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PoSSeSSeDCoW: It's amazing how many times Roman5 has stated he has no hope left for Mass Effect 3.

One could certainly argue it's an obsession of his.
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Crassmaster: Or really, how many times he does this for whatever AAA game approaches in his latest pathetic bid for attention. You know, when he's not bumping his own long dead threads in hopes of getting attention.

It's just sad.
I don't do this for "Attention" Everyone knows me on these forums already, and the "AAA game" has nothing to do with this

A Company or a Publisher do either stupid Shit or Bullshit - I call them out on it, easy as that, and let me tell you that EA with Bioware have been some of the worst offenders this generation (Alongside with Capcom and Activision)

Is criticism of valid points not allowed on these forums now?
Well, none of the points are valid as far as I can tell.
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Whitecroc: Well, none of the points are valid as far as I can tell.
-Bioware Dumbing down the game

-Bioware making up the story as they go along

-Game not even released and already tons and tons of DLC announced for it

All seem like valid points to me
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Roman5: -Bioware Dumbing down the game
Everything from the escapitst article is clearly pointed out to target new players who haven't played ME1 or 2. They even point it out in the very first paragraph "... to disprove the idea that players can't enjoy a sequel without playing its predecessors."
Not having to have played the predecessors to get everything from the story is hardly dumbing down. Especially when you don't get those additional hints starting with a previous savegame, i.e. you know this stuff.

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Roman5: -Bioware making up the story as they go along
They admitted to “... we kind of cast some lines out into the next game that we knew we would have to think of something with. We didn’t know what exactly, how it would happen, but we knew what we had to do.”"
This is hardly pointing at or even evidence that they're talking about the main storyline here.
Much more likely they're talking about something like the Shepard fan appearing in ME1, knowing that they have / want to continue this in ME2 somehow, or the whole Rachni part from ME1 (which are highly likely to have an influence in ME3), that they'll need to point at them somehow in ME2, without it being finalized exactly how.

Having a mainstory line / storyboard is one thing. To think that they pinpointed everything and didn't added / dropped / changed smaller parts within 4+ years development time, just ridiculous.

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Roman5: -Game not even released and already tons and tons of DLC announced for it
Somewhat agreed here. Yet it remains to be seen just what those DLCs include. Are we talking about actual content or vanity stuff like Batman AC skins?

Dunno, but I want some actual facts before calling valid points. Looks pretty much hyperbolical for me.
Post edited January 28, 2012 by Siannah
The 200$ is probably for one DLC that allows you to get the best ending in SP.

I was going to get this on day one, but I think I'll hold out and see what happens vis a vis the MP ending as I dont do MP.
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Crassmaster: Or really, how many times he does this for whatever AAA game approaches in his latest pathetic bid for attention. You know, when he's not bumping his own long dead threads in hopes of getting attention.

It's just sad.
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Roman5: I don't do this for "Attention" Everyone knows me on these forums already, and the "AAA game" has nothing to do with this

A Company or a Publisher do either stupid Shit or Bullshit - I call them out on it, easy as that, and let me tell you that EA with Bioware have been some of the worst offenders this generation (Alongside with Capcom and Activision)

Is criticism of valid points not allowed on these forums now?
What valid points are you talking about? Have you actually bothered to read the links on your first post?
Post edited January 28, 2012 by OmegaX
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Roman5: -Bioware Dumbing down the game
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Siannah: Everything from the escapitst article is clearly pointed out to target new players who haven't played ME1 or 2. They even point it out in the very first paragraph "... to disprove the idea that players can't enjoy a sequel without playing its predecessors."
Not having to have played the predecessors to get everything from the story is hardly dumbing down. Especially when you don't get those additional hints starting with a previous savegame, i.e. you know this stuff.
Actually that is. That is the whole and unadulterated reason people are so "up in flames" about Bioware and their recent (last what 4 years?) bullshit. Their targeting audiences they shouldnt give two fucks about. CoD players dont care about a Sci-fi RPG. Their not going to stop playing their rehashed corridor shooter for a goddamn RPG. We saw it with Dragon Age, they are willing to tear the game in every damn direction to target a audience that isnt there, and in doing so alienate the previous target audience. I loved both the first Mass Effect and the first Dragon Age. What did i get with the sequels? Dumbed down pieces of shit. Granted Mass Effect 2 was MILES less shitty then Dragon Age 2 but the point remains they took a excellent Sci-fi RPG with shooter elements and made a goddamn Gears of War in space, with light RPG elements.

But on topic, i lost hope in Mass Effect 3 when the Co-Op shit was announced to justify their Online Pass, and lost even more when it was said that the multiplayer will affect the singleplayer.
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Crassmaster: Or really, how many times he does this for whatever AAA game approaches in his latest pathetic bid for attention. You know, when he's not bumping his own long dead threads in hopes of getting attention.

It's just sad.
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Roman5: I don't do this for "Attention" Everyone knows me on these forums already, and the "AAA game" has nothing to do with this

A Company or a Publisher do either stupid Shit or Bullshit - I call them out on it, easy as that, and let me tell you that EA with Bioware have been some of the worst offenders this generation (Alongside with Capcom and Activision)

Is criticism of valid points not allowed on these forums now?
-Panic-mongering Chicken Little-esque posts...check.
-Assuming the absolute worst possible conclusion from every little thing...check.
-Bizarre conclusions reached that make people justifiably wonder if you've even read what you're linking to or are just going along with what you read some other guy say about it...check.
-Link to graphic and/or video you had nothing to do with making...check.

That isn't criticism. It's attention whoring. Just like your constant bumps of threads you made a year ago. Look at Roman, everyone.
Did you even read the articles you linked? Where did the 200$ DLC come from?
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StonerMk2: snip
I'm aware of the direction Bioware was / is heading, be it with ME2 with less RPG / more shooter like or DA2. However and despite Bioware holding on to "doing a lot right with DA2" in their marketing speeches, I believe they did learn a few lessons especially with that one.
Why? Introducing a action, story and RPG mode certainly points in that direction. How that translates into actual gameplay, remains to be seen.

Also they don't need coop to justify online pass - DA:O with the updater / validating DLCs went in that direction already and ME2 with cerberus-network even more. Can't say I liked the announcement of multiplayer either and can't see myself using it much if at all. If it's needed to get the best possible ending, is still something you hear different calls depending on the source - let's see it before claiming foulplay.

However and regardless of how sceptic one might or should be (I certainly am) about Bioware and ME3 - the pointed out article was all about removing hurdles for players new to the series.
Imaging yourself playing ME2 without having touched ME1 before. How much would have the story made sense for you? That's what's been talked about in the escapist article and this doesn't have anything to do with "dumbing down".
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Roman5: I don't do this for "Attention" Everyone knows me on these forums already, and the "AAA game" has nothing to do with this

A Company or a Publisher do either stupid Shit or Bullshit - I call them out on it, easy as that, and let me tell you that EA with Bioware have been some of the worst offenders this generation (Alongside with Capcom and Activision)

Is criticism of valid points not allowed on these forums now?
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OmegaX: What valid points are you talking about? Have you actually bothered to read the links on your first post?
I have, please see my previous post in this thread, all seem like valid points to me
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Roman5: I don't do this for "Attention" Everyone knows me on these forums already, and the "AAA game" has nothing to do with this

A Company or a Publisher do either stupid Shit or Bullshit - I call them out on it, easy as that, and let me tell you that EA with Bioware have been some of the worst offenders this generation (Alongside with Capcom and Activision)

Is criticism of valid points not allowed on these forums now?
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Crassmaster: -Panic-mongering Chicken Little-esque posts...check.
-Assuming the absolute worst possible conclusion from every little thing...check.
-Bizarre conclusions reached that make people justifiably wonder if you've even read what you're linking to or are just going along with what you read some other guy say about it...check.
-Link to graphic and/or video you had nothing to do with making...check.

That isn't criticism. It's attention whoring. Just like your constant bumps of threads you made a year ago. Look at Roman, everyone.
- What panic mongering? I'm simply linking links and information for people
- Of course I'm assuming the absolute worst possible conclusion, Bioware has a terrible history and track record this generation
- There are no bizzare "Conclusions" just valid points
- What does that have to do with anything? so if I didn't make it, it isn't valid now?

And I only bump very old threads if there is a valid reason for it
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Whitecroc: Did you even read the articles you linked? Where did the 200$ DLC come from?
http://kotaku.com/5878284/mass-effect-will-set-a-record-for-most-expensive-dlc

Even without the figurines ME3 will have a lot of other DLC which is already planned out and the game isn't even released yet
Post edited January 29, 2012 by Roman5
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Roman5: And I only bump very old threads if there is a valid reason for it
lol
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Roman5: -Bioware Dumbing down the game

-Bioware making up the story as they go along

-Game not even released and already tons and tons of DLC announced for it

All seem like valid points to me
Let's see your valid points one by one:

- From the first article "The first step in accomplishing that feat is programming the AI to interact with players differently depending on whether or not they imported a save from Mass Effect 2. If they did, the characters surrounding them will be much less likely to dump narrative exposition on them during the game, while if they're new, NPCs will drop in more details so the newbies don't feel left out.". You are right, it's terrible that Bioware it's recording extra dialogue to explain things for players new to the series but that won't inconvenience the old fans. Before you ask, that was sarcasm. It seems I have to spell it out for you because your reading comprehension is lacking.

- Read this: “With ME1 and 2 we kind of cast some lines out into the next game that we knew we would have to think of something with. We didn’t know what exactly, how it would happen, but we knew what we had to do.” and "We would start a plot point, you know on a character level or on a macro level... Some things we had pretty specific ideas for how it would work but as we moved forwards we add more detail and start condensing things down into specifics." So yeah, obviously they don't know the specifics of the story for the unreleased games, that's like asking J. K. Rowling if she knew exactly how would Voldemort would die when she had only written book one of the series. It's common for book authors to have a general idea of what they want to do but come up with the specific characters and plot points later when they need it. This one didn't have any sarcasm BTW.

- The third link talks about the MP not the DCL but ok, I'll address both. Let's say you're right, even though you've been wrong about everything before. DA2 and ME2 didn't have $200 worth of DLC, some say DA2 had more DLC planned but it didn't do well so they won't release more. That tells me they'll keep releasing DLC as long as players demand it.

The only somewhat valid point would have been about the MP but you chose not to mention it. According to the video the MP missions are battles for control of certain planets that happen at the same time than the SP campaign so it does make sense to make them contribute to the defeat of the Reapers but they are too combat oriented so I think it's better if they are separate. I bet it'll be enough to beat them once to get the best ending. I get how that can bother some people but it's nothing terrible.

I don't know why I bother. If you really thought you had any valid points it's obvious that any coherent explanation will just fly past you.
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OmegaX: - From the first article "The first step in accomplishing that feat is programming the AI to interact with players differently depending on whether or not they imported a save from Mass Effect 2. If they did, the characters surrounding them will be much less likely to dump narrative exposition on them during the game, while if they're new, NPCs will drop in more details so the newbies don't feel left out.". You are right, it's terrible that Bioware it's recording extra dialogue to explain things for players new to the series but that won't inconvenience the old fans. Before you ask, that was sarcasm. It seems I have to spell it out for you because your reading comprehension is lacking.

- Read this: “With ME1 and 2 we kind of cast some lines out into the next game that we knew we would have to think of something with. We didn’t know what exactly, how it would happen, but we knew what we had to do.” and "We would start a plot point, you know on a character level or on a macro level... Some things we had pretty specific ideas for how it would work but as we moved forwards we add more detail and start condensing things down into specifics." So yeah, obviously they don't know the specifics of the story for the unreleased games, that's like asking J. K. Rowling if she knew exactly how would Voldemort would die when she had only written book one of the series. It's common for book authors to have a general idea of what they want to do but come up with the specific characters and plot points later when they need it. This one didn't have any sarcasm BTW.

- The third link talks about the MP not the DCL but ok, I'll address both. Let's say you're right, even though you've been wrong about everything before. DA2 and ME2 didn't have $200 worth of DLC, some say DA2 had more DLC planned but it didn't do well so they won't release more. That tells me they'll keep releasing DLC as long as players demand it.

The only somewhat valid point would have been about the MP but you chose not to mention it. According to the video the MP missions are battles for control of certain planets that happen at the same time than the SP campaign so it does make sense to make them contribute to the defeat of the Reapers but they are too combat oriented so I think it's better if they are separate. I bet it'll be enough to beat them once to get the best ending. I get how that can bother some people but it's nothing terrible.

I don't know why I bother. If you really thought you had any valid points it's obvious that any coherent explanation will just fly past you.
Let me just say, without any comment on your argument with Roman, that I really apreciate this explanation of what is happening with ME 3, and I am now a little bit more at ease (after only scimming through the rest of the thread before).

+1
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Roman5: -Bioware Dumbing down the game

-Bioware making up the story as they go along

-Game not even released and already tons and tons of DLC announced for it

All seem like valid points to me
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OmegaX: Let's see your valid points one by one:

- From the first article "The first step in accomplishing that feat is programming the AI to interact with players differently depending on whether or not they imported a save from Mass Effect 2. If they did, the characters surrounding them will be much less likely to dump narrative exposition on them during the game, while if they're new, NPCs will drop in more details so the newbies don't feel left out.". You are right, it's terrible that Bioware it's recording extra dialogue to explain things for players new to the series but that won't inconvenience the old fans. Before you ask, that was sarcasm. It seems I have to spell it out for you because your reading comprehension is lacking.

- Read this: “With ME1 and 2 we kind of cast some lines out into the next game that we knew we would have to think of something with. We didn’t know what exactly, how it would happen, but we knew what we had to do.” and "We would start a plot point, you know on a character level or on a macro level... Some things we had pretty specific ideas for how it would work but as we moved forwards we add more detail and start condensing things down into specifics." So yeah, obviously they don't know the specifics of the story for the unreleased games, that's like asking J. K. Rowling if she knew exactly how would Voldemort would die when she had only written book one of the series. It's common for book authors to have a general idea of what they want to do but come up with the specific characters and plot points later when they need it. This one didn't have any sarcasm BTW.

- The third link talks about the MP not the DCL but ok, I'll address both. Let's say you're right, even though you've been wrong about everything before. DA2 and ME2 didn't have $200 worth of DLC, some say DA2 had more DLC planned but it didn't do well so they won't release more. That tells me they'll keep releasing DLC as long as players demand it.

The only somewhat valid point would have been about the MP but you chose not to mention it. According to the video the MP missions are battles for control of certain planets that happen at the same time than the SP campaign so it does make sense to make them contribute to the defeat of the Reapers but they are too combat oriented so I think it's better if they are separate. I bet it'll be enough to beat them once to get the best ending. I get how that can bother some people but it's nothing terrible.

I don't know why I bother. If you really thought you had any valid points it's obvious that any coherent explanation will just fly past you.
- The AI interaction with the saved game feature is a neat addition but I'm afraid you missed my point, my point was the keywords that bioware said themselves: "We are making ME3 more accessible" and "We want Call of Duty's audience" Those words alone should make any ME fan very worried, ME2 was already dumbed down from the first game, it scares me to think what will happen with the third game, and you know something is wrong when a developer tries to make the 3rd game in a series (Which are heavily connected story-wise) "A great place to start"

- Yes I do realize that most trilogies are "Made up as they ago along" What this might mean in this case however is that ME3 may suffer from the same things Uncharted 3 suffered. From what I remember Naughty dog admitted doing the same thing

1st step: pick locations, write story around said locations

2nd step: The game goes from one one location then jumps to another in less than 24 hours. Then goes from one location to another that makes NO SENSE even with the story

This might result in problems in the final game

- My point was: The game isn't even released yet but they already announced a lot of DLC, you know that any publisher/developer that does this instantly should be put up on "CODE RED APPROACH WITH CAUTION, AREA IS MINED" alert (Free DLC is excused from this) because who knows, it might just end up like with Fallout 3 and Prince of Persia (2008) Where the real endings were taken out of the game and sold as DLC

I do actually appreciate your posts and points but I just hope other certain people in this thread would do the same for mine, while I do wish for the game to turn out as best as possible I am less and less optimistic about it every time I read a new newsarticle regarding it
Post edited January 29, 2012 by Roman5