stuff, and not use what is already provided and works pretty good.
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carnival73: So you're saying that if I run out and get a new Logitech (the one I have now I purchased less than two years ago) it will be compatible with all these games pre-programmed for the 360 game pad?
It doesn't matter if you purchased it two years ago, yesterday, or tomorrow. What matters is what technology it is based upon. Do some research next time before buying stuff.

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It is like saying DirectX is bad... I'm pretty sure nobody would like to go to the days before DirectX, where you would have to write code specific to every different model of every GPU, controller, whatever out there.
Post edited November 24, 2011 by kavazovangel
Posted November 24, 2011
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Sogi-Ya: jesus your being an ass
Not really, I am being confronted by FUD like you just posted and have to respond accordingly. He implied there isn't a reason to own a 360 controller without a 360, which is bollocks.

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Sogi-Ya: the "Offical" xbox360 controller for windows costs $70 and all you get is a wireless 360 controller and the wireless PC receiver, on top of that M$ stopped manufacturing the stand alone receiver years ago so even if you HAVE a 360 (I do, and 3 controllers) you will still need to go out and buy the $70 kit.
Wired one works better than anything else and can be had for as low as $20. Got mine on amazon for $20.
Posted November 24, 2011
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Sogi-Ya: jesus your being an ass, the "Offical" xbox360 controller for windows costs $70 and all you get is a wireless 360 controller and the wireless PC receiver, on top of that M$ stopped manufacturing the stand alone receiver years ago so even if you HAVE a 360 (I do, and 3 controllers) you will still need to go out and buy the $70 kit.
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kavazovangel: Or, you can just buy yourself a third party controller that uses current gen technology, and not some old stuff that was popular during the days of DirectX 8.
No matter how old my year-and-a-half old controller made by a garage company no one has ever heard of before like Logitech is - I could get the controller to work if developers stop encrypting Game Pad Configure ini's and hiding game launch executables.
Posted November 24, 2011
My own personal "Fuck You" to Microsofts attempts to force me to buy a controller I didnt want, I bought this instead for XInput games. Supports both DirectInput and XInput.

Has performed for me very nicely :)
Post edited November 24, 2011 by Lenriak
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Playing a fair game with developers that do not(76 posts)(76 posts)
(76 posts)