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General discussion (archive)Obama wins re-election(435 posts)(435 posts)
(435 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 07, 2012
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SkeleTony: Disagree. I think the myth of Republicans being better at economic/fiscal issues has been pretty widely debunked over the last 20 years. I think Obama got re-elected because people honestly worried about the chasm between the wealthiest and the middle class getting any wider and more of our jobs being sent to China, India and Mexico and the %1 refusing to reinvest into the economy (through a proper progressive tax system) while our roads and bridges and schools fall apart.
Obama won on women and minorities who were scared of Republican social policies, not the economy. If everything else was removed from the debate Americans will choose smaller government and lower taxes every time.
Posted November 07, 2012
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StingingVelvet: If everything else was removed from the debate Americans will choose smaller government and lower taxes every time.
Do you really think so? People usually say they would vote for such things; right up to the point when they realize that their sacred entitlement or subsidy will be cut. I am just not so sure a majority would willing remove their mouth from the teat of government largesse so easily.
Posted November 07, 2012
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keeveek: Was there any difference between them anyway? Congrats to Obama. One tip now: you can't say "It was my predecessor's fault" anymore ;P
Lol. This term is ALL on him 8). Congrats Mr. President.
Posted November 07, 2012
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Krypsyn: Do you really think so? People usually say they would vote for such things; right up to the point when they realize that their sacred entitlement or subsidy will be cut. I am just not so sure a majority would willing remove their mouth from the teat of government largesse so easily.
When I say Americans I of course mean the majority of them. That could change and depends on the economy but overall I think were are mostly a "give me small government" country to this day.

Until the Republicans finally abandon the good old boys who keep them sexist, racist and overly religious though we will never know.
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Damuna: If I didn't know better, I'd think you were pining for the 1950s.
What?
Post edited November 07, 2012 by StingingVelvet
Posted November 07, 2012
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StingingVelvet: ...
Obama won on women and minorities who were scared of Republican social policies, not the economy. If everything else was removed from the debate Americans will choose smaller government and lower taxes every time.
I am not completely convinced of this. Surely this is a strong tradition, but such things can change and while people in general do not like to pay taxes they also don't want to cut social programms. This is a bit odd since you can't have the cake and eat it. So people will choose a middle ground and currently the middle ground looks like Obama. Cutting spending a bit, increasing taxes a bit, especially for the rich, letting the government approximately the size it is.

I guess this is what Americans want on average.
Posted November 07, 2012
You gotta love this here rant monologue.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

Aaaaah, those sweet tears .... they sustain me.
Post edited November 07, 2012 by stonebro
Posted November 07, 2012
Well this seems to have gone down easy. Not much surprise for many us (including me who resist neo-imperialism) , Is dead end. Other great nations have run this course. Most have irreparably fallen. Many nations have matured well past the US of fucking of A's attempt to survive adolescence.

You other grand nations suck also. But you done fucked up long ago and for decades have been maturing past the US state. 'Course we all been used by another. Burt the US is the last of the big nations to initiate this New World Order run. The world dont want it, even the psychopathic run USA dont want it. Now the fight really is class system warfare. Been engaged for long time. Only now has words been defined to it. Ahh the dinosaur dies, while the fucking bird morphs new survival but with the dinosaur warriors mortal support.
.
Posted November 07, 2012
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StingingVelvet: When I say Americans I of course mean the majority of them. That could change and depends on the economy but overall I think were are mostly a "give me small government" country to this day.
I hope you are right. all i see, year after year, is this country, as a whole, becoming more reliant and dependent on the federal government. Hopefully this trend can be reversed.

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StingingVelvet: Until the Republicans finally abandon the good old boys who keep them sexist, racist and overly religious though we will never know.
Not only that, but we would need to find someone that is willing to put the effort into running for office, only to turn right around and limit their power. I am sure there are people out there that would do this, but it does run counter to human nature somewhat. Especially when you consider the type of personalities who tend to want to run for political office in the first place.
Posted November 07, 2012
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Damuna: It's a joke. What you seem to be suggesting is the 1950s, because of the way you mentioned women and minorities and then hypothesised on removing non-economy factors, which makes it look like you're suggesting Republicans would win if it was only white males voting.
They probably would.

Of all the women who voted in this election, last I heard 55% voted Obama. In the age groups, Obama won every range below 40 years hands down. You're basically looking at male voters, 40+ years of age, as the core republican voters.

Want to bet the majority of them are white too?

Seriously, if the GOP is ever going to win back the White House, they've got to come around and shift their policies as far from the dogmas of the religious right as possible. They're losing women voters on the idiotic anti-abortion laws and talking about how rape is to be considered an Act of God. They're losing young voters for a whole host of reasons, but anti-abortion, anti-education and anti-sensible-tax-system policies are no doubt the largest.

Case in point; the core republican voter is 4 years older next term. If they don't change their policies, they're unlikely to win back any of the women voters and young voters they've lost in the past 8 years, and they'll compound their problems by losing some of their core voters to, well, death.
Posted November 07, 2012
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Damuna: Been drinking? :D
Well yeah, i admitted such hear and there. Is seasonal Hard Apple Cider i dip into now. And i got a good fucking buzz on and whats your fucking point? Have you got any specific beefs with my words, or are you just talkin stupid shit? i'm here now for a time, so bring it!
Post edited November 07, 2012 by WhiteElk
Posted November 07, 2012
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Damuna: It's a joke. What you seem to be suggesting is the 1950s, because of the way you mentioned women and minorities and then hypothesised on removing non-economy factors, which makes it look like you're suggesting Republicans would win if it was only white males voting.
Except that Republicans, as the Party of the Union, got the minority vote rather handily in the 1950s (it wasn't until LBJ in the 1960s that this began to change). Also, women got the right to vote with the 19th Amendment, which was passed in 1920...

I got your joke, but i was baffled a little on your choice of time period. Did you mean 1850s instead of 1950s?
Posted November 07, 2012
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WhiteElk: Well yeah, i admitted such hear and there. Is seasonal Hard Apple Cider i dip into now. And i got a good fucking buzz on and whats your fucking point? Have you got any specific beefs with my words, or are you just talkin stupid shit? i'm here now for a time, so bring it!
You not currently much sense are make.
Posted November 07, 2012
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stonebro: They probably would.

Of all the women who voted in this election, last I heard 55% voted Obama. In the age groups, Obama won every range below 40 years hands down. You're basically looking at male voters, 40+ years of age, as the core republican voters.

Want to bet the majority of them are white too?

Seriously, if the GOP is ever going to win back the White House, they've got to come around and shift their policies as far from the dogmas of the religious right as possible. They're losing women voters on the idiotic anti-abortion laws and talking about how rape is to be considered an Act of God. They're losing young voters for a whole host of reasons, but anti-abortion, anti-education and anti-sensible-tax-system policies are no doubt the largest.

Case in point; the core republican voter is 4 years older next term. If they don't change their policies, they're unlikely to win back any of the women voters and young voters they've lost in the past 8 years, and they'll compound their problems by losing some of their core voters to, well, death.
This.

This is not a normal swing back and forth. Obama won based on very real demographics changes the Republicans need to confront if they want to stay relevant.
Posted November 07, 2012
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Damuna: Mostly, I find it comical how women are described in terms of being a minority group with regards to voting.
That would be comical, seeing as how there are more women with the right to vote in the US than there are men.
Posted November 07, 2012
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Damuna: Mostly, I find it comical how women are described in terms of being a minority group with regards to voting.
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stonebro: That would be comical, seeing as how there are more women with the right to vote in the US than there are men.
I don't really get the basis for the joke, since I said women AND minorities, not minorities like women or some-such thing.

The point is we're talking demographics. As Latinos, Blacks, women and youth become stronger demographics for a variety of reasons their voting power increases. Republicans have a core good old boy network that actively upsets these groups to curry favor with comparatively weaker groups like the tea party and religious right. This will have to change if they want to win another national election.

It works fine for the House though, if they're content with that.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Obama wins re-election(435 posts)(435 posts)
(435 posts)