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fortune_p_dawg: Exactly! Because heaven forbid one has to manually install a patch. The labor! The pain!
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GaminggUy45: Yeah i don't get that are people just lazy or has steam spoiled them?
That is not the reason why these clients are such an attractive prospect for many publishers. Patching is a minor inconvenience for the end user, but hosting these patches and such does cost money. Also, steam handles multiplayer matchmaking and all that sort of things for the publisher, meaning less costs for them, and for the end user this one is actually pretty nice. It means that the matchmaking servers won't just go down because the devs/publishers no longer wants to host them.
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HiPhish: Did anyone ever say "man, I killed 200 goblins, I really whish I could let random strangers know that" before achievements existed?
200 goblins? No. But this? Yea sure.
Achievements are actually quite nice, when well implemented. They can highlight interesting challenges and things that are not needed to do, but can be fun, and also allow you to directly compare your results with your friends, in games where this can be of interest (think of it as a modern day highscore system, only instead of having the highscore on the local arcade machine, you now have it on your regular games)
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AFnord: 200 goblins? No. But this? Yea sure.
Achievements are actually quite nice, when well implemented. They can highlight interesting challenges and things that are not needed to do, but can be fun, and also allow you to directly compare your results with your friends, in games where this can be of interest (think of it as a modern day highscore system, only instead of having the highscore on the local arcade machine, you now have it on your regular games)
I don't need shiny achievements to do those things in the original Deus Ex, I'll do them because they are fun to do. That said, I don't mind things like achievements existing as much as I am insulted by publishers thinking they can make me swallow anything as long as they give me shiny stuff to display. If I could still play without client and use cool stuff like mods and cheats at the expense of not having achievements and social features then I'd be fine with that. Just give the user a choice in the matter. That's what PC gaming has always been about, choice. You can have all the fancy effects if you have expensive hardware, or you choose to have less technical fidelity. You can choose that input device to use, a keyboard, a mouse, a joystick or a steering wheel. If you want to change your game you can mod it. Consequently, having the benefits and downsides of a client should be the user's choice to make.

Of course the reason it is not our choice is because the developers and publishers don't want us to have a choice, they want us to be forced to use those clients and their DRM.
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fortune_p_dawg: Exactly! Because heaven forbid one has to manually install a patch. The labor! The pain!
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SimonG: I never understood that argument.

Yes, I can clean my dishes. Yet, I have a dishwasher.

Yes, I can clean my own bathroom. Yet, I have a cleaning lady.

If I can reduce the hassle with a game, I do that. The only reason I buy games here is because it reduces the hassle of getting my discs to work.
I have a dishwasher but I don't use it. Feels like more hassle than just washing the dishes.

I find that there's a certain... something... lost when everything becomes automated. I get a "oh, don't worry about that, we'll do it for you, in fact the option to even do it yourself doesn't exist anymore because that's how little we trust you in your own skin day-to-day" vibe.

I'm not saying modern conveniences are bad, though I do feel as though they're a overworn and bit begrudgingly expectant.

Then again, I don't consider myself a the kind of person that would call manually downloading & patching a game a "hassle." Maybe my day isn't full enough, or maybe I don't take on the rigors of modern society (I loathe social networking and think Rihanna and Chris Brown are proof that there is no god) like everyone else, so by nature I'm less stressed for time.

My day literally consists of work, gym, wife, patching every one of my games manually.
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fortune_p_dawg: Then again, I don't consider myself a the kind of person that would call manually downloading & patching a game a "hassle." Maybe my day isn't full enough, or maybe I don't take on the rigors of modern society (I loathe social networking and think Rihanna and Chris Brown are proof that there is no god) like everyone else, so by nature I'm less stressed for time.
Downloading and installing? Probably not.

But with a good client you can click on play and play the newest version of the game. No searching, no checking, no waiting. The point is not bothering to do that, but to simply know that whenever I click on play it is the newest version. I don't have to "cater" my game collection. Any game I have downloaded is always at the newest version without me checking anything.

Recently I retried Far Cry 2. What did I do? I simply clicked install and then play. No search for a disc, nor for patches, no nothing.

Not to mention the massive improvements for devs. You no longer need patches in individual installers. That hotfix ready? Bam, in the game. You don't need to wait until the other five problems are fixed that would warrant a proper patch.

If that saves me ten minutes each day, it was worth it.

Edit:

Actually, it is pretty simple. Why should I go for lesser service if this is available?
Post edited December 03, 2012 by SimonG
On Mac OS X almost every small indy app has auto-updating built into it. it checks from time to time if there is an update, then it asks the user what to do (install, skip, ask later) and if the user wants to install it then the app starts downloading the update while the user can still work. once the update is downloaded the user has to click the button to do the update, then the app quits and gets replaced by the newer version. There is even an open source framework called Sparkle for it:
http://sparkle.andymatuschak.org

If any small freeware hobbyist can build an automatic updater into their application, then I'm sure it can't be that hard to do for a AAA game company. Neverwinter Nights had an auto updater before Steam even existed.
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HiPhish: Those "needed" features are just there to sweeten the DRM. Oh sure, your game is now permanently tied to your account, but look at all these shiny achievements you can tack onto your e-Penis. I mean, why else would these systems exist? Did anyone ever say "man, I killed 200 goblins, I really whish I could let random strangers know that" before achievements existed?

EDIT: patching shouldn't be an issue, most games of this (the last?) gen have already had their last patch released.

EDIT 2: the real problem here is that so many companies have gotten into bed with Valve and other DRM companies that removing the proprietary client parts would either require work or leave the game crippled. That's the same reason why the not-so-Humble THQ Bundle has to use Steam.
You need to think outside your box. Modern consumers want a unified friends list. They want autopatching. They want acievements. They want easy to purchase and install DLC. They want frequent updates. They want a whole ton of other crap Steam provides. Also the developers want these features to be as easy to offer as possible and Steamworks is free for them and well tended.

You and I might prefer DRM free over that stuff but the vast majority do not. At some point you need to recognize you are pissing into the wind and move on.
Some want those things, others don't. We don't know how many Steam users really want Steam and how many of them just tolerate it. Personally I couldn't care less if publishers and developers gave us a choice. The fact that they don't just shows that they want Steam for the DRM, not for the user's convenience.
Vast majority of people don't give a shit about SOPA, ACTA, PIPA, etc. Vast majority of people don't care about invigilation and oppression as long as they have something to eat and can watch idol 768676868 in peace.

Vast majority of population consist of drooling morons.
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HiPhish: Some want those things, others don't. We don't know how many Steam users really want Steam and how many of them just tolerate it. Personally I couldn't care less if publishers and developers gave us a choice. The fact that they don't just shows that they want Steam for the DRM, not for the user's convenience.
We don't know how many developers want Steam and how many just tolerate it. Since it's pretty popular, if you're unknown and want to sell a game, Steam is a good bet. Which is why Greenlight is so popular.
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tajemniczybeton: Vast majority of people don't give a shit about SOPA, ACTA, PIPA, etc. Vast majority of people don't care about invigilation and oppression as long as they have something to eat and can watch idol 768676868 in peace.

Vast majority of population consist of drooling morons.
You don't sound like an elitist narcissist at ALL, bro.
Am I glad I never had that "everything new is shit" phase ...
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fortune_p_dawg: Then again, I don't consider myself a the kind of person that would call manually downloading & patching a game a "hassle." Maybe my day isn't full enough, or maybe I don't take on the rigors of modern society (I loathe social networking and think Rihanna and Chris Brown are proof that there is no god) like everyone else, so by nature I'm less stressed for time.
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SimonG: Downloading and installing? Probably not.

But with a good client you can click on play and play the newest version of the game. No searching, no checking, no waiting. The point is not bothering to do that, but to simply know that whenever I click on play it is the newest version. I don't have to "cater" my game collection. Any game I have downloaded is always at the newest version without me checking anything.

Recently I retried Far Cry 2. What did I do? I simply clicked install and then play. No search for a disc, nor for patches, no nothing.

Not to mention the massive improvements for devs. You no longer need patches in individual installers. That hotfix ready? Bam, in the game. You don't need to wait until the other five problems are fixed that would warrant a proper patch.

If that saves me ten minutes each day, it was worth it.

Edit:

Actually, it is pretty simple. Why should I go for lesser service if this is available?
I'm not discounting Steam at all; I like many things about it and am aware of its benefits. What's missing from Steam (at least for me) is the sense of tangibility, however fleeting, that GOG still does indeed provide. Yeah I know, it's 2012, get with the times, no one expects to actually own anything they spend money on these days. While, when I spend money on Steam, I feel as though I'm contributing to the success of a long term rental service; and that's cool if I can pick up a brand new title at 80% off the regular cost. GOG, Desura, and Humble get the vast majority of my gaming bucks though.

Again, I have no unwarranted dislike for Steam, especially since offline mode is now essentially on all the time (should've been like that years ago).
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tajemniczybeton: Vast majority of people don't give a shit about SOPA, ACTA, PIPA, etc. Vast majority of people don't care about invigilation and oppression as long as they have something to eat and can watch idol 768676868 in peace.

Vast majority of population consist of drooling morons.
That made me wince because it's fucking true.
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SimonG: Am I glad I never had that "everything new is shit" phase ...
No way! There's TONS of good stuff coming out these days.
Post edited December 03, 2012 by fortune_p_dawg
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fortune_p_dawg: Yeah I know, it's 2012, get with the times, no one expects to actually own anything they spend money on these days. While, when I spend money on Steam, I feel as though I'm contributing to the success of a long term rental service; and that's cool if I can pick up a brand new title at 80% off the regular cost. GOG, Desura, and Humble get the vast majority of my gaming bucks though.
Actually, we own more and have more rights than 20 years ago. I (and you) own all my/your Steam games. While (and it would be funny if it wasn't true) I don't own my money in the bank. Because we only have claims against banks, just as we only have claims against Steam. But it is much easier to pursue your Steam claim than going after your bank.

I can't understand why people have this "roll over and die" attitude of "I don't own my Steam games". Sure, times are getting more complicated. But I consider this a good thing. Especially as consumer rights have currently peaked at a level I personally consider on the border of being unhealthy (might be an EU thing, however). The thing is, rights need to be pursuit.
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tajemniczybeton: Vast majority of people don't give a shit about SOPA, ACTA, PIPA, etc. Vast majority of people don't care about invigilation and oppression as long as they have something to eat and can watch idol 768676868 in peace.

Vast majority of population consist of drooling morons.
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StingingVelvet: You don't sound like an elitist narcissist at ALL, bro.
I don't think he does.

See, it doesn't matter that some people like Steam, or I like GOG, or my brother likes Desura, or that the weird guy down the street ONLY buys from GamersGate... on an individual basis everything seems so varied because you can cut down to the nittiest of gritties. When viewing the populace as a collective whole though, it always seems people will hoover up anything you put on the plate in front of them, be it the finest entree on the planet, or a corn kernel studded turd log. I'd say we're ALL guilty of this though with certain things... sure, some people might be more discerning when it comes to the games they buy, or even the service they choose to buy from but that's because it's just one of those things for them.
Honestly I can see fear of a Steam like system on consoles but fearing DRM on the PC is the ultimate in a waste of time. No one can stop you from playing games you bought on the PC. If Steam ever collapses the games will still be playable, it's absurd to think they won't be.

Anyway, even if they're 20 year rentals they're worth the cash. Whatevs.