Posted November 07, 2012
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
orcishgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
SimonG
SimonG597
SimonG Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2010
From Germany
Posted November 07, 2012
SimonG: It is anachronistic and cuts out many voters of the election. Leading to many problems. Not to mention the democratic issues. (A vote from somebody in Ohio being more important than the vote of somebody in Texas).
stoicsentry: I'm curious, I know you bring up some things that many people object to about the electoral college, but I'm curious... how much do you know about the historical rationale for the electoral college? Part of my training was the knowledge if different democratic systems, history and development of classical and modern democracies and so forth. The US is the oldest and first modern democracy. Always important to look to.
We in Europe have pretty much the next evolution of that system, although for different reasons.
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
orcishgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted November 07, 2012
Because it's a rather backwards way of voting and exacerbates most of the problems with simple majority voting instead of alleviates them. It also has the tendency to shut down third parties before they even start as everyone is too busy voting for the lesser evil, because otherwise that motherfucker they REALLY HATE might get in.
Essentially it largely leads to disenfranchisement on a national level, even though congress isn't chosen that way, people tend to vote for the same party all the way through and that means sticking to whatever parties are "allowed" for the POTUS.
Most of the democratic world has come up with clever ways to alleviate some of these problems, they all have some shortcomings, but are rather largely considered superior to the electoral college. These solutions aren't new, so we're consequently considered rather backward. Well, frankly, the US is extremely backward on a lot of things compared to the rest of the first world...
Essentially it largely leads to disenfranchisement on a national level, even though congress isn't chosen that way, people tend to vote for the same party all the way through and that means sticking to whatever parties are "allowed" for the POTUS.
Most of the democratic world has come up with clever ways to alleviate some of these problems, they all have some shortcomings, but are rather largely considered superior to the electoral college. These solutions aren't new, so we're consequently considered rather backward. Well, frankly, the US is extremely backward on a lot of things compared to the rest of the first world...
SimonG
SimonG597
SimonG Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2010
From Germany
Pompfinebara
-
Pompfinebara Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Aug 2011
From Austria
Posted November 07, 2012
stoicsentry: I'm curious, I know you bring up some things that many people object to about the electoral college, but I'm curious... how much do you know about the historical rationale for the electoral college?
I know why the American election system is how it is, but why is that an issue? We don't live in the times of horse carriages anymore, there is TV and internet now - so why not change the system according to modern inventions? Also, since the other thread appears to be dead, I'm repeating my question here:
I just read about a popular vote in Puerto Rico about becoming the 51st state of the USA, which was decided heavily in favor of statehood, but everything I could find about what that means was very vague.
Is there an American who knows more about this?
ashout
New User
ashout Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2009
From United States
Gunsang
Enter Title Here
Gunsang Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2011
From China, People's Republic of
Posted November 07, 2012
orcishgamer: Umm, because if he lived in a non-swing state it wouldn't be okay for him to vote for the guy he likes...?
In a swing state I believe you need to choose between candidates who have a chance, because the stakes are higher. In a state like Texas making a statement by choosing who you like rather than the candidates who have a chance allows you to choose the person you like the most and still doesn't affect the national election. I believe swing state voters have a duty to choose the candidate among the ones who have a chance. Look at what Nadar did to Gore's campaign. If a few thousand of the Green Party votes that went to Nadar went to Gore instead (and I'm sure the Green Party voter would prefer Gore to Bush) Gore would have won Florida and won the Election. She was on the ballot here in Colorado as well.
Post edited November 07, 2012 by Gunsang
WhiteElk
maker of tie-dye
WhiteElk Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2011
From United States
Posted November 07, 2012
Ahh you drank their cool-aid. Sorry man. There is hope though. One just need think for themselves and see the obvious demographics of Occupy. We are ALL represented in that movement. See for yourselves. Look upon the faces who march for us. See the young and old, the fat and the thin, the rich and the poor, the student and the professional, et all. i see em all out there. i see em on the livestreams, i see em in the photos, i follow journals and i've stood out in the cold and assemebled with em. i've meet in a private room of a brewery, and in a small town tavern. Talking community over drinks. devising peaceful revolution over the net. i don't see what you say you see. OWS=spoiled rich kids... ?? bull fucking shit dude!! Check it with your own brain and you will see. ooof... i think i did good not popping off on that despite my buzz and your bullshit :)
stonebro
Love Lumberjacks
stonebro Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Netherlands
Posted November 07, 2012
I would like to thank America for not fucking this one up.
SimonG
SimonG597
SimonG Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2010
From Germany
Posted November 07, 2012
Not to mention that there was an increase in voter turnout. Another good sign.
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
orcishgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted November 07, 2012
Gunsang: In a swing state I believe you need to choose between candidates who have a chance, because the stakes are higher. In a state like Texas making a statement by choosing who you like rather than the candidates who have a chance allows you to choose the person you like the most and still doesn't affect the national election. I believe swing state voters have a duty to choose the candidate among the ones who have a chance. Look at what Nadar did to Gore's campaign. If a few thousand of the Green Party votes that went to Nadar went to Gore instead (and I'm sure the Green Party voter would prefer Gore to Bush) Gore would have won Florida and won the Election.
And this shit right here is why our voter turn out is so low it's the laughing stock of the democratic world. His "duty", as a voter, is to vote for the best candidate as he sees it. Not vote for some asshole he doesn't like just because a majority of the country happens to be too fucking scared to vote for the guy they actually like. This is the reason this shit will never change here. Most people don't even go to the polls (I know I fucking didn't), why does it matter if some guy in Ohio votes for a dude he actually liked.
Those people who voted for Nader didn't like Gore, that's why he lost, quit blaming voters for voting for the person they actually like, it's what they're supposed to fucking do!
Post edited November 07, 2012 by orcishgamer
WhiteElk
maker of tie-dye
WhiteElk Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2011
From United States
Posted November 07, 2012
hehe i have pride in country and shame. i'm glad that some of our earth neighbors understand the US is not a lost cause. Many other nations have matured far past the US. The US now follows some of the imperial bs that other great nations have grown past already. We could use your help in getting past the US stage of international dickheadedness. But then your stuffed by the same enemy we are. There is entity we share as enemy. Lets kill it and move on :)
Wishbone
Red herring
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From Denmark
SimonG
SimonG597
SimonG Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2010
From Germany
Posted November 07, 2012
WhiteElk: Ahh you drank their cool-aid. Sorry man. There is hope though. One just need think for themselves and see the obvious demographics of Occupy. We are ALL represented in that movement. See for yourselves. Look upon the faces who march for us. See the young and old, the fat and the thin, the rich and the poor, the student and the professional, et all. i see em all out there. i see em on the livestreams, i see em in the photos, i follow journals and i've stood out in the cold and assemebled with em. i've meet in a private room of a brewery, and in a small town tavern. Talking community over drinks. devising peaceful revolution over the net. i don't see what you say you see. OWS=spoiled rich kids... ?? bull fucking shit dude!! Check it with your own brain and you will see. ooof... i think i did good not popping off on that despite my buzz and your bullshit :)
And while you did all that, I was writing laws which are now in effect and actually equalized (through some legal loophole) gays/non-married couples with married couples in an increasingly homophobic nation. It got me blacklisted, but it was worth it. I made a change. A real change people are feeling right now. How did I do that? By years of education and training. Putting me in positions where I could actually change stuff. Not by posting it on twitter with my macbook.
dada_dave
Once New User
dada_dave Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2010
From United States