The link you gave me is a German store. I know, you can legally buy indexed games from German stores(after sending them a copy of your ID or showing them your ID) but I'm talking about buying indexed games from abroad. And are you positive that the games you ordered from amazon.co.uk were indexed at the time?

After some checking, I did buy Fallout 3 (EU), BiA Hell's Highway, and RF: Guerilla via Amazon.co.uk. Also Bioshock 2, but I don't know if that was indexed. Reference

I rarely buy boxed copies nowadays, but I have Dead Rising 2, Dead Island on my Steam accoutn. Medal of Honor on my Origin and I bought Bulletstorm from Gamersgate. Obviously not with a german ip, but it just wasn't a problem. And now that I have them, I'm free to play them.

Edit: And I worked for a comicbook store that got his US stuff from an importer that got loads of indexed media into the country, and he hardly got trouble for this (apart from some tax related stuff. Those imports weren't "grey" or "illegal" as he did report them on his business tax sheets.

All those games are banned in Germany? Wow, it must suck to be a gamer there. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish by this? Do they also ban all R-rated movies? Is it illegal to watch gameplay of banned games on Youtube? Can you not draw your own fan-fiction of said games? Will you go to hell and burn eternally?

Indexed, not banned. There is a huge difference.

Who called you and told you you are doing something illegal? A game being indexed is purely a matter of youth protection. You as a customer can't even get into trouble if you tryed. Unless you are buying for a minor to circumvent youth protection there is nothing to worry about. You are actually protected by EU laws (well, whenever you buy something cross EU border, but it also applies to games)

A banned game is a whole different can of worms, but those are few and far between. And if a game gets banned, it's in 80% of the cases due to Nazis references.

Nobody contacted me. I never tried doing such a thing. I'm too afraid of getting fined to just find out what happens if I do this or that.

Anyway, here is a pic of my order history of Amazon.co.uk.

Of course I could have "faked" it via photoshop. Take it how you will. I could give you a similiar shot from play.com (which is in many ways better than amazon)

Edit: Isn't MoH Airborne also indexed?

Something about this statement seems strange to me... (sorry, had to do this ;) )

Concerning the discussion: This is from the Wikipedia page (of course, Wikipedia is not always right, but I believe it is in this case):

Rechtsfolgen der Indizierung
Indizierte Medien dürfen Kindern und Jugendlichen weder verkauft noch überlassen oder anderweitig zugänglich gemacht werden. Sie dürfen weder beworben noch im Versandhandel vertrieben werden, es sei denn, es wird durch geeignete Vorkehrungen sichergestellt, dass der Kunde mindestens 18 Jahre alt ist. Indizierte Videofilme und Computerspiele dürfen in Geschäften angeboten werden, sie dürfen Kindern und Jugendlichen aber nicht frei zugänglich sein. Sofern die Medien beschlagnahmt worden sind, dürfen sie jedoch überhaupt nicht angeboten werden. Bei Computerspielen kommt als Beschlagnahmegrund insbesondere Gewaltdarstellung gemäß § 131 StGB in Betracht. Zuständig für die Beschlagnahme ist aber nicht die BPjM, sondern die Strafjustiz. Der private Besitz ist jedoch nicht strafbar.[1] Indizierte Bücher dürfen in der Buchhandlung nur unter der Ladentheke angeboten werden. Strittig ist, ob eine kritische Rezension von jugendgefährdenden Medien möglich ist, da es hierzu keine einheitliche Rechtsprechung gibt.


So: noone cares if you buy or own indexed games. Seized ("beschlagnahmte") games may not be sold in Germany, but as far as I know, noone cares if you buy them from abroad for private use. Don't have a conclusive link right now, sorry (the article does say you are allowed to own/play them privately). I'm not entirely sure if this depends on whether they were seized because they depict violence or because of nazis.
I own the uncut version of L4D2 for example, which is on list B (seized games).



Completely unrelated: did some posts disappear from the forum? This thread had 4 pages earlier...

Oh crap, I just noticed a typo. Of course I meant "But there is absolutely nothing illegal about selling indexed games to adults".

On note about the wikiquote:

A game can only be seized by a judge, that means unless a game has been explizidly seized/banned, there is absolutely no legal reason that you can't own or buy that game as an adult. All laws always try to prevent the dissemination of said games, not the ownership or the aquiring of those by a private person. There are some downright illegal games in Germany, that can be seized from private property, but even then you don't get fined. And those games aren't what any sane person should play in most cases anyway.

I don't see why you would create a fake pic for me so I believe it. Why is play.com better than Amazon?
I don't really trust Wikipedia. People can just write what they want there.

It is often cheaper. You are guaranteed to get UK editions (if you aren't careful on amazon.co.uk you might just buy the "german import") and they deliver for free to Germany.

In the end, you might save up to 6 GBP. Amazon is sometimes faster. It depends on if they actually have it shipped from the UK or if they have it in their warehouses in Germany (then it is only 1 - 2 days, UK delivery takes about a week). And yes, even if it is shipped from the storage center next door, you will still pay the shipping from UK to Germany.

ok again:

publishers censor in germany, nobody else, and they do it to get a bigger buyer base, not because they have to (unless they want to sell a BANNED game)

indexed is not BANNED, there are maybe 5 games or so that are banned because of voilence

indexed is just like a stronger enforced adult rating, nothing else

indexed games are basically what create the misunderstanding that lots of stuff is censored or banned in germany, as said a thousand times: you can buy indexed games no problem, but people buy what they see on the shelves, not what is in some 18+ extra room or where they have to ask the storeguy for, if they would do it, stores would have the uncensored games, but buyers dont care enough, so they blindly buy the censored games

so the option for uncensored stuff is there, buyers just dont care for it, for those that care enough: order at amazon.co.uk, wait 2 days, have the uncensored version and even save money, you dont break any law

Yeah the 5 best games ever made. :P

There is a significant difference. Probably not as big as SimonG makes out, but it is important.

There are basically three types of games that people talk about as being "banned".

There are the "A-listers", which go on List A, which contains games that are fine legally but which are not permitted for sale in Germany. If you go into a German shop or online store that takes suitable measures to ensure that only adults can see these titles on sale, then you can sell them like any other title. You can import them from Austria, UK whatever with no problems.

There are the "131b-ers", which have been deemed to violate the law regarding the depiction of violence. The sale of these games is forbidden within Germany. This also applies to the import of games from the UK or Austria, and any seller who sends such games (e.g. Manhunt 2, Wolfenstein 3D) to Germany is committing a criminal offence.

Of course, there are two loopholes in this regard.

The first is that customs regulations do not apply for any packages sent within the common market. So if you buy a game from the UK or Austria, postal confidentiality (Postgeheimnis) in Germany applies, as it is not a customs matter. Basically, the seller has committed a criminal act, but there's no way that anyone can find out.

Be warned: There are some companies that operate from the Channel Islands for tax reasons, and these do NOT fall under the common market, and therefore may well be inspected by customs. They most likely won't, but you never know. I've had it once, where I bought a harmless English DVD from a Channel Islands-based company, and I had to open it in the presence of a customs official. But I've been buying games and DVDs for years from the US, and this is the first and only time that this has happened to me.

The second is that it is explicitly only the sale of these games that falls under §131b, not the ownership. So you can quite happily go to the UK or Austria, buy your banned game and come back, and you won't have broken any laws.

Oh: and the third type of game is the "unrated" sort. There are plenty of games that haven't been rated on account of their not being released in Germany or just being plain too old. They're handled like the A-listers.