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General discussion (archive)Penny Arcade Gabe Newell interview(39 posts)(39 posts)
(39 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 20, 2012
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Immoli: I like how with the last three questions on the second page Gabe acts like he is against DRM.

"...people are doing this because they can get it for free and so we just need to create these draconian DRM systems or ani-piracy systems, and that just really doesn’t match up with the data."
"...as a customer I want to be able to access my stuff wherever I am, and if you put in place a system that makes me wonder if I’ll be able to get it then you’ve significantly decreased the value of it."
"A lot of times the systems that are put in place when you’re just trying to punish your evil customers for maybe doing something that’s not in their terms of service end up driving people towards service providers who don’t, right?"

And there is more. I find it kinda funny.
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Fomalhaut30: Especially funny when you consider that their DRM is mandatory on every install and reduces the value of the product to zero if you ever want to sell it.
CEG (Steam DRM) isnt mandatory - for example Crusader Kings (recently released Steamworks game) dont need Steam to be running.
Posted February 20, 2012
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Fomalhaut30: Especially funny when you consider that their DRM is mandatory on every install and reduces the value of the product to zero if you ever want to sell it.
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Rebel44: CEG (Steam DRM) isnt mandatory - for example Crusader Kings (recently released Steamworks game) dont need Steam to be running.
If it requires Steam to be installed and a number registered with their servers, then it's DRM'd by their product. And Crusader King's 2, which I'm assuming you're referencing, requires a Steam account. At least according to Green Man Gaming.

If it requires an account there, then it is a mandatory thing.
Post edited February 20, 2012 by Fomalhaut30
Posted February 20, 2012
Question that should have been asked, "Amazon.com kind of met or exceeded many of your best holiday sales, what did you think about the new competition and how will you tackle it in the future? We noticed the Steam forum threads about the topic were regularly deleted."
Posted February 20, 2012
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orcishgamer: Question that should have been asked, "Amazon.com kind of met or exceeded many of your best holiday sales, what did you think about the new competition and how will you tackle it in the future? We noticed the Steam forum threads about the topic were regularly deleted."
But that would be real journalism!
Posted February 20, 2012
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orcishgamer: Question that should have been asked, "Amazon.com kind of met or exceeded many of your best holiday sales, what did you think about the new competition and how will you tackle it in the future? We noticed the Steam forum threads about the topic were regularly deleted."
Maybe for the US; too bad they were regionally restricted and didn't even come close to what Steam was offering as the number of titles, at least here in Europe.

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SirPrimalform: But that would be real journalism!
Do you even know Ben Kuchera's history as a journalist? To call him biased would be a really really silly thing to do.
Posted February 20, 2012
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Immoli: I like how with the last three questions on the second page Gabe acts like he is against DRM.

"...people are doing this because they can get it for free and so we just need to create these draconian DRM systems or ani-piracy systems, and that just really doesn’t match up with the data."
"...as a customer I want to be able to access my stuff wherever I am, and if you put in place a system that makes me wonder if I’ll be able to get it then you’ve significantly decreased the value of it."
"A lot of times the systems that are put in place when you’re just trying to punish your evil customers for maybe doing something that’s not in their terms of service end up driving people towards service providers who don’t, right?"

And there is more. I find it kinda funny.
Stuff like this makes me wonder how much is Gabe Newell still in control of Valve.
Posted February 20, 2012
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orcishgamer: Question that should have been asked, "Amazon.com kind of met or exceeded many of your best holiday sales, what did you think about the new competition and how will you tackle it in the future? We noticed the Steam forum threads about the topic were regularly deleted."
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AndrewC: Maybe for the US; too bad they were regionally restricted and didn't even come close to what Steam was offering as the number of titles, at least here in Europe.
Be that as it may a lot of Steam deals aren't too great worldwide and the US is a huge, no, actually massive market. It's a fair question. If Amazon.com (or anyone, for that matter) looks to be gearing up to kick their ass in one of their biggest markets, that's news, that's worth asking.

As for Ben Kuchera's history, it doesn't matter, the interview was handled with kid gloves and I'm not sure I saw a reason for that.
Posted February 20, 2012
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Immoli: Blah.
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Fenixp: Stuff like this makes me wonder how much is Gabe Newell still in control of Valve.
I tend to jump to the conclusion that he is just a hypocrite, though you may have a point there. Though, who would have more control of Valve than Gabe? It is privately owned, so no stockholders to appease, right?
Posted February 20, 2012
Typical talking head rubbish. Steam is the second most intrusive DRM in pc gaming (behind Ubi). Steam does not allow reselling.

Steam does not adhere to TOS consumer protection laws.
Posted February 20, 2012
Beard Gabe rocks!
http://i.imgur.com/KrGJg.png
Posted February 20, 2012
Yeah, we have lawyers who look at stuff all the time, I’m not sure I’m answering your question directly. It’s sort of like this kind of messy issue, and it doesn’t really matter a whole lot what the legal issues are, the real thing is that you have to make your customers happy at the end of the day and if you’re not doing that it doesn’t really matter what you think about various supreme court decisions or EU decisions. If you’re not making your customers happy you’re doing something stupid and we certainly always want to make our customers happy. And I think we have a track record of having done that.
Well I suppose you can say he was honest about sidestepping the questions about game ownership. However, a game journalist really should ask him point blank if he considers Steam DRM. Keep in mind that I am absolutely not against account-based DRM, but I'd at least like to hear him say "Steam is DRM", even if he then added a similar addendum above such as "but we think it draws the appropriate balance between the publishers and the consumers and most of our consumers seem to be happy". In a lot of his interviews he seems to suggest that Steam is not DRM and that's not true. :/

Also legality sort of does matter. :) You can go above and beyond the minimum requirements set by the law for consumer protections to make your customers happy(-ier), but you can't exactly go below the threshold of the law even if your customers are still "happy". :P
Post edited February 20, 2012 by crazy_dave
Posted February 20, 2012
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AndrewC: Maybe for the US; too bad they were regionally restricted and didn't even come close to what Steam was offering as the number of titles, at least here in Europe.
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orcishgamer: Be that as it may a lot of Steam deals aren't too great worldwide and the US is a huge, no, actually massive market. It's a fair question. If Amazon.com (or anyone, for that matter) looks to be gearing up to kick their ass in one of their biggest markets, that's news, that's worth asking.

As for Ben Kuchera's history, it doesn't matter, the interview was handled with kid gloves and I'm not sure I saw a reason for that.
Because Penny Arcade absolutely loves Gabe and Valve. Of course you're not going to get any hardball questions from them.

And I do agree about Amazon being a huge threat to Steam. They're a whole lot bigger and a lot more customer friendly and have much better customer service than Valve/Steam. If they decide to come after Steam outside of the United States, they will knock it out of first place in digital downloads.

I bought quite a few games (including Steamworks games) off of Amazon last year. Not only were their prices great, but I don't have to worry about my account being suspended if I ever have a billing dispute. I've never bought a game directly off of Steam because of their attitude towards customer rights combined with their very poor customer service.
Posted February 21, 2012
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Immoli: I tend to jump to the conclusion that he is just a hypocrite, though you may have a point there. Though, who would have more control of Valve than Gabe? It is privately owned, so no stockholders to appease, right?
I really have no idea, he might very well be. But things don't tend to be so simple in life, especially when one is visionary who enjoyed making games. Of course, he might as well be perfectly happy with how things are and just be a hypocrite. I don't think we'll ever know.
Posted February 21, 2012
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mogamer: ...
And I do agree about Amazon being a huge threat to Steam. They're a whole lot bigger and a lot more customer friendly and have much better customer service than Valve/Steam. If they decide to come after Steam outside of the United States, they will knock it out of first place in digital downloads.

I bought quite a few games (including Steamworks games) off of Amazon last year. Not only were their prices great, but I don't have to worry about my account being suspended if I ever have a billing dispute. I've never bought a game directly off of Steam because of their attitude towards customer rights combined with their very poor customer service.
Amazon has a great policy for refunds. They are the best of both worlds, retailers service orientation and digital efficiency.

On the other hand they have no leaderboards and all these other fancy Steam stuff. The community part is completely missing.

A little competition and at least two big players, that I would certainly appreciate.
Posted February 21, 2012
You can say what you want about the fat guy, but his stance on piracy is (verbally at least) pretty much the same as GOGs. Provide good service and you will sell your games. And it works for him in Russia (which I would have never thought in the first place, tbh).

That only leaves the question that he either really doesn't think Steam is a DRM, or, he is simply trying to avoid that topic.

Even thought Steam is a "picture perfect" DRM, I to admit that for users like me (which he describes pretty good) it doesn't feel like a DRM. I'm always online anyway and don't back up my games on my HD, that's what I pay Steam to do for me.

Or, third option. His defintion of DRM isn't my defintion of DRM. Considering that the concept of DRM is hard to pinpoint by many (including me) that might just be the case.
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Trilarion: Amazon has a great policy for refunds. They are the best of both worlds, retailers service orientation and digital efficiency.
Funny enough, I really dislike Amazon for it's "core market": Books. I almost never buy books on Amazon, because when it comes to books, I want "retail". And I've worked in a (comic) book store to know how difficult it is to compete with Amazon.

But I buy just about everything else there ...
Post edited February 21, 2012 by SimonG
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Penny Arcade Gabe Newell interview(39 posts)(39 posts)
(39 posts)