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General discussion (archive)People who support DRM(217 posts)(217 posts)
(217 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 24, 2012
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Tallima: HL1 is a worse game, but got double the sales. DRM free.

HL2 is a better game, but was choked full of DRM. 1/2 the sales. Pirated more.
First: I'm wondering what you base the fact on which one is better.
Secondly: Huge amounts of people bought HL1 in order to play Counter-Strike online (because they did need a valid serial key which is DRM).

You've just been lawyered.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Licurg: You could just punch him in the face. It won't help your argument, but you'll feel better.
If you kick them in the balls they usually bend over, you can then knee them in the face, less work for your arms that way:)
Posted October 24, 2012
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Tallima: HL1 is a worse game, but got double the sales. DRM free.

HL2 is a better game, but was choked full of DRM. 1/2 the sales. Pirated more.
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F4LL0UT: First: I'm wondering what you base the fact on which one is better.
Secondly: Huge amounts of people bought HL1 in order to play Counter-Strike online (because they did need a valid serial key which is DRM).

You've just been lawyered.
Well that I do think HL1 was a better game HL2 AI was atrocious. But I do agree with you on the sames aspect.
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KyleKatarn: Just to add more fuel to the fire, which you are probably already aware of, the boxed copy was the best-selling variety by quite a large margin. Perhaps people who bought this version downloaded a pirate version to get rid of that kind of DRM and felt they should be able to since they are paying customers. Why should a paying customer be inconvenienced like that? Perhaps many people who got threatening letters in the mail in Germany regarding this particular game had boxed copies sitting on their shelves already...

Perhaps not though too.
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Darling_Jimmy: It's a fair point. I download cracked copies of DRMed games that I purchased.
Guilty as charged, wasn't sure if it wise to admitting to such things on the forums.
Post edited October 24, 2012 by Magmarock
Posted October 24, 2012
DRM reduces piracy. What world are you living in? It doesn't reduce hardcore piracy. It more-or-less destroys the piracy done by casuals.

Real world example, StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3. Quite a few long-time SC and WC3 lovers here still haven't gotten around to playing them. Each one of them that I ask tells me because a good crack doesn't exist.

EDIT: Most computer stores here actually install Warcraft 3 for you with Eurobattle.net, Garena and some similar crap.
Post edited October 24, 2012 by Elenarie
Posted October 24, 2012
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Tallima: HL1 is a worse game, but got double the sales. DRM free.

HL2 is a better game, but was choked full of DRM. 1/2 the sales. Pirated more.
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F4LL0UT: First: I'm wondering what you base the fact on which one is better.
Secondly: Huge amounts of people bought HL1 in order to play Counter-Strike online (because they did need a valid serial key which is DRM).

You've just been lawyered.
My data was from memory from an article I read years ago about DRM. But I metacriticed the game and HL2 got just 0.1 less by user score (9.2 vs 9.1) and both got a 96 by pro reviews.

There may be many differences about why one game was chosen over another in the market. But one major aspect was DRM and pirates. Did it get pirated more b/c of DRM? Did people not want to deal with the DRM and pirate it to get away from the DRM?

There are too many variables to be certain. But HL1 and 2 are sometimes used almost like identical twins in genetics. They have one major difference -- DRM vs non-DRM. But as I said, there's really tons of differences (like 1. being different games, 2. having different features, 3. Internet speed differences at release, 4.5.6... yada yada yada)
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: says that DRM-free is more pirated then DRM protected software.
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retsuseiba: Citation needed.

Why should you bother with stats and data to counterargue him when he doesn't even have any data to back his own theory?
Normally I wouldn't, but this is persistent.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Tallima: There are too many variables to be certain. But HL1 and 2 are sometimes used almost like identical twins in genetics. They have one major difference -- DRM vs non-DRM. But as I said, there's really tons of differences (like 1. being different games, 2. having different features, 3. Internet speed differences at release, 4.5.6... yada yada yada)
I think there's no way to compare these games simply because of the distant release dates and many many other factors. And I still say that this comparison is automatically disqualified because of HL1 being bought massively because of Counter-Strike which is a totally different product than HL2 AND additionally is an online game that later on forced people into having valid serial keys (this way HL1 has a more restrictive DRM than HL2 does being almost purely a singleplayer game - so the whole non-DRM vs DRM thing doesn't add up).
Posted October 24, 2012
I wonder if there are other examples of DRM hurting sales. With the Witcher 2, it seemed to help sales. People were willing to get DRM in exchange for physical copies.

What I LOVED about TW2 was that GOG let you get a GOG copy, too. That's service with a capital service.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: *wall of text*
No point in arguing with this gentleman. Just nod and smile and walk away. It's like arguing politics or religion with people who are followers/supporters of said things you are arguing against, it's a waste of time and breath and I'm sure there's a lot of gaming that you need to get done rather than argue things that people can't open their eyes to.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: Yeah I know we all agree, that's why I'm asking for help at batter presenting the argument. I know it's kind of petty, but I really think DRM is dangerous to the industry, and piracy might get the blame for what DRM causes.
Something you need to understand is that it simply isn't worth having a discussion with some people. Ideologues, sophists, zealots, etc- there's nothing worthwhile that can come out of a discussion with such people. You're not going to convince them of anything- the stronger the argument you present, the shriller their protestations will become. But more importantly, their counterarguments won't contain anything of benefit to you. That's the important thing to recognize- a big reason to have discussions with others is to expose yourself to perspectives that you may not have considered, to improve yourself and your own views on things. If neither person in a discussion is able or willing to benefit in such a way then the discussion is a complete waste of time.

Ultimately you have to be able to recognize when you are no longer dealing with a rational person, and then just write them off. Ignore them, work around them, if necessary remove them from being a problem; but trying to reason or argue with such people is utterly pointless. Life is too short to waste time on that.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: Yeah I know we all agree, that's why I'm asking for help at batter presenting the argument. I know it's kind of petty, but I really think DRM is dangerous to the industry, and piracy might get the blame for what DRM causes.
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DarrkPhoenix: Something you need to understand is that it simply isn't worth having a discussion with some people. Ideologues, sophists, zealots, etc- there's nothing worthwhile that can come out of a discussion with such people. You're not going to convince them of anything- the stronger the argument you present, the shriller their protestations will become. But more importantly, their counterarguments won't contain anything of benefit to you. That's the important thing to recognize- a big reason to have discussions with others is to expose yourself to perspectives that you may not have considered, to improve yourself and your own views on things. If neither person in a discussion is able or willing to benefit in such a way then the discussion is a complete waste of time.

Ultimately you have to be able to recognize when you are no longer dealing with a rational person, and then just write them off. Ignore them, work around them, if necessary remove them from being a problem; but trying to reason or argue with such people is utterly pointless. Life is too short to waste time on that.
Yeah, this is a trap that I think anyone can fall into. The mature thing is always to just accept that it's not going anywhere and just walk away. However,it sounds a lot easier then it is.
Posted October 24, 2012
DRM and piracy is similar to the war on drugs and drug use.

Not exactly the same, but similar dynamics. Does the law create the abuse, or does the abuse create the law?

Chicken and egg. Either way I'm hungry.
Posted October 24, 2012
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mondo84: DRM and piracy is similar to the war on drugs and drug use.

Not exactly the same, but similar dynamics. Does the law create the abuse, or does the abuse create the law?

Chicken and egg. Either way I'm hungry.
*Gives you some bacon and eggs with a side of hash*

:P
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: Yeah I know we all agree, that's why I'm asking for help at batter presenting the argument. I know it's kind of petty, but I really think DRM is dangerous to the industry, and piracy might get the blame for what DRM causes.
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DarrkPhoenix: Something you need to understand is that it simply isn't worth having a discussion with some people. Ideologues, sophists, zealots, etc- there's nothing worthwhile that can come out of a discussion with such people. You're not going to convince them of anything- the stronger the argument you present, the shriller their protestations will become. But more importantly, their counterarguments won't contain anything of benefit to you. That's the important thing to recognize- a big reason to have discussions with others is to expose yourself to perspectives that you may not have considered, to improve yourself and your own views on things. If neither person in a discussion is able or willing to benefit in such a way then the discussion is a complete waste of time.

Ultimately you have to be able to recognize when you are no longer dealing with a rational person, and then just write them off. Ignore them, work around them, if necessary remove them from being a problem; but trying to reason or argue with such people is utterly pointless. Life is too short to waste time on that.
This reminds me of the last person who posted here a few months ago about DRM, who purported to be interested in an "academic" discussion of DRM, but pretty much did nothing but accuse everyone who disagreed with him of cherry picking quotes so he could prop up his own egotistic arguments.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: Yeah, this is a trap that I think anyone can fall into. The mature thing is always to just accept that it's not going anywhere and just walk away. However,it sounds a lot easier then it is.
Of course. Anything that involves getting one's ego under control is much easier said than done. Typically it requires getting so frustrated with such discussions that you finally ask yourself "Why the hell am I spending my time on this?"
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)People who support DRM(217 posts)(217 posts)
(217 posts)