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General discussion (archive)People who support DRM(217 posts)(217 posts)
(217 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 24, 2012
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Nirth: About DRM itself. It's like this, from a consumer perspective I see it is is an inconvenience depending on the situation (e.g always online is a deal breaker if you don't have a fast internet connection or don't accept limited installations because you travel a lot and use a laptop) as a worse case scenario, that's why I prefer DRM-free as I know that I'll face a situation that it will become an inconvenience, sooner or later.

From a business perspective, I would certainly use DRM on my product as long as it's cost-effective e.g probably avoid any kind of always online but using some kind of protection related to a CD-key check. You have to do something to protect your intellectual property.
+1 above

Don't bother trying to convince him. You see dip sticks like this in the Steam forums. Activation limits are a deal breaker for me. Yet you will see people defend this DRM and accuse you of being stupid or a pirate. "Why do activation limits bother you? Why do you need to install the game more than once? The only people that would complain are pirates" Seriously I don't know if they are real people or company shills.

Don't waste your time, speak with your money.
Posted October 24, 2012
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SimonG: Now, you can call it what you want. But effectively DD killed of the second hand with what I call "account based DRM". Like even GOG uses.
I don't think that limiting who can download the software through official channels can be called DRM - it's almost like saying that it's DRM that shops can't just hand out physical copies to everyone for free. What counts is that I can create as many copies as I want without any additional effort.
Posted October 24, 2012
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SimonG: ...
For DRM being useless against piracy, I'd say only partially useless.

I'm not saying it's the only agenda, but it does stop casual piracy (people who don't know jack shit about software or where to get a pirated version, but would like to give a copy to their friend).

However, even if it stops casual piracy, there is still an unspoken ethical question: Do you want to screw all your supportive legitimate users over to save a couple of sales?

For trading games, I think you are overestimating the extent of the practice.

I'm sure it's a significant portion of the market, but I would resist calling it your typical practice that would by itself bankrupt an industry.

I never traded games with any of my friends and I have heard very few people talk about trading games in my extended circle of acquaintances.

Back when my local EB Games store was still selling games, the used games section was about 10% of the store.

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book99: "Why do activation limits bother you? Why do you need to install the game more than once? The only people that would complain are pirates" Seriously I don't know if they are real people or company shills.
That's called reformating your hard drive or getting a new computer.

It goes happens every couple of years in some people's lifetime.

Edit: Nevermind, I misread your post. We agree on this.
Post edited October 24, 2012 by Magnitus
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: Anyway, no matter what data I show him or what argument I present to him I just can’t get him to see that DRM is ruining the games industry.
Why even go that far? Companies have the right to decide how they want to distribute their products... and I have the right not to buy their shit-infested pile of puke, if I don't like their terms. I am not a charity, I am a consumer. If your product is garbage, I'm not going to buy it, and DRM decreases the quality of the product. The heavier your DRM gets, the less valuable the product becomes. Simple as that.

If he doesn't support your right to not buy certain luxury items, then he's either a troll or a titanic idiot. Neither are worth your time.

Besides, if you're saying that this guy goes out of his way to make you look foolish in public, then you're better off not even speaking to him. People like that are not interested in discussion, they're interested in pissing you off because they and their groupies think it's funny.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magnitus: I'm sure it's a significant portion of the market, but I would resist calling it your typical practice that would by itself bankrupt an industry.
Gamespot is running on this premise. And just remember the videogame section of ebay in the late '90s. Used games are "worse" for the publisher than piracy, as piracy is hardly a lost sale, as most people are too poor to afford games anyway. But used games "syphon" legitimate buyers money of the main market into the pockets of some dude with an ebay account.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Licurg: You could just punch him in the face. It won't help your argument, but you'll feel better.
He could kick my ass in a fight :/
Posted October 24, 2012
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SimonG: Now, you can call it what you want. But effectively DD killed of the second hand with what I call "account based DRM". Like even GOG uses.
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F4LL0UT: I don't think that limiting who can download the software through official channels can be called DRM - it's almost like saying that it's DRM that shops can't just hand out physical copies to everyone for free. What counts is that I can create as many copies as I want without any additional effort.
As I said, call it what you want. But for phyiscal copies the first sale doctrine allowed resale. All digital items are exempt from this. I would call this "digital rights management". Heck, that is more DRM that the usually accepted usage that I would rather call "copy protection".
Posted October 24, 2012
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jamyskis: You're preaching to the converted and quoting facts that are basically well established to those of us that have our eyes open, to be honest.
Yeah I know we all agree, that's why I'm asking for help at batter presenting the argument. I know it's kind of petty, but I really think DRM is dangerous to the industry, and piracy might get the blame for what DRM causes.
Posted October 24, 2012
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SimonG: As I said, call it what you want. But for phyiscal copies the first sale doctrine allowed resale. All digital items are exempt from this. I would call this "digital rights management". Heck, that is more DRM that the usually accepted usage that I would rather call "copy protection".
So what, the account system would not be DRM anymore if people were able to transfer their items to other accounts? I'm wondering how distribution would have to work in your opinion so you won't refer to it as DRM anymore.
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magnitus: However, even if it stops casual piracy, there is still an unspoken ethical question: Do you want to screw all your supportive legitimate users over to save a couple of sales?
It depends on the DRM used. Take Steam for an example. For me it worked flawlessly since I started using it in '09. On the other hand, disc based copy protection was a huge pita for just about every game it came with.

I think the impact on some forms of DRMs on the target audience is not as big many make it to be. Most issue people have are due to the fact that they don't have a stable internet connection. Which is, while unfortunate for those affected, ultimately also a sign that you are no longer part of the target market.

And that doesn't bother me personally, as when a publisher no longer sees you as part of the market, there is no harm in pirating a game you cannot get legally. And one of the other nice side effects of Steam is that games are a lot easier to pirate nowadays than before.
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F4LL0UT: So what, the account system would not be DRM anymore if people were able to transfer their items to other accounts? I'm wondering how distribution would have to work in your opinion so you won't refer to it as DRM anymore.
Just as you suggested. If you could trade GOGs freely between users it would no longer be a "DRM like structure".
Post edited October 24, 2012 by SimonG
Posted October 24, 2012
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jamyskis: You're preaching to the converted and quoting facts that are basically well established to those of us that have our eyes open, to be honest.
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Magmarock: Yeah I know we all agree, that's why I'm asking for help at batter presenting the argument. I know it's kind of petty, but I really think DRM is dangerous to the industry, and piracy might get the blame for what DRM causes.
Perhaps but you convincing that douché won't help much. Even better, try convince the others in the class when he's not around, might turn into a interesting discussion later if he comes back and is the only one pro DRM. :P
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: To give you an example, I went and checked to see how many people were torrenting the gog version of Divinity 2 version Doom 3 BFG edition.


You’d expect Divinity 2 to have the highest number.

Well less then ten people were trying to torrent a game they’d probably get around to buying anyway while 179 people were trying to torrent Doom 3 BFG edition.
Or, one of those games is more popular than the other.
Posted October 24, 2012
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SimonG: It depends on the DRM used. Take Steam for an example. For me it worked flawlessly since I started using it in '09. On the other hand, disc based copy protection was a huge pita for just about every game it came with.

I think the impact on some forms of DRMs on the target audience is not as big many make it to be. Most issue people have are due to the fact that they don't have a stable internet connection. Which is, while unfortunate for those affected, ultimately also a sign that you are no longer part of the target market.

And that doesn't bother me personally, as when a publisher no longer sees you as part of the market, there is no harm in pirating a game you cannot get legally. And one of the other nice side effects of Steam is that games are a lot easier to pirate nowadays than before.
Occasionally, you lose internet access at home.

Also, many people use laptop (which can run pretty much all lower req games nowadays) and find themselves using it in places with no internet connection.

Furthermore, I just don't feel comfortable with my access to my entire gaming library being dependent on the financial stability of a company (which are notoriously fickle in the gaming industry) who needs to keep their server running for me to be able to play my games.

And finally, some nutcases (admittedly a minority, are giving me a license to pirate games here because my demographic is insignificant?) like to switch off their internet when they are not using it for security reasons.
Posted October 24, 2012
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SimonG: --
Take your reasoned and sensible arguments out of here!
Posted October 24, 2012
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Magmarock: Yeah I know we all agree, that's why I'm asking for help at batter presenting the argument. I know it's kind of petty, but I really think DRM is dangerous to the industry, and piracy might get the blame for what DRM causes.
Yeah, I know the sort of person you mean - I'm acquainted with a few of this type - and like the others, my best advice, aside from the arguments I've presented above, is to leave it be.

The people I know who relentlessly defend DRM all have one thing in common - their passion and enthusiasm for gaming goes beyond what would be deemed healthy and has turned into a massively unhealthy addiction. Their sole justification for their point of view is that if it weren't for DRM, we wouldn't have any more games. Many of them spend more on their games than their income allows to get their kick and it has become an unhealthy obsession.

I don't know if your colleague fits this pattern. He certainly obviously hasn't worked in the industry for all his age and experience. DRM is nothing more than a shareholder-pacification device for lay shareholders, and it's a terrible business decision.
Post edited October 24, 2012 by jamyskis
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)People who support DRM(217 posts)(217 posts)
(217 posts)