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Aliasalpha: Reckon thats a damned good reason
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Disconnected: I don't really know if I agree. Granted, the 360 cost less than 600$ back in 2005, and you would most likely have needed 2-3 times that to build a roughly equivalent gaming machine with wireless gaming peripherals & everything. At least if you were building it completely from scratch.
But.. You'd still have a slightly faster machine that could be upgraded to be way, way nicer today for next to nothing. You wouldn't have to suffer all the massive limitations that fixed hardware, lack of peripherals, lack of 3rd party apps and any kind of usable OS & so on, impose (with a vengeance). And perhaps most importantly, you'd be buying every game at somewhere between a 20-90% discount.
Point is, at least at the time, going console looked like about as good an idea as pissing one's pants to keep warm. It might seem tempting in the very short term, but over a period of a couple of years it looked like the poorer & more expensive solution.
The poorer bit is debatable, of course, given all the exclusives. But I doubt that's something most people could have guessed back then.

People often only think in the very short term. Also, you may have $600US to spend on entertainment, but that doesn't mean you have $1800US to spend on anything, much less a computer if you've already got one that works for studies/work/typing/browsing.
Yeah the simple fact is that a hell of a lot of games are near identical on console (the usual PC advantages of resolution and the like are just icing rather than cake) with the obvious exception of RTS which suck balls on console and very probably always will do, at least until we all have touchscreen TVs (which will rock)
With consoles, I've made the decision to trade a smaller inital cost for a slightly higher TCO in the long run.
Naturally smart shopping counteracts a lot of the price disadvantages, as an example I went looking for OFP2 this morning and only one shop in town had it and they wanted the criminal price of au$120 which is $10 more than the already criminal RRP for a console game. I laughed derisively and left the shop, came home and took advantage of the near 1:1 exchange rate with the US dollar (meaning it's dost about us$110 for OFP2) and for the exact same $120 I ordered both OFP2 and Brutal Legend. Again it's a tradeoff, I've sacrificed immediacy for value
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Miaghstir: Also, you may have $600US to spend on entertainment, but that doesn't mean you have $1800US to spend on anything, much less a computer if you've already got one that works for studies/work/typing/browsing.

Exactly.
More often than not, a PC is the best available gaming platform. That said, unless you're a very dedicated mod user or exclusively interested in MMOs or RTSs, the overall gaming experience isn't going to be so drastically different on a console that it even remotely justifies the extra $1200 (using Miaghstir's estimation) for a PC; especially not if you happen to live on a relatively tight budget and/or the world economy just imploded. Also, keep in mind just how many games are developed primarily for the consoles and then shoddily ported to the PC. Given that console development is generally speaking much more profitable than PC development, the "console first, PC later" mentality isn't going anywhere...
Personally I can accept average or below-average graphics in console games compared to the PC versions but clunky controls are a much larger problem. It's going to be interesting to see if the extra months of development time (keep in mind that the PC version of DA:O was initially supposed to be released much earlier this year) have yielded results in terms of an intuitive console control mechanic. The recently released Risen was criticized for its graphics and performance on the X360 but more people seem to be reasonably happy with its controls than I had expected, so it's by no means impossible to make a decent transition from mouse to gamepad.
Post edited October 16, 2009 by KEgstedt
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Aliasalpha: at least until we all have touchscreen TVs (which will rock)

I can think of nothing worse than having to sit a meter away from a big screen tv just because its got touch screen capabilities. Touch is not going to revolutionise TV. Recognising gestures via cameras and/or remotes is the only way mainstream consoles will ever bring mouse like gestures to the living room.
I honestly get enough fingerprints on my computer screen right now and its not touch ready. I love hand gestures, don't get me wrong. I'm completely in love with the new macbook unibody touch pad but I just don't buy this touch screen revolution nonsense. Its great for handhelds and maybe a wall mounted picture frame but what else? Gee didn't Surface take off...
Fair point, I should't have said TV, I should have said display. What I was envisioning is something like that microsoft surface table thing, playing RTS' on that sort of hardware would be freaking awesome though unbelievably expensive
Post edited October 16, 2009 by Aliasalpha
I've heard rumours that there are several changes between console and PC versions...
Interface: Different UI for consoles (more restricted in some ways, to be better for controller use)
Viewpoint: mentioned this one above, but it does tie in to the next one.
Battles: Fewer enemies in battles (they arrive in waves, rather than all at once?), and I've heard this is due to memory issues (AI considerations perhaps?).
That last one is the major rumour, perhaps someone who knows more about the consoles would be able to let me know how they would be limited? I heard tell of 25+ enemies on screen for the PC version, and it seems there are issues with showing this on a console.
@Aliasalpha:
I do like the idea of a touchscreen tabletop display for RTS or TBS games. For me, the ultimate would be some proper GW (warhammer) games. Mind you, I can imagine that GW wouldn't support such a system if they thought it would be cheaper and easier (and more popular) than paying them for figurines...
However, the real reason I can't see it catching on (for gaming) is that the system doesn't work for different types of games (FPS for example).
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Aliasalpha: Reckon thats a damned good reason

I was referring to Morrowind.
i'm happy the system specs for this are pretty low, I still have a system from a few years ago that I haven't been able to upgrade due to limited budget of a student. For the record, its an AMD 3300+ (single core) processor, EVGA 8800GT, 2 gigs memory. used to be awesome back in the day. But definitely picking this up on PC, will be cheaper, moddable, and better interface. I'm not fond of the idea of playing a game that requires targeting, switching between targets, etc, on a game pad.
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Andy_Panthro: That last one is the major rumour, perhaps someone who knows more about the consoles would be able to let me know how they would be limited? I heard tell of 25+ enemies on screen for the PC version, and it seems there are issues with showing this on a console.

Its possible this would be down to poly count but if it is indeed true I would say it probably more down to the cpu demand for 25+ AI if they all act independantly. I by no means know that much about consoles but after seeing games like kingdom underfire and Viking Battle for Asgard which have literally 100's of models on the screen, this would lead me to that conclusion. They are all fairly low poly clones of each other but its still alot of rendering to be done.
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Andy_Panthro: @Aliasalpha:
I do like the idea of a touchscreen tabletop display for RTS or TBS games. For me, the ultimate would be some proper GW (warhammer) games. Mind you, I can imagine that GW wouldn't support such a system if they thought it would be cheaper and easier (and more popular) than paying them for figurines...
However, the real reason I can't see it catching on (for gaming) is that the system doesn't work for different types of games (FPS for example).

I don't see gamesworkshop doing this either at least not with the major franchises. It would be cool if we could get them to bring out their more niche products like Battlefleet Gothic or Mordhiem on something like that though.
I also think that the RTS market alone would justify producing that table display as a expensive accessory but only if it actually allows better control then a mouse.
Well for the surface like thing, I could imagine an FPS SORT of working. Since its multi-touch you could have an onscreen keyboard and if you can find a way to have the mouse buttons simulated it could work. Same with the usual 3rd person shooter/adventure stuff
It'd definitely work with RTS/TBS and RPGs, I could easily imagine puzzle games being great with it. If they make a version of WOW for it then it'd probably sell well, a version of the machine where you can upgrade the hardware would give it real potential (a fairly simple hatch with the mobo & video card accessible would do the trick).
With the Warhammer/40K thing, I could easily imagine them doing it if they thought up the right business model. My first thought is that they could try to sell them (probably as DLC) by point value. You buy the core game that has the rules for everything and a pair of basic 1000 point starter armies. You can then buy the proper version of each of the armies as a single download like you'd get in a normal 1500 point army box set which unlocks the army and gives you those units to use as you see fit (working as a combination of army book and the small army box sets). Sort of like a microtransaction system only with GW being behind it it'd surely be a macrotransaction thing soon.
With the by points method, you'd get the entire army roster of models when you buy the specific army set (say space marines) but you can only use up to a certain number of points before you have to get the wallet out. You get a 1500 point block to build your army from any of the units available to the army. If you want to make a 2000 point army, you have to buy another 500 point block and then be able to put in as many tactical squads, fire dragons or carnifexes as you can fit in 500 points.
With the by unit method you buy squads or monsters/vehicles the same as you do the miniatures and if you want another tactical marine squad, you buy them the same as if they were the miniatures. This is the method I'd expect them to use since you wouldn't get variety for free (especially with chapter/craftworld/etc specific units) and you'd have to pay for it.
With either method of expansion, you'd have to buy the core army to use them then pay again to get the extras. Yeah I could imagine GW being all over that
I always pictured the table as a computer accessory like a monitor, is it currently actually a computer in its own right? If so I'm not sure that would work very well as it would be way more expensive then them giving you a flat touch screen monitor and some software on a disc that makes the thing work.
Well in all the info I read about it I never read anything about it connecting to a PC. In fact it implied it was going to bring the PC to the living room so I assumed it was an all in one unit. Plenty of room under the table for a standard PC after all
Also: Holy shit, 700 rep points? Do you do anything other than GOG tech support?
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Aliasalpha: Well in all the info I read about it I never read anything about it connecting to a PC. In fact it implied it was going to bring the PC to the living room so I assumed it was an all in one unit. Plenty of room under the table for a standard PC after all

So like a replacement for your coffee table or something?
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Aliasalpha: Also: Holy shit, 700 rep points? Do you do anything other than GOG tech support?

Play games and sleep...
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Ralackk: Play games and sleep...

Eat? Or do you resemble your avatar? Also, is the "new user" supposed to be ironic?
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Ralackk: Play games and sleep...
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Navagon: Eat? Or do you resemble your avatar? Also, is the "new user" supposed to be ironic?

I'm fairly skinny but not that bad no. I guess that "new user" is fairly ironic now I just haven't changed it because I can't think of anything to put there is the main reason though.
Edit: quotes messing up
Post edited October 16, 2009 by Ralackk