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General discussion (archive)PC-Gamers = Dumbed down?(46 posts)(46 posts)
(46 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 08, 2010
Does anyone think that the delineation between consoles and PCs is getting increasingly blurred? What was once strictly for platformers, and once strictly for FPS/RTS, is now becoming convergent. If you ask me, very soon it'll be hard to tell the difference between either of the two.
There are still some clear distinctions, of course, but with consoles adopting more ere PC-exclusive features (evolution), and PC gaming taking on a more consolized frontier eg. consolized menus, lack of features to capitalize on PC's benefits (regression), I think very soon people won't be able to tell which is which.
If you ask me, though, from the above, as consoles evolve, PCs devolve. For consoles, it's almost like a repeat of the PC gaming boom in the 90s, where FPS and RTS innovations are introduced to desktop users. When I talk to friends who own consoles, I feel like we've been there and done that before. It's hard to be amazed at this "console evolution" when the whole process just feels like deja vu. As a result, it's not hard to imagine consoles becoming desktops-on-a-couch. I wouldn't be surprised if one day Sony forced PS3 users to upgrade their CPUs and GPUs too.
Oh and 400 rep! Hooray!
Post edited March 08, 2010 by lowyhong
Posted March 08, 2010
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Wishbone: Not trying to get into a fanboy discussion here, but can I assume you're not talking about first person shooters?

Yeah, I knew I wasn't clear there. I meant that FPS type games lend themselves to consoles more readily than strategy/tactical games. I am thinking of Drake's Fortune, and other shooters where you semi-platform as well. The two thumbsticks and dozens of button combos readily available make those type of action FPS games, arguably, easier with a console controller than with a mouse and keyboard.
Now, if you want to bring up the merit of a mouse for aiming, I am entirely with you. I could easily do better in Halo, for instance, with a mouse and keyboard. But, in that game there is not as much jumping, hanging, rolling, and such.
The point of my previous post was just to say that PC titles seem more deliberate, whereas console games, by in large, are more action oriented. I am not saying there isn't overlap, however those are the strengths of each platforms (as I see them).
So, invariably, porting from one system to the other is going to change the gaming experience, sometimes greatly. It is easy to see by just looking at the two most recent BioWare titles. Console gamers are upset because the combat is wonky for them in Dragon Age, and PC players are upset that Mass Effect 2 has been further simplified from Mass Effect (in terms of character skills, inventory, and who knows what else... I am avoiding most discussions about the game until I actually purchase and play it).
You may still disagree with me, but I think I made my point a little better this time around.
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lowyhong: If you ask me, though, from the above, as consoles evolve, PCs devolve. For consoles, it's almost like a repeat of the PC gaming boom in the 90s, where FPS and RTS innovations are introduced to desktop users.

I agree, to an extent. i think consoles and PC are converging more than anything. I know one business model that Bill Gates was talking about a few years ago was to try to make a console/computer that would allow web browsing and gaming using the TV, while hooked up to some (Satan inspired possibly) Microsoft run hub.
I think this is the dream of every publisher; to make gaming similar to a cable box. I just look at consoles like the PS3, and I feel that we are already 75% of the way there. I, honestly, don't know if it would be a good thing or a bad thing in the long run. It would have a LOT to do with how required the connection to the service would be (and how frequent), I'd imagine.
Post edited March 08, 2010 by Krypsyn
Posted March 08, 2010
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Wishbone: Not trying to get into a fanboy discussion here, but can I assume you're not talking about first person shooters?
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Krypsyn: Yeah, I knew I wasn't clear there. I meant that FPS type games lend themselves to consoles more readily than strategy/tactical games.
...
You may still disagree with me, but I think I made my point a little better this time around.

Not at first, no, although you explained it better afterwards. Can we agree that a standard, combat-oriented FPS like the Unreal Tournament series is much better suited to the PC than to consoles?
Posted March 08, 2010
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Wishbone: [Not at first, no, although you explained it better afterwards. Can we agree that a standard, combat-oriented FPS like the Unreal Tournament series is much better suited to the PC than to consoles?

100% agreed. I actually bought Wolfenstein 3D on my PS3 a while back, for nostalgia's sake. I didn't play the entire way through (a little went a long way, but it was worth the $6), but even with those simple controls I was wishing for a mouse.
Posted March 08, 2010
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lowyhong: Does anyone think that the delineation between consoles and PCs is getting increasingly blurred? What was once strictly for platformers, and once strictly for FPS/RTS, is now becoming convergent. If you ask me, very soon it'll be hard to tell the difference between either of the two.

Yeah and I think it pretty much has to in order for gaming to progress, its just too splintered at the moment with 4 major shards (or 7 if you count ds, psp & iphone). I have a feeling that the first official mouse and keyboard gaming setup is the key to victory. It'll allow PC games to be ported with relative ease and satisfy as many people as possible
Posted March 08, 2010
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Aliasalpha: I have a feeling that the first official mouse and keyboard gaming setup is the key to victory. It'll allow PC games to be ported with relative ease and satisfy as many people as possible

Wouldn't both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 already allow this, it's just up to the game developer to include a settings screen to remap the keys (rather than just the switching between two or three predefined control schemes). Both consoles (and the Wii as well, I guess) can already talk to USB devices, and I'm betting there isn't so great a difference between the various keyboards and mice that they can't already all be used with a very small set of generic drivers - that is, if the console doesn't already include drivers and an API to talk to them, then it would be even easier.
No, I think the greatest hurdle is that console gamers expect a more uniform experience than PC gamers have traditionally done, and would be very slow to adapt the more complex controls.
Post edited March 08, 2010 by Miaghstir
Posted March 08, 2010
As far as I know none of them support a mouse and unless its an official product, I don't think the developers can really afford to code for anything but official control options. Like controllers in general, it needs a standardised approach to succeed.
At least for me, the biggest problem with a keyboard & mouse for consoles is the setup, balancing a keyboard & mouse on your lap when sitting on the lounge isn't an ideal way to go, nor is dumping a comfy chair in favour of a more practical desk
Posted March 08, 2010
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Aliasalpha: You might as well declare that all fans of Metal are violent psychotics

Awww and I thought we hide it so well
Posted March 08, 2010
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Aliasalpha: No, I think the greatest hurdle is that console gamers expect a more uniform experience than PC gamers have traditionally done, and would be very slow to adapt the more complex controls.

Is there still much of a divide between PC and console gamers? I enjoy gaming on a console and in large part because i can slouch on my sofa and chat to my mates as we hose down another swarm of zombies/mutants/other people. We all own and play games on the PC, as do many other console gamers.
Being slow to adapt or the kind of game experience we expect isn't really an issue. Money is probably the biggest deciding factor, (for me anyway) and whether i wish to invest in a new computer so i can play the latest and greatest.
If anything, someone needs to patent a 'keyboard & mouse' tray for playing in front of the t.v. Then maybe the console would have more titles break away from the sports/fps/racing mold.
Posted March 08, 2010
There is an overabundance of sentence structure and grammar in this thread! It is hard to know I am on an internet forum with the GoG.com forums - rare do you find such a discussion on a forum that is so well written.
Platform discussions usually (in my experience) devolve into 'consoles r 4 lusers', followed by 'nuh uh pc gamerz r teh lulz'. Something like that at least.
Just wanted to drop in and say that :), and to say Thank GoG for GoG - nice to have a place to go to not only scratch my classic gaming itch, but to find threads that are legible and interesting.
Posted March 08, 2010
STFUN00bL0l!!!!1
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robobrien: Is there still much of a divide between PC and console gamers?

25% of each camp is radically and vocally in conflict with the 25% of the other factions whilst the remaining 75% of each camp are silently embarassed and wishing we could all just play a game and get along except that there'd be a screaming match over which game and what system...
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robobrien: If anything, someone needs to patent a 'keyboard & mouse' tray for playing in front of the t.v. Then maybe the console would have more titles break away from the sports/fps/racing mold.

Well there was this... I'd expect Microsoft or Sony to design something a little less... retarded
Posted March 08, 2010
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Aliasalpha: 75% of each camp are silently embarassed and wishing we could all just play a game and get along except that there'd be a screaming match over which game and what system...

If only some sensible developer could make a game on all networked platforms, with full cross-platform networking and similar enough pacing (with controls and whatnot) that it would actually be viable to play across platforms.
On the other hand, that's only sensible once it's actually done, deciding to do that work is pretty much insanity.
Posted March 08, 2010
Well Stunt Car Racer had cross platform play between the Amiga, Atari ST and... the other platform it was released for... mac I think. You needed a serial cable to connect the machines physically though so the scope for MP was limited to 2 people
The downside of the cross platform networked play would be that there'd have to be a centralised 3rd party server to coordinate the different platforms, a PS3 sends data to the server which sends it to the 360 and PC. Wouldn't be impossible but as EA has shown by business decision and ubi have shown by incompetence, 3rd party servers can go down...
Posted March 08, 2010
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Aliasalpha: The downside of the cross platform networked play would be that there'd have to be a centralised 3rd party server to coordinate the different platforms, a PS3 sends data to the server which sends it to the 360 and PC. Wouldn't be impossible but as EA has shown by business decision and ubi have shown by incompetence, 3rd party servers can go down...

All TCP/IP-capable platforms (anything manufactured today, I'm pretty sure, and then some) can theoretically connect to anything else that talks TCP/IP. You can still find Baldur's Gate games through GameSpy, seemingly automatically. I never install GameSpy, so I was really surprised when me and a friend saw a third player joining the game.
Posted March 08, 2010
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Aliasalpha: As far as I know none of them support a mouse and unless its an official product, I don't think the developers can really afford to code for anything but official control options. Like controllers in general, it needs a standardised approach to succeed.
At least for me, the biggest problem with a keyboard & mouse for consoles is the setup, balancing a keyboard & mouse on your lap when sitting on the lounge isn't an ideal way to go, nor is dumping a comfy chair in favour of a more practical desk

In fact, keyboard and mouses (even unofficial) has been supported since the PS2. The PS2 port of Half-Life is a pretty good example.
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General discussion (archive)PC-Gamers = Dumbed down?(46 posts)(46 posts)
(46 posts)