Clear link? Maybe in a handful of shoddy, partially biased studies(Many funded by those with an axe to grind against the pron industry and what they view as degradation towards women and/or harm to society, and/or run by people with such views.). The same goes for alot of studies that say games/etc cause violence in people/cause people to go out and kill/injure people.

IMO the violence is caused by other factors, like people being brought up by increasingly growing amounts of less-than-perfect/attentive/responsible parents.
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The spread and proliferation of(and easy access to) porn doesn't cause such performers to become depressed and suicidal....it's all those who demonize and stigmatize their profession(Oddly enough this usually includes those for/funding the studies to "rove" that porn is bad to people's mental health/society) that do so, along with other factors in their own personal lives.

True, but it proves their point that the original point that all such performers(or most) are depressed suicidal wrecks is hyperbole at best.

I think the problem with that is that these discussions do nothing to solve the issue, if there is one - instead they contribute to it and actually make it worse. I don't think something as a modern ideal of masculinity even exists, if anything it's a desperate hodgepodge of inconsistent and contradictory ideals and wishful thinking from past, present and future that's impossible for any human being to fulfill or even relate to.

And I guess that's only natural because we're past the point where people used to believe that there's only one possible way of living and everyone had to adhere to the same ideals, so of course there are lots of individual expectations. But, in fact, all these articles and speeches try to depict their own individual expectation as something all men should adhere to and often betray a longing for those past days when men supposedly were still men (and - what is wisely omitted - women were still women) and there was only one truth and one way of life you could force all the weird people to subordinate to, so you could feel safe in your tiny manageable world with all your certainties.

I think it's very likely that the insecurities of young men (and women) are partly (or even mainly) caused by those who complain about them. And I'd assume that more often than not it's not the modern ideals that they can't cope with, but the hypocrisy with which modern ideals are superficially propagated while at the same time relics from the past sneak in through the backdoor to subvert and contradict them.

In the porn industry there's a fair range/gamut of body types represented though, unlike in most of the modelling industry where skinny and airbrushed is promoted nearly always to be the norm. As such there's less chance it'll lead to people experiencing such mediums to get the wrong image of the "perfect" woman ingrained into their minds & react negatively to it(mentally), and the open variety of "positions" allows many(even those that aren't perfect) a chance at the industry.

Also porn may "objectify" women, but I could care less what people objectify....though I laugh to hear some feminists claim porn is "objectifying women" while some of them(and many other women) ogle men at strip clubs/on the street/etc. Double standards much?

(Sorry, ranting in general here...not trying to pick on you with this post.)

Oh this argument again... citation needed (and really, please look deeply into the eyes of the terrible and unscientific stuff you are likely to immediately find on the subject).

Anthropological studies have suggested for decades that many species, including homo sapiens, do better with lots of promiscuous sex and sex play. Bonobo apes show this in spades (and act more like us sexually than any other animal, I might add).

exactly I bet money if I found out that even the most hardcore feminist is reading Harry Potter yaoi

Very well said, +1. Like the education paradigms mentioned in that RSAnimate posted a while back, it's an old outmoded concept that's being clinged to out of tradition.

It'd be hilarious for a male version of the feminist movement sprang up, bemoaning the "vile" wolf whistling women at the local male strip club & on the streets.

"They looked at me and whistled while calling me a hunksicle.....a HUNKSICLE......."

And there's a reason why amateur and alternative porn is so damned popular as well. If you don't believe me go troll through any of the Youtube based, free pron sites' categories for 5 minutes and convince yourself.

Improbably idealized looks for men and women in much of the professional porn industry is really not much different than the improbably attractive people in any modern media. Go look at the cast of Lost, I spent 2 days this last week flying, I guarantee I saw no planes (not my own or other groups boarding) that were 90% or more gorgeously stunning people (and that somehow remained so on an island after a crash landing, I might add). Lost is an easy example to point out (because most are at least familiar with it) but it's hardly limited to that series.

Going to go off an a tangent here, but that same thing happens in other cases to. Plenty of people seem to like to say "Well gay people commit suicide more often so being gay is bad" completely ignoring that it is not being gay that causes suicide, but that they are being treated like shit by homophobes.
Another example, some girl was giving a pro-life speech in a class of mine. She said some stuff blah blah anyway, she got to the point where she said something along the lines of "Many religions will shame women who get abortions and require them to do thing in order to make amends." Not too long after that she says that an argument against abortion is that it women feel ashamed after doing it and regret it. It''s no fucking surprise that women feel ashamed and regret having an abortion...when they are shamed and forced to make amends for having an abortion.
Seems people have no problem treating others like shit because they do something they don't like, and then when that person gets depressed, kills themselves, or feels shame they are quick to point out that "Ah, that thing I dislike about you is what caused that! Better ban it."

This is why I said MAY. ;)

As in i'm not saying it does or doesn't, imo.

Many folks (even old feminists) are talking about having a masculine equivalent, though for slightly different reasons. Men get told very frequently that if they don't achieve massive success and/or are born into the wrong circumstances that their lives are basically worthless and meaningless. I'm sure you've been on here long enough to have heard me go over this before, but for others' benefit: Yes, such a movement does exist, though it is so far relatively small.

Plus, as was brought up earlier, there's the whole issue of masculinity in general. That there are certain things that "Men do" and certain things "Men don't do" because it's unmanly. Thankfully that's starting to go away a little in recent years.

Ironically, if you end up with a daughter, you suddenly get a "pass" to do a crap ton of things that would have caused many to look down their noses at you if you didn't. Compare the reaction of most folks to learn a childless 35 year old man likes to watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic vs. someone who has a pre-teen daughter. Now that I have a daughter, I notice a ton of stuff like this.

This. Making porn and sex in general was also kind of a hobby of his, so he was talking a lot about his wife, who is also a porn actress, friends and such. None of them really sounded either ruined for life nor too poor to be able to leave the industry if they wished to do so. He actually sounded more concerned about people badmouthing those in the industry, as Leroux said. There are many people who actually ARE exhibicioninsts and enjoy a plenty of sex, and saying that what they do is 'bad' is hardly helping.