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General discussion (archive)Planetary Annihilation only £67.99 on Steam(135 posts)(135 posts)
(135 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 16, 2013
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iippo: Do tell me what i did wrong?
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keeveek: That you think by pledging on kickstarter you "paid for the game". This is wrong not only factually but legally as well.
...i am totally aware kickstarters can fail. However i have little doubt this one will do.

However i dont actually understand what youre talking about - so could you clarify a bit what you actually mean? ...and does it actually have something to do with this alpha thing youre complaining about?
Posted June 16, 2013
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SimonG: And how did you know about the phone both?
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spindown: ... ?
If you haven't seen season four yet, you made a huge mistake.
Posted June 16, 2013
I'm thinking they could negate at least some of the ire directed at them if they offered a basic preorder at its standard retail price minus the alpha and beta access. I've heard they offer it on their company website so I'm a little confused as to why they don't offer it on steam as well.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, despite the complaints it's currently the fourth top selling game on steam. More disturbing is 'The War Z', a game widely seen as an outright scam, currently and once again being the top seller.

I think we need to face the sad fact that us gamers are a culture bred to buy. Complain all we may, we still end up throwing great wads of cash at these things. While we do that nothing will change.
Post edited June 16, 2013 by Cormoran
Posted June 16, 2013
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Cormoran: I'm thinking they could negate at least some of the ire directed at them if they offered a basic preorder at its standard retail price minus the alpha and beta access. I've heard they offer it on their company website so I'm a little confused as to why they don't offer it on steam as well.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, despite the complaints it's currently the fourth top selling game on steam. More disturbing is 'The War Z', a game widely seen as an outright scam, currently and once again being the top seller.

I think we need to face the sad fact that us gamers are a culture bred to buy. Complain all we may, we still end up throwing great wads of cash at these things. While we do that nothing will change.
I agree about the bred to buy and disagree that nothing will change, it will change for the worse. Saying no is a Consumers big stick, it is their only stick.

Sadly Kickstarter was the excuse and I find it Ironic that we heralded it as the savoir of gaming but now it's enabling price gouging and people are buying it. Price gouging is the hardest anti-consumer BS you can pull, if you price gouge, it sends your customers to the competition fast as a whistle. To see a company to get away with this because of Kickstarter is just making it the opposite, I really hope the industry resists this, At least the indie side of it.
Posted June 16, 2013
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spindown: ... ?
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SimonG: If you haven't seen season four yet, you made a huge mistake.
Ah, I think you mean the photo booth, not the phone booth ;-)
Posted June 16, 2013
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Cormoran: I'm thinking they could negate at least some of the ire directed at them if they offered a basic preorder at its standard retail price minus the alpha and beta access. I've heard they offer it on their company website so I'm a little confused as to why they don't offer it on steam as well.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, despite the complaints it's currently the fourth top selling game on steam. More disturbing is 'The War Z', a game widely seen as an outright scam, currently and once again being the top seller.

I think we need to face the sad fact that us gamers are a culture bred to buy. Complain all we may, we still end up throwing great wads of cash at these things. While we do that nothing will change.
That was actually explained on the steam forum. too lazy to find the thread, but they way i understood is that the steam list does not count most sold in number of sold - but rather the sum of money. so if you got game that costs 100usd to sell and another that costs 5usd per copy, you only need to sell one copy of the more expensive one to have the same result as 20 copies of the cheaper one. Cant remember if there was mention about did the old KS things count there or only new early access buys.
Posted June 16, 2013
Well, maybe I shouldn't vote this game for GOG :)
Posted June 16, 2013
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SimonG: If you haven't seen season four yet, you made a huge mistake.
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spindown: Ah, I think you mean the photo booth, not the phone booth ;-)
Damn! You are right. How embarrassing. At least there is always money in the banana stand. :-)
Posted June 16, 2013
You know what's genuinely sad about all this? It would seem like most people don't care about Planetary Annihilation's obscene pricing. "How many?" you may ask? Enough to keep it within the Top 10 best-selling games on Steam for the past few days, if not longer. I actually took a picture of what it looked like yesterday at 3:46 PM GMT -5: http://conflictingenius.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/planetaryannihilation_top10.png
Posted June 16, 2013
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iippo: Do tell me what i did wrong?
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keeveek: That you think by pledging on kickstarter you "paid for the game". This is wrong not only factually but legally as well.
Do you actually have a source for this or are you just talking BS?

I paid for the 15$ reward tier that includes the digital retail version.
Here is what Kickstarter ToS says:

"Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill."

This whole "You don't pay for the game, you fund it!" is pretty much retarded. No sane person would invest in something without expecting a return. Except for some do-gooders. Charity excluded.
It's not like you'd buy stocks and say: "Nah, just keep the money".
Posted June 16, 2013
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Expack: You know what's genuinely sad about all this? It would seem like most people don't care about Planetary Annihilation's obscene pricing. "How many?" you may ask? Enough to keep it within the Top 10 best-selling games on Steam for the past few days, if not longer. I actually took a picture of what it looked like yesterday at 3:46 PM GMT -5: http://conflictingenius.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/planetaryannihilation_top10.png
Nothing wrong with the full games pricing. Thats the alpha access, which is kinda VIP for before mentioned reasons.

...you bet there would be big ruckus if the actual full game cost that much on release. But luckily enough this wont be following AAA console game/COD pricing at that point.
Posted June 16, 2013
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Expack: You know what's genuinely sad about all this? It would seem like most people don't care about Planetary Annihilation's obscene pricing. "How many?" you may ask? Enough to keep it within the Top 10 best-selling games on Steam for the past few days, if not longer. I actually took a picture of what it looked like yesterday at 3:46 PM GMT -5: http://conflictingenius.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/planetaryannihilation_top10.png
How is it sad that many people seem to have more disposable income than you or I? I guess it's sad that they are not using those 90 bucks for a charitable cause but somehow I don't think that's what you meant.
Posted June 16, 2013
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Megalazor: This whole "You don't pay for the game, you fund it!" is pretty much retarded. No sane person would invest in something without expecting a return. Except for some do-gooders. Charity excluded.
It's not like you'd buy stocks and say: "Nah, just keep the money".
There is something like public promising (I don't know how it's translated correctly). If one of your rewards is access to alpha build of the game, they have to provide it if something like that exists.

There are numerous examples when companies failed to finish the game / product and did not offer rewards and did not pay the money back.

The major difference between buying a game and pledging a kickstarter, is when you buy a game, the vendor has to deliver the product. With kickstarter, they are obliged to do their reasonable best to provide you with a game, but they are not obliged to give you money back if they failed to do so and filed for bankruptcy.

So yes, you shouldn't give money on kickstarter, if you're thinking you're paying for a product. Of course Kickstarter ToS obliges them to give the money back, but they can't enforce it in some occasions. For example, if one of the rewards was a soundtrack from a game that wasn't even made, it's obvious they will not deliver the soundtrack.

But even if they could enforce it (good luck doing so after they file for bankruptcy), they would be obliged only to give you money back for bonuses, not for the main product that wasn't finished despite their best efforts.

Under taking money from kickstarter, the devs are only obliged to work hard and try their best, not to deliver anything. If they fail to deliver without their responsibility, there's not much you can do. There was a thread of a guy who pledged over 1k dollars on various kickstarters and most of them failed to deliver what they promised.
Post edited June 16, 2013 by keeveek
Posted June 16, 2013
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Megalazor: This whole "You don't pay for the game, you fund it!" is pretty much retarded. No sane person would invest in something without expecting a return. Except for some do-gooders. Charity excluded.
It's not like you'd buy stocks and say: "Nah, just keep the money".
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keeveek: There is something like public promising (I don't know how it's translated correctly). If one of your rewards is access to alpha build of the game, they have to provide it if something like that exists.

There are numerous examples when companies failed to finish the game / product and did not offer rewards and did not pay the money back.

The major difference between buying a game and pledging a kickstarter, is when you buy a game, the vendor has to deliver the product. With kickstarter, they are obliged to do their reasonable best to provide you with a game, but they are not obliged to give you money back if they failed to do so and filed for bankruptcy.

So yes, you shouldn't give money on kickstarter, if you're thinking you're paying for a product. Of course Kickstarter ToS obliges them to give the money back, but they can't enforce it in some occasions. For example, if one of the rewards was a soundtrack from a game that wasn't even made, it's obvious they will not deliver the soundtrack.

But even if they could enforce it (good luck doing so after they file for bankruptcy), they would be obliged only to give you money back for bonuses, not for the main product that wasn't finished despite their best efforts.

Under taking money from kickstarter, the devs are only obliged to work hard and try their best, not to deliver anything. If they fail to deliver without their responsibility, there's not much you can do. There was a thread of a guy who pledged over 1k dollars on various kickstarters and most of them failed to deliver what they promised.
...certainly it is clear for everyone, that there are risks with kickstarter. However i dont see PA being very high risk one. Neither i see that this has anything to do with your complaint about the early access price.

These are totally separate issues.

anyways: " There are numerous examples when companies failed to finish the game / product and did not offer rewards and did not pay the money back."

So far i am actually aware for like two games (some ghost house game was the first, frankly cant remember about the second), which has very few people pledging in them in the first place. To my knowledge no "major" pledge has been unsuccesful.

If you got proof otherwise, id be interested to read about this. Anyways, all 5 Kickstarters ive thrown money in to are looking good - time will tell ofcourse.

...but perhaps its better not to put more money in KS that you can lose in the first place?
Posted June 16, 2013
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Expack: You know what's genuinely sad about all this? It would seem like most people don't care about Planetary Annihilation's obscene pricing. "How many?" you may ask? Enough to keep it within the Top 10 best-selling games on Steam for the past few days, if not longer. I actually took a picture of what it looked like yesterday at 3:46 PM GMT -5: http://conflictingenius.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/planetaryannihilation_top10.png
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Shaolin_sKunk: How is it sad that many people seem to have more disposable income than you or I? I guess it's sad that they are not using those 90 bucks for a charitable cause but somehow I don't think that's what you meant.
The sad thing is I'm rather confident that the very Steam users who are complaining about the price have bought Planetary Annihilation and are playing it as we speak. It's somewhat like the whole Modern Warfare 2 boycott from years ago.
Post edited June 16, 2013 by Expack
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Planetary Annihilation only £67.99 on Steam(135 posts)(135 posts)
(135 posts)