moba's have a very steep learning curve.you have to invest hundreds of hours just to get semi good at it.

I think the idea that being a gamer is some kind of contest is a toxic concept. Labeling people as "not gamers" or "bad gamers" because they aren't quite committed *enough* or good *enough* is the most toxic version of marking (defining who is IN and who is OUT of a group) I've seen in any broad culture.

To more directly address your question:

Those games take a while to build the basic skills to play well. That's deliberate in their design. New players are expected to play notably less well. Different players have different learning curves for the various skills. If you enjoy the learning process and striving towards mastery, you might eventually find a lot of rewarding entertainment here. However, that initial investment is more or less necessary.

I don't like this game structure. I think it's not for me. However, if you think this game structure is not a big deal, there are ways to make the learning process more fun such as playing vs bots, playing with friends, and so on.

Getting yelled at and letting your team down as a new player is really unavoidable for a new player.

Yeah, that shit scares me so much that I largely avoid multiplayer games. I can't stand the pressure of multiplayer games where the team has to work as a well-oiled machine. As if it weren't enough that I feel bad in case I actually screw things up for my team I may (and most likely will) end up additionally getting shit from others - who may or may not be as much responsible for the defeat as me. I play video games to feel good about myself and I don't want that to be a gamble. In single player games the worst that can happen is that I get a little frustrated or bored but not that my self-esteem goes down the drain.

Also because of this I hate every developer who does not include a training mode with bots in a multiplayer game. There's been a few games which I skipped (or at least the the multiplayer portion) solely because I didn't feel ready to participate in online matches because I had no chance to get acquainted with the gameplay beforehand. Also I'd appreciate if more developers included anonymous gameplay *without* a chance for the players to communicate with each other except through simple gestures/signals etc.. Unless there's a MOBA game like that the genre is completely lost on me since by now 99.99% of all players I may encounter in a MOBA match are bound to be experienced in the genre and far far better than me - so there's almost no chance my first matches will be fun and if they aren't gonna be fun I won't stay long enough to improve my skills and start enjoying the game.

And of course this is only really an issue with team games - which seems to apply to most good multiplayer games these days. I really wish there were more great free for all deathmatch games like in the old days. :P

^ +1

No-one's good at MOBAs. Even if you think you are, you aren't.

Literally the only thing I enjoy about fortress assault games is the hero personalities and designs in Dota 2. Otherwise I don't see the point at all of an RTS where you control only one unit 90% of the game.

True... it's enjoyable watching capable people playing tho, at least they know what they are doing :P

There's this channel PurgeGamers i watched couple of games, pretty entertaining.

You must be playing with the wrong characters. Some characters in these games, just suck.

A "good gamer" is someone having fun. It doesn't matter what game you are playing, or how you are playing it, as long as you personally have fun playing a game then you are a "good gamer." If you enjoy MOBAs play MOBAs, if the other people are being dicks, then find another crowd to play with. If you want to play FPSs, or RPGs, or rogue-likes, or platformers, or point and clicks, or 4Xs, or MMOs then do so! Play whatever you want with whomever you like; don't let other people have an influence on whether or not YOU are having a good time. That's just silly.

I disagree. A good gamer is someone who doesn't screw things up for his team, dragging them down. Someone who is good at the game. When you are gaming online, you are being an asshat by only focusing on your fun. If a gamer, only wants to focus on himself or herself, there is single player for that.

Fortunately the internet is wide enough for two divergent opinions. You play with your friends, I play with mine, and we all have fun. :D

MOBAs are great with a group of friends you can play co-op with. I wouldn't touch ranked or PvP with a ten foot pole though, precisely for the reasons already stated. The people who think they're good at them are fucking terrible human beings who frequently exhibit the same behaviours as those they berate, but I imagine if they think if they scream the loudest at "the new guy" their own shortcomings are less obvious.


But yeah, playing with friends who don't give a fuck about competitive play is the best way to experience a MOBA, play around with unfamiliar characters and really get the most out of the game. Really, even playing private PVP with say ten of your friends would still allow you to do the same thing, if you really like the games. :)

Nah, it just means you're not good at MOBA's.

I don't even like the genre, I find those sorts of games to be boring. There's plenty of other games I and many others are good at, that can qualify one as a good gamer (whatever that might mean to each person).

That's why they're best played with friends. I learned through solo play because I have thick skin and I catch on faster that way. You have to learn how to ignore people and focus on what the team needs done to win. Once you realize that those whiny teen-males are the worst thing in the community, you can move along and enjoy a game full of deep strategic gameplay. ^^

Also note that even if you're decent/good, people will still shout at you. That's just how it goes in the game. You feel it more as a noob because you feel like you let the team down or something like that, but you do get better as you play more and you can't play more if you let idiots chase you off. That's why people call them "cancer" and use the term "cancerous community".

If you want to learn how to play, you need to practice with the roles and learn the appropriate items for those roles. You don't buy the big, damaging sword looking thing as a support. Damage dealers don't need to build like a tank, you deal even more damage so the other team has to spend money to tank. I recommend that if you think these games are cool or could be cool, that you persist and find nicer people to play with. :)

I shouldn't of used the word "asshat". Sorry. The word "asshat" is not the right word for someone who is simply being selfish because being selfish is not a bad thing(it's natural) but if you are being selfish, people will have a good reason to be nasty to you if your way of playing is ruining the game for them. Just because people don't like what you like, doesn't mean, they are "dicks". The problem is, a lot of people just want to have fun but a lot of people want to win and only want to win because they are very competitive. That is why it is essential for games to have a casual mode and a competitive mode like CS GO.