I've only read the first post, btw you have good taste in games. The only criticism I would make is that some of them are indie games and, well, if you liked them I think you should buy them as those guys are not exactly rolling in dough, but thats just a personal thing.

I had to hit TPB the other day, as I transferred 16 gigs of games to a San*shit*Disc drive and the fucking thing didnt work and I lost the games because like a fool, I chose to CUT and Paste, anyway, beware of San*shitDisc drives, some can have a problem with formatting, check google.

So, I hit TPB and got what I needed, I was surprised to see a fuckload of gog games there. :(

Anyway, I tend to download games I am on the fence about and buy them if I like them. On saying that, I had Dead Island on Steam and it got buggered up, so now I use a TPB version that actually works.

Either way, its not for me to comment on whether you are doing right or wrong, I personally only do it as outlined above.

This isn't exactly a very good counter. As an example. I read reviews, checked out videos, played the demo of Space Pirates and Zombies. It seemed interesting at first but all that wasn't enough to make me want the game. Later I had a chance to get a pirated copy (a GOG version I think but I don't actually remember) so I took the chance and gave it another try. I liked it quite a lot and even beat the game which is a rare occurrence for me in games anymore. So the next chance I had I went and bought the game on Steam. So by your logic this makes me a monster even though piracy won the devs another sale that they otherwise would never have made?

(Before I start I feel the need to explain that I divide up text in replies to make it easier for me to organize my thought and reply to other's thought/replies.)

It may not wash in your case but for many i'm willing to bet it is (one of)the real reason(s) why they don't like piracy/those who pirate.
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For some, maybe.......but based on a good number of the comments i've read against piracy(both here in the past and elsewhere online) it seems many are just upset that someone got something/is getting something without paying that they paid for. The fact that the seller possibly lost money probably factors into it for some who think this way but in the end many are probably
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Not all pirates pirate because they feel games aren't worth the asking price.....if I may ask: Do you truly think all pirate do it for the reason you stated or are you just using that line to support your argument?
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Or pirates can "demo" a game and see if they like it before they buy it.....to each his own. Just because you/others have moral hangups over doing something doesn't mean such things aren't viable options/universally morally wrong for everyone.
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To be clear I was responding in general when I replied previously to your post(When I said that most against piracy are probably against it because they're jealous of others getting stuff for free.). I wasn't trying to insinuate what your motives behind thinking as you do are/were. If it seemed that way I apologize for any misunderstanding.
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I think you forgot to add IMO right before the words "that does not"......not everyone has the same moral value set/belief set so this doesn't apply to everyone. And again, not everyone pirates for that exact reason(or for petty reasons).

(Saying/implying that everyone pirates because they dislike having to pay for stuff/having to pay a certain price for stuff is like saying/implying every pirate sells copies for profit online/offline, or that every pirate is doing it to ruin the gaming industry.)

Also how is playing a friend's game copy then buying your own copy later in a sale any worse(morally speaking/etc) than pirating a copy and then buying it later in a sale? (I ask as it also seems a good number of those against piracy have no qualms with people borrowing/playing/finishing a friend's copy of a game for free before buying their own copy later but they do dislike it when people pirate a game and play it before buying it in a sale.) The only real(legal) difference I see is that one is illegal in many places while another isn't.

I was thinking of getting lucius is it bad?

As regards the indies, I had a brain fart as I was typing in a hurry, i meant gog games and the fart continued with indies not getting much money, apologies for that :(

I see Shadowman and the two Two World games, they dont get alot of love, but I liked them alot, reading through the list has me thinking of getting out the stepladder and heading up to the attic for a root around my stored games for some of the titles you mentioned, to play them again, I could nearly "save" your list and use it as my own lol :)

+1.....add to that companies selling/releasing old games on newer systems at over-inflated prices(25-30 bucks a game) to those who probably already own a copy of the game in cartridge/etc form.
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I also crack most of my(legally purchased) games(minus the DRM-free ones from sites like GOG/GG/etc, and games tied to a client like Steam). F**k having to deal with activations(limited or otherwise), games needing to be always online(even during SP) to authenticate that you paid for them/own them, etc.
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Agreed 110%

I became legit now for video games but I still support piracy. Unless it's an amazing deal I always see how the album or film is before I choose to buy it. I have a decent sized collection for now (~100 cds/vinyls and ~50 dvds/blurays) but it will definitely increase when I finish university and get a job. Also since I watch and listen to incredibly obscure stuff at times, many of them are either extremely rare or don't even have a release, so I have the option of either downloading it or never watching/listening to it.

First, ballsy / provocative thread. :)

Your first posts were not questions, you actually said you wanted to simply express yourself.
Later you show potential interest in a debate. So I'm jumping in.

You brought up the word bad, possibly tongue in cheek.
But I agree; the whole topic of piracy is a moral debate, the legality of it is a distraction.

The moral debate is whether you should or not impose your selfish will on the"moral" owner of the work.
Yes, owner, not creator - assuming the creator sold the copyright uncoerced it makes no difference. If you disagree then we shouldn't debate piracy - we can debate capitalism, goals of copyright, philosophy of liberty etc...

Pirating you disrespect the choice of the owner to make something available only under certain conditions.
You sure have the power, but what gives you the right to do that?
You rationalize it: the price should be lower, there should be a demo, the demo should be bigger, I should pay only if I like the ending, the language should be different... take your pick.

In my opinion the ethics are clear. You didn't rape anyone, nor did you actually steal anything but you sure as hell abused, disrespected and completely invalidated someone's will and freedom to choose.

So the bottom line; power corrupts. Not very original...
Going back to the start; what is original is your level of self reflection. Kudos again.


Extra food for thought:
Have you noticed how the piracy debate is a showcase of human bias to value the material over the intelectual?
Consider the typical "it's not theft, it's only copyright infringement" or the tendency to justify piracy by invoking ends rather than means - ergo the monetary benefits, as if the $$ is the end all, be all of existence.

I usually pirate a game and test it before purchasing it, unless it's from developers i really trust. I've preordered too many games and ended up regreting it afterwards, so I prefer pirating and testing them first.

Yeah, with the general receeding of demos for AAA games I occasionally do this as well (unless it's cheap enough to not feel like a waste even if I don't really like it, like GOG's lower price points).

Can't tell if some/all of this post is sarcasm, but here goes:

So what about playing(part/all of) a friend's game copies? Are your views on the matter really that black and white?
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Lots of things are illegal that shouldn't be......just because something is illegal doesn't mean it should be or that you shouldn't do something just because it's illegal(For example: In the US it used to be illegal to drink alcohol, and it is currently illegal to smoke Marijuana.).
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Many reviews are biased(Some heavily so, and some are no more[figuratively/literally] than paid advertisements for the game), not all game makers releases demos for their games(and sometimes they just release a non-interactive preview that only showcases the best bits of the game in question), and none of the above sources that you listed will tell you if a PC title will run for certain on your system.
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Karma is overrated

Also, one can always launder their karma if it gets too messy.

/silly mode off
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I wish more things in life were easy, but they aren't.

Okay, here my answers:

He wasn't playing with a friend. There at least one of two pays. That's okay and I accept it. But it doesn't apply here. So I must write: Him playing the game alone without paying is piracy and I am quite sure about it.

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The laws are made in a democratic process and are in a way the average morale of all people. I respect this. On the other hand I also find piracy is wrong by my own standards. But I didn't want to argument with my own morale. It's so subjective. So I most of the times use legality as the common ground. But in his case with money being basically no problem I additionally can say that I think it's wrong myself.

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My guess is that most pirates play a game through and never buy it later on. They don't only test and as soon as they realize that it runs and is decent they all go and buy. I don't think this is how humans behave.

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Karma might be overrated but probably it comes down to this. There are people who pirate and there are people who don't and there are people who did it in the past and so on... The difference is not really the money they have (for some it might)... it's probably something like karma, or what do you think is the difference?

I hope I could explain what I meant.

Ballsy? Well, I didn't start the thread because I was morally conflicted or because I felt bad, nor did I want GOG community's permision for anything. I had 2 main goals: explaining myself, as I don't like hiding stuff that could blow up on my face later on; and curiosity as to if I was the only one doing this. Apparently I'm not.

So I never intended to debate on the piracy issue itself. Not that I dislike debating this stuff, but I much rather do it in a pub over a beer than typing it all out on the internet. You do raise some interesting points, however, I completely agree that it is a moral issue but I had never considered the edge you bring up here. If the owners feel like doing something that is obviously stupid to my eyes, I shouldn't force my criteria into them. It kinda reminds me arguments I had with some flatmates during university, and I find myself on the opposite side. It's certainly a fair point.

I can counter it for the most part within my own value system, but it's a tough one. I don't particularly care about the disrespected part, as I don't see the relation with the owners (i.e. corporations) as one of mutual respect; and the abusing part is extremely relative, but I think it's not my case (although the temptation is clear). But the last part about invalidating freedom really got to me and hit were it hurts. Not enough to make me change my ways, but enough to feel bad about it.

So, to honor the feeling, I think I won't be pirating this particular one. This of course means I won't be buying it either, not until I see it dirt cheap at least. I'll just take advantage of the Square weekend to get a game that was recently recommended to me, and give away a copy of DX when they predictably put it on super sale.

As for your extra food, that is indeed interesting. I'll have to bring it up next time I'm over a beer with friends, and see where it leads us.
Cheers to that! Couldn't agree more. While I understand that a society without laws would be pretty damn hard to live in, I honestly believe in standing by your morals, civil disobedience and shit like that. Not that it directly compares with piracy, but still.

Some do behave like that, I made my steam profile public to prove that I'm not lying on that point. Then again, I am a pineapple, so maybe I don't count...

I do agree in that it's a system very easy to abuse, and many people would fall to the temptation of not paying afterwards. But I personally do, and I wanted to know if more people did as I do. Apparently so. Now, I won't claim this is representative of the pirating community. But it does happen.

In my experience, pretty much everyone I know who pirates a game either eventually buys it or never even comes close to finishing it because it's just not something they actually want.