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Starmaker: Edit: also calling bullshit on the first line in that article ("CD Projekt RED’s DRM-free policy has made The Witcher 2 a popular target for piracy"). It was the DRM'ed version that was cracked and subsequently pirated (sauce: TET, probably).
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Nirth: Hehe good one.

Yeah, I think after they released patch 1.1 the DRM was dropped. The patch was released only 9 days after game release but nevertheless that line was probably a PR stunt to cause more readers to be interested, as always.
The game was available DRM-free here on GOG from day one. Downloading patches required registering the CD key at first (which caused quite a bit of "DRM on GOG!" complaints at the time), but that requirement was later dropped as the patches became available stand-alone (and also, later, included in the main installer).
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Xce1: I'd love to agree with you. But in the interview their PR department is trivialising the details, while glamorising what was a quite messy episode(whether right or wrong).
I don't really see what they "trivialize" or "glamorize" given that the article doesn't have any new details nor contains anything that we didn't already knew months ago. They threatened peoples with letter, it caused the uproar, they stopped; It's basically old news.

I see the "you like the game so please pay for it" part more as sarcasm rather than them being "polite", but it's hard to know as it's probably a translation or at least non-native speakers.
Post edited October 24, 2012 by Gersen
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Gersen: I don't really see what they "trivialize" or "glamorize" given that the article doesn't have any new details nor contains anything that we didn't already knew months ago. They threatened peoples with letter, it caused the uproar, they stopped; It's basically old news.
Exactly, they "threatened people with letters". It's not really the same thing as simply asking people to pay for the game which is how the interview sounds which is giving the impression they wanted pirates to buy the game, not threatening them with sizeable fines/legal fees.

The full interview is up now by the way, with a bit more about it and some info on Cyberpunk:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/24/cd-projekt-red-interview-cyberpunk-2077-witcher-2-piracy-windows-8-and-more/
Post edited October 24, 2012 by Xce1
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Fenixp: They're lying. They were blackmailing those people, basically saying 'pay or else.' If they're trying to act like they were all buddies with those people, CDP has just lost quite a bit of my respect.
This. The quotes from this article are bald-faced LIES. Plain and simple. Massive loss of respect for everyone involved. Man up and take responsibility for your actions CDP.
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Xce1: The full interview is up now by the way, with a bit more about it and some info on Cyberpunk:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/24/cd-projekt-red-interview-cyberpunk-2077-witcher-2-piracy-windows-8-and-more/
In this context I find the quotes a lot less 'scandalous'. She's still trying to weasel their way out of the responsibility by using vague and euphemistic speech, but maybe she's partly joking and she probably didn't want to comment on the issue in the first place and did it only half-heartedly and unprepared because the interviewer brought it up again. As I suspected, it was mainly the manipulative arrangement of that other article.
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keeveek: I don't know with whom should I agree.

It's nothing immoral to go after money. Is SimonG not going after money? Is he working for free?

If CDP didn't believe they deserve money for their product, they would make it freeware.
I'm in the same boat. It's not wrong to want to be paid for their product, but they did it in a shitty way.

I really want Cyberpunk and Witcher 3, and since they backed down, suspicious or not, I'm going to buy those games. Unless they do something like this or similar again, at that point it'll be time for me to skip their releases.
My problem isn't that they were going after the accused pirates, my problem with them was how much they were asking. Heck even around $400 would be more tolerable, hefty price and setback but not completely obscene amount considering they had to track the potential pirate down plus the cost of hiring lawyers. When it starts getting into the thousands ($1,800) that is just obscene.

I can respect CDP wanting to protect their IP, but be reasonable. At least if the accused wants to fight the charge, it will not be as likely to send the individual into total bankruptcy if the case is lost.
Post edited October 24, 2012 by Thunderstone
I'm one of those that never understood the reaction to the letters they sent. Supporting DRM-free games doesn't mean they don't care about piracy.
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hedwards: Bottom line is that if taken to court the damages would likely be only the cost of the game, but the fees associated with paying attorney's bills would be far, far higher.

I still haven't seen anybody posting any credible information that the letters were going out to people who didn't infringe on the copyright.
This is correct. I know several people who got one of these letters including myself (in 2007 for some German movie, they demanded 250€ - that was the standard sum for movies, 150€ for games). I haven't heard of one false positive and I think pirates are doing a lot to make these methods appear less accurate than they are. Heck, my dad's collegue even wrote a letter to a newspaper about being a victim, he denied having torrented that movie he had been accused of pirating there - and the journalists bought it and wrote their article like that while that collegue had told my dad that he had torrented the movie earlier. One simple lie and already the media make it appear as if there was proof that the method is inaccurate and may harm innocent people.

And indeed, the lawyers who send you these letters COULD instantly sue you and getting a lawyer to defend you would be more expensive than just paying up to avoid a legal battle - not to mention how much you might have to pay if you loose the case. I think the sum of 750€ is a bit hefty, though (and I'm surprised as that's the highest sum I've heard about for torrenting in Germany). That's really the only thing that I consider disturbing about this story.

Anyway: I deserved it, any people I know deserved it and despite being angry at first I gladly paid up and can't blame companies for enforcing their rights. Especially people who got outraged about CDP despite never having been a "victim" of one of these legal firms should just shut the fuck up - if you're against piracy don't support the pirates. :P
Post edited October 24, 2012 by F4LL0UT
I think what CDP did was disgusting. Pushing around people who can't fight back because they can't afford the legal costs - that just seems like bullying to me.

Not that I'm usually surprised by big companies stepping on people when it suits them. But since CDP is trying to come across as all consumer friendly with GOG, you'd think that they wouldn't, if only to preserve their reputation.
If only there was a gaming company that produced quality products at a reasonable price, DRM-free. If only that were true, than no one would ever pirate their materials.

For example, no one pirated The Witcher 2. Isn't that right, pirate sympathizers?
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SimonG: What turns this whole thing into some kind of cheap joke is the fact that key leading players of CDP were pirates themselves in the nineties. They got their first credentials in the scene by leeching of the work others made. And it did well for them. But when a fifteen year old kid, who cannot afford a 50€ game goes online, like all his buddies, and downloads it, he should be shaken down for 500€ or else.
Somehow, I knew it that the real problem for you is not wrong people getting letters, but that CDPR would go after the pirates at all. You were just sugar-coating it.

I certainly hope they do, because the only other option for them is to add very stringent DRM to stop the same piracy. I much more prefer them giving me free hands, but still taking action if they catch me using my freedom wrong, violating their rights, as opposed to tying my hands behind my back with e.g. stringent DRM, streaming services etc., if I want to play the games I have bought from them.

To use my earlier analogy: if that 15-year old kid was caught riding a bus without having bought a valid ticket, shouldn't he be issued with a 80€ fine for his wrongdoing? I mean, he is just a fearful 15-year old kid who just wanted to ride the bus for free.

Your quip about some people in CDPR being former pirates is as relevant as former hackers working for government agencies, trying to stop other hackers. I mean, they can't do that, because they used to be hackers too, right?

Who knows, maybe some of the ticket inspectors for bus companies had also sometime ridden a bus without a valid ticket when they were younger?

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maycett: I think what CDP did was disgusting. Pushing around people who can't fight back because they can't afford the legal costs - that just seems like bullying to me.
Then that is the problem with the legal system going way beyond mere piracy, and it should be changed ASAP.

Are we still talking about the people who did nothing wrong getting legal threats and being sued, or has it shifted already to CDPR going after the "poor pirates"? If they sent me a threat letter accusing me of something I didn't do, I don't think it would cause me any extra expenses beyond the time wasted on sending them an email telling them to go fjuck themselves.
Post edited October 25, 2012 by timppu
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timppu: Somehow, I knew it that the real problem for you is not wrong people getting letters, but that CDPR would go after the pirates at all. You were just sugar-coating it.
I'm not going to talk about SimonG's motives. I don't know him as a person, so I'm just not going to comment about that. However, I absolutely agree with you that some - SOME people do have the mindset you describe.

There are legitimate objections to the actions CDPR took, but there are many people who are against them taking any actions at all, even if they were more reasonable.
Post edited October 25, 2012 by stoicsentry
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stoicsentry: There are legitimate objections to the actions CDPR took, but there are many people who are against them taking any actions at all, even if they were more reasonable.
My personal preference would be that they go mostly (but not necessarily only) after the people who actively share the games online, rather than the small fish that were there only to get the game, and then log out. When you kill the heads, then those 15 year old kids can't get the torrent either, at least not as easily.
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maycett: I think what CDP did was disgusting. Pushing around people who can't fight back because they can't afford the legal costs - that just seems like bullying to me.

Not that I'm usually surprised by big companies stepping on people when it suits them. But since CDP is trying to come across as all consumer friendly with GOG, you'd think that they wouldn't, if only to preserve their reputation.
These people, probably almost all of them, did not pay for the game, sometimes even bragged in public internet forums about their action. They made it more expensive for the buyers, less profit for the investors and ultimately lowered the chances for expansions or successors. If the fine is of reasonable height (100-300€) and if the evidence is carefully selected (be reminded in germany the internet connection contract holder is liable) then you can go to court as a way to fight back. I think there is nothing wrong with this way.

I think there is a way to pursue piracy legally but not come across as a bully. You must do it right with low fines and repeated (up/downloads). But then I also think this is the right of every company and it would be still consumer friendly, as long as you don't come across as bully.

3 alternatives:
- strict online streaming but low prices
- soft but frequent legal pursuits and medium prices
- high prices for those who pay but rampant piracy

You can choose what you like most.
Post edited October 25, 2012 by Trilarion