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General discussion (archive)Piracy and Consequences(69 posts)(69 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 18, 2012
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Thunderstone: I'm just going to link to some sites with the definition of theft and piracy
Theft: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/theft-larceny-definition.html
"Theft/larceny is typically defined as the taking of almost anything of value without the consent of the owner, with the intent to permanently deprive him or her of the value of the property taken. Most states recognize degrees of theft, such as "grand" or "petty," which usually relate to the value of the property taken.
it says "value" not "item" The value of ip is in selling copies so how is free copies without consent not depriving value then?

Besides the commonsense important part is the "taking without consent of the owner" bit Even if you stole some worthless piece of shit like somebody's bellybutton lint and even if they didn't have any personal or sentimental value to it whatsoever why would that be excluded if they cared to call you on it on principal?
Post edited December 18, 2012 by pseudonarne
Posted December 18, 2012
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Egotomb: Does copyright law exist to serve the IP holder or the tax man?
Copyright law exist to protect creative process and innovation. If you can't sell your product, why research/write it?
Posted December 18, 2012
Pirates should be forced to start a GOG account and take part in their amazing sales!
Posted December 18, 2012
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Egotomb: Does copyright law exist to serve the IP holder or the tax man?
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SimonG: Copyright law exist to protect creative process and innovation. If you can't sell your product, why research/write it?
Simon stop making sense. I'm trying to enjoy a few brandy's here. :)
Posted December 18, 2012
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pseudonarne: So you're saying its theft but the only difference is security and detection measures.....thats what birthed drm....
and thats terrible. :)
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luminusjohn: No, I'm saying that unique stocking number is what differentiates you from physically stealing the album from a store and just downloading a "copy." Unless I'm mistaken the main question I was answering is "Why is the physical CD different from a copy?" And it's that stocking number. The stocking numbers aren't used for security or detection measures but rather as inventory control.
ah, sorry read that wrong....in that case how is cracking any different than scraping that stock number off and leaving the sticker behind? Software has cd keys that label them as inventory control. Or what if somebody forgot to enter that copy into the system or they left one off.

Its theft because if you asked a 5 year old who never saw commercials like this he'd still say it was its obvious. Then again I appear to have confused laws with commonsense again so...
edit- as far as legal type examples instead:
If a [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/15/ronald-page-gambling-spree_n_1599545.html]accidentally 100000 into your account and you withdrawing it is theft legally
how is it not to download somebody's software that they sell for free because somebody else with no right to do so cracked it?
or
You can't copy money why can you copy software? Counterfeiting doesn't remove any $ from the system or take it out of anybody's pocket or destroy anything. Just like sharing gog installers on the internet doesn't.
Post edited December 18, 2012 by pseudonarne
Posted December 18, 2012
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pseudonarne: If a bank accidentally dumping 100000 into your account and you withdrawing it is theft legally
Actually, it's not. They have 2 weeks or so to recall the error, but after that the money is yours to do as you wish. And yes, there has been priors on that, let me dig up the story.

Edit: Patrick Combs and the spam "check"
Post edited December 18, 2012 by JMich
Posted December 18, 2012
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pseudonarne: ah, sorry read that wrong....in that case how is cracking any different than scraping that stock number off and leaving the sticker behind? Software has cd keys that label them as inventory control. Or what if somebody forgot to enter that copy into the system or they left one off.



If a bank accidentally dumping 100000 into your account and you withdrawing it is theft legally
how is it not to download somebody's software that they sell for free because somebody else with no right to do so cracked it?
You make a good point about the software keys. That is one example where purely digital piracy can affect something that (I suppose?) can't just have infinite copies.
Posted December 18, 2012
It sure should be a LOT different laws punishment compared to, ya know? REAL crimes breaking lives.. ?

Such, an internet pirate might get more years in prison than a rapist or homicidal freak? Like, REALLY??
Post edited September 07, 2014 by koima57
Posted December 18, 2012
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keeveek: The ultimate consequence of piracy are earthquakes and tsunamis.

Also, if the end of the world happens 12/21 , you may blame piracy for that too.

As you can see, the only suitable punishment for such actions should be sending straight to hell.
Oh no... I PIRATED HITMAN:CONTRACTS JUST 1 DAY BEFORE THAT BIG EARTHQUAKE IN JAPAN !!!
Posted December 18, 2012
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JMich: Patrick Combs and the spam "check"
ah, sorry had wandered off to add examples...shouldn't have posted before I did that

heres some opposite yours that I was thinking of when I posted that
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/sav/Nov06_bank_errora1.asp
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/15/ronald-page-gambling-spree_n_1599545.html
even says bank didn't notice for 2 weeks and he still went to jail when he couldn't return it.
this couple got as far as quititng jobs and moving to flordia http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30860773/ns/world_news-weird_news/t/couple-withdraws-money-flees-after-bank-error/ which must have taken some time

so I guess its a crapshoot
Post edited December 18, 2012 by pseudonarne
Posted December 18, 2012
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pseudonarne: And you see that excuse alot but how many do you really think download a copy for free and then buy a 2nd one for no reason just to pay for it any more than that shoplifter is going back with money when he gets some?

So at least that bit should be treated the same imo
I do, for one. And I do it very, very often. I can't talk for other people, or give you numbers, but I assure you it does happen.


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StonerMk2: Funny part is they really dont treat pirates bad/worse, they treat customers bad/worse and the pirates get the best form of the game, completely DRM free and without service problems that comes from whatever bullshit DRM they throw in their game. IE Ubisoft and Uplay.
This. Sooooo much this. Playing Assassin's creed 2, I was actually wishing I had it pirated instead of original. And, were it not for my circumstances at the time, I would have.
Posted December 18, 2012
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pseudonarne: And you see that excuse alot but how many do you really think download a copy for free and then buy a 2nd one for no reason just to pay for it any more than that shoplifter is going back with money when he gets some?

So at least that bit should be treated the same imo
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P1na: I do, for one. And I do it very, very often. I can't talk for other people, or give you numbers, but I assure you it does happen.


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StonerMk2: Funny part is they really dont treat pirates bad/worse, they treat customers bad/worse and the pirates get the best form of the game, completely DRM free and without service problems that comes from whatever bullshit DRM they throw in their game. IE Ubisoft and Uplay.
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P1na: This. Sooooo much this. Playing Assassin's creed 2, I was actually wishing I had it pirated instead of original.
Yeah, same with me when I tried to play Spore..... last ea game I'll ever buy
Post edited December 18, 2012 by pseudonarne
Posted December 18, 2012
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koima57: It sure should be a LOT different laws punishment compared to, ya know? REALcrimes breaking lives.. ?

Such, an internet pirate might get more years in prison than a rapist or homicidal freak? Like, REALLY??
Well, big corporations don't lose much of anything to a rape or a murder. So it's entirely proportionate... to what's within corporate interests.
Posted December 18, 2012
It should be a charge proportionate to age and income, I know that makes a lot of cases individual, but I'd have alot more against a multi-millionaire pirating a game when he can easily buy it, rather then a 14 year old teen. of course, In all ages, the original price of the product should definitely be covered, and if the crime was committed by a teen and his parents had to cover, I'm almost sure he'd get punished by them also.
Posted December 18, 2012
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Gazoinks: Wouldn't it make sense to just charge the cost of whatever they were pirating and then maybe a little extra as a punishment?
Nah, because then it would still make sense to pirate, and only pay up when you get caught.

I see it as a somewhat similar thing as riding a train/bus without a ticket. At least here there's quite a bit of that extra you have to pay on top of the missing fare (the ticket is e.g. 5€, and the extra punishment about 80€ I think).

I guess actively sharing pirated material to many people is then somewhat similar to making copies of train/bus tickets, and handing them out to your friends and others.

I think in France they are using some kind of "three strikes and you're out" system, where the "out" means cancelling your internet connection. But considering rest of your family, as well as the perpetrator, might still need the internet for work, buying stuff online etc., that's too harsh a punishment nowadays, a bit like not being allowed to speak on the phone anymore. But at least it doesn't come from mere one lapse, and the punishments can always be temporary.
Post edited December 18, 2012 by timppu
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Piracy and Consequences(69 posts)(69 posts)
(69 posts)