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General discussion (archive)Norway's Mass Killer Threatens Hunger Strike(123 posts)(123 posts)
(123 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 18, 2014
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cw8: The jailcells over there look better than our typical flat apartments, possibly bigger too.
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tinyE: Mind if I ask how you know that? :D
http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083_2137374,00.html
Post edited February 18, 2014 by cw8
Posted February 18, 2014
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tinyE: Mind if I ask how you know that? :D
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cw8: http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083_2137374,00.html
That isn't a cell, it's the honeymoon sweet at Holliday Inn!

Shit that's three times the size of my dorm room in college, and I had to share that.
Posted February 18, 2014
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tinyE: Mind if I ask how you know that? :D
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cw8: http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083_2137374,00.html
Does everyone in Norway really have that standard of living? I really doubt it. I don't know for sure but I really doubt it.

And if not, it's kind of ****ed up that prisoners get that but (possibly) law abiding, hard-working Norwegian citizens don't.
Posted February 18, 2014
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monkeydelarge: If you take away the horse back riding, the game consoles, everything enjoyable then you are sabotaging the rehabilitation process.
Sure, you can't take away everything enjoyable, if you did then prisoners will revolt and then you have no other option than to put them down violently which is something you were trying to avoid in the first place. However, give a little finger and they will take the entire hand. A good prison director has to be able to find the exact right balance between not being too cruel and not being too lenient. Good behavior from prisoners should be rewarded but throwing tantrums should certainly not, under any circumstances. I'm going to go as far as to classify serious things like hunger strike as temper tantrums if it's about non-essential things like entertainment options.
I disagree on anything that is considered a luxury even for the regular citizen. Horseback riding is something many normal people dream of and simply can't afford. By giving a convicted rapist free horseback lessons that the taxpayer has to pay for but can't even afford for themselves, you are severely sabotaging rehabilitation as an institution because of the public anger this creates.
Posted February 18, 2014
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monkeydelarge: If you take away the horse back riding, the game consoles, everything enjoyable then you are sabotaging the rehabilitation process.
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awalterj: Sure, you can't take away everything enjoyable, if you did then prisoners will revolt and then you have no other option than to put them down violently which is something you were trying to avoid in the first place. However, give a little finger and they will take the entire hand. A good prison director has to be able to find the exact right balance between not being too cruel and not being too lenient. Good behavior from prisoners should be rewarded but throwing tantrums should certainly not, under any circumstances. I'm going to go as far as to classify serious things like hunger strike as temper tantrums if it's about non-essential things like entertainment options.
I disagree on anything that is considered a luxury even for the regular citizen. Horseback riding is something many normal people dream of and simply can't afford. By giving a convicted rapist free horseback lessons that the taxpayer has to pay for but can't even afford for themselves, you are severely sabotaging rehabilitation as an institution because of the public anger this creates.
Giving prisoners the opportunity to go horse back riding shouldn't create public anger because they should understand it is for helping these prisoners rehabilitate. There is something wrong with the public if they are angry because prisoners get to go horse back riding and they dont. That kind of public anger should be ignored because it's simply petty jealousy. And if it can't be ignored, they should be encouraged to not be so childish. That would be like raging because handicapped people get nice parking spots reserved for them while everyone else gets bad parking spots far away from the super market. In fact, a society full of childish people would make things far worse in a country than people having to give up some tax money so prisoners can go horse back riding so that they can learn to be happy and peaceful people. Don't believe me? Come and visit the USA and you will see what I mean. You will see what a country is like when most of it's citizens are nothing but overgrown babies.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Posted February 19, 2014
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monkeydelarge: Giving prisoners the opportunity to go horse back riding shouldn't create public anger because they should understand it is for helping these prisoners rehabilitate. There is something wrong with the public if they are angry because prisoners get to go horse back riding and they dont. That kind of public anger should be ignored because it's simply petty jealousy. And if it can't be ignored, they should be encouraged to not be so childish. That would be like raging because handicapped people get nice parking spots reserved for them while everyone else gets bad parking spots far away from the super market. In fact, a society full of childish people would make things far worse in a country than people having to give up some tax money so prisoners can go horse back riding so that they can learn to be happy and peaceful people. Don't believe me? Come and visit the USA and you will see what I mean. You will see what a country is like when most of it's citizens are nothing but overgrown babies.
many don't rage about the parking spots, they just take them (I'm referring to those without either a disability placard or license plate bearing the disability logo). & that does make harder for those of us that doesn't want to need to take up the the next spot just to get out. Or wonder if I'll have wait for a total stranger to leave first (if they parked on the side with the wheelchair lift installed.
Post edited February 19, 2014 by Rusty_Gunn
Posted February 19, 2014
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cw8: http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083_2137374,00.html
In one sense, I find those prisons a good idea. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate and prepare them for a proper life outside of the prison walls. Many habitual criminals engage in crime because they simply don't have any direction in life. Giving them a sense of direction helps to prevent them from re-offending, and indeed, it has been statistically proven that Norway has the lowest reoffender rates going.

People rail against such establishments because they don't satisfy their warped, vigilantistic sense of justice. They have no sense or understanding of actual justice in the real sense of the word.

The problem with such establishments is that they do not effectively cater for the minority of prisoners who are wholly unrehabilitable, like Anders Breivik. This asshole doesn't consider his time in prison to be a means to sort his life out - he just sees it as a way to mock the people he killed and their families. I'm not sure if he is simply insane, or whether he genuinely is an evil cunt. But the fact remains that he is obviously in the wrong place if he feels the need to hunger strike over a fucking PS2.

I would find it a damn shame if Breivik succeeded in denying criminals with a genuine interest in turning their lives around this opportunity. It's a prison system that works, but it doesn't work for everyone.
Posted February 19, 2014
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Sabin_Stargem: I approve of how Norway handles criminals...however, this particular inmate deserves nothing more than standard accommodations. The good stuff should go to folks that are willing to work towards rehabilitation.
Finally a comment I can completely agree with, including the "I approve" part.

A delusional Norwegian mass-murderer demanding something is not the same as the prison or officials agreeing to it.

The primary objective of the prisons and the justice system should be to rehabilitate criminals, not to be some kind of vengeance system to satisfy the vengeful anger of the public towards hated criminals.

If some criminal doesn't seem to want to be rehabilitated, and commits more crimes... that's why repeat offenders get bigger sentences (yes, even in Nordic countries), and rehabilitation attempts will be extended only so far.
Posted February 19, 2014
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cw8: http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083_2137374,00.html
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jamyskis: People rail against such establishments because they don't satisfy their warped, vigilantistic sense of justice. They have no sense or understanding of actual justice in the real sense of the word.
Exactly! It's nice to know, I'm not the only one intelligent enough to see people screaming for "justice" for what it really is... The desire to see people suffer, the desire to see people die to satisfy the dark twisted part that dwells deep inside every human being.
Post edited February 19, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Posted February 19, 2014
People like him should've been shot in sight. There's no need to feed a disgrace like him.
Posted February 19, 2014
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tinyE: On a side note where you people last year when Richard Ramirez died? I wished him good riddance and got massive derepping for being cruel, like the world is gonna miss that asshole.
You were downrepped for speaking ill of the greatest genius of the 20th century.
Posted February 19, 2014
Give him Nintendo Virtual Boy. Make him play on it 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Posted February 19, 2014
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HypersomniacLive: Do you know through what process rehabilitation programs are designed content wise? Is there a committee, and if yes, what are the qualifications/ requirements to participate in it? Do convicts get evaluated, and if yes how?

What your examples demonstrate is poor judgement and poor choices by those in decision making positions. It's actually mind boggling that a convicted rapist would be assigned a single unarmed female social therapist during horseback riding (therapy) in the woods or that the hooves cutting would be done by the convict given that it requires the use of a tool that he could use as a lethal weapon.
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awalterj: The unsettling thing is that the people on rehabilitation evaluation committees, meaning the psychiatrists, therapists etc are all trained and certified professionals and even so, there repeatedly are cases where things go awfully wrong. Not always resulting in murders and newspaper coverage as in the Anthamatten case, but wrong and with harmful consequences nonetheless.
Humans (even professionals) make mistakes, and spending more money means there are more humans involved which means the potential for things to go wrong is not reduced no matter how much money is thrown into these rehab programs.
What is needed is more intelligent and efficient solutions but unfortunately, intelligence can't be bought (unlike a Playstation 2 or 3 that you throw at a prisoner just to make him temporarily shut up...until the next console comes out. This doesn't work with spoiled kids and so what makes people think it would ever work on grown up criminals.
The problem with many of these "professionals" is that they lack common sense resulting in their bad decisions. Most of these un-rehabitable "soulless" beings demand the attention they crave believing their demands will make life better for themselves and they generally get what they want. They aren't capable and don't care about anyone or anything else. Meanwhile, those who are there for non-violent crimes or bad choice crimes, toe the line, try to behave and stay out of trouble, but never get the attention or the feeling someone cares..
Posted February 19, 2014
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jamyskis: People rail against such establishments because they don't satisfy their warped, vigilantistic sense of justice. They have no sense or understanding of actual justice in the real sense of the word.
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monkeydelarge: Exactly! It's nice to know, I'm not the only one intelligent enough to see people screaming for "justice" for what it really is... The desire to see people suffer, the desire to see people die to satisfy the dark twisted part that dwells deep inside every human being.
Re justice: It's been said by someone in this country ( U.S. ), that we aren't guaranteed justice, but we have a chance at it. I can't think of his name, but I can picture him in my mind. He uses a wheelchair and I think he owned the Hustler magazine.
Posted February 19, 2014
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stoicsentry: http://news.msn.com/world/norways-mass-killer-threatens-to-go-on-hunger-strike

I believe in rehabilitation, too, but WTF Norway? Sounds like this dude has it pretty easy. Poor baby murdered 77 people and now he only gets to play PS2 games? Cry me a river.
Well, that guy is never ever going to walk free. If he does, someone will no doubt put end to that rather fast. Might actually happen in any jail or other institute he is in eventually.

Anyways, would have been far more humane for everyone to just ***** him back then.
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General discussion (archive)Norway's Mass Killer Threatens Hunger Strike(123 posts)(123 posts)
(123 posts)