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General discussion (archive)New Xbox (742 posts)(742 posts)
(742 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 23, 2013
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cogadh: I would like to see your source for this. Considering how circumspect MS has been with their answers on this topic, I think you may be speculating a bit. Everything i have read and seen so far indicates that it is not as simple as you describe and that any kind of sharing, outside of using your own account on someone else's machine, requires you to pay some kind of fee, up to the full cost of a brand new game. Regardless of the sharing scheme, the fact is, there will definitely be a fee for used games and possibly rentals, a fee that at this time, goes to MS alone, not to the original devs or publishers.
I'm basing it on current Dev machines with the current OS for the rest about fee's i quote Larry Hyb
We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One and wanted to provide a bit of clarification on exactly what we’ve confirmed today. While there have been many potential scenarios discussed, today we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail.

Beyond that, we have not confirmed any specific scenarios.
Fee's are not confirmed nor is where they go if they do exist
Posted May 23, 2013
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cogadh: I would like to see your source for this. Considering how circumspect MS has been with their answers on this topic, I think you may be speculating a bit. Everything i have read and seen so far indicates that it is not as simple as you describe and that any kind of sharing, outside of using your own account on someone else's machine, requires you to pay some kind of fee, up to the full cost of a brand new game. Regardless of the sharing scheme, the fact is, there will definitely be a fee for used games and possibly rentals, a fee that at this time, goes to MS alone, not to the original devs or publishers.
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wodmarach: I'm basing it on current Dev machines with the current OS for the rest about fee's i quote Larry Hyb

We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One and wanted to provide a bit of clarification on exactly what we’ve confirmed today. While there have been many potential scenarios discussed, today we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail.

Beyond that, we have not confirmed any specific scenarios.
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wodmarach: Fee's are not confirmed nor is where they go if they do exist
I thought you might be basing it on that. That quote directly contradicts what other execs at MS (specificaly Phil Harrison) have said and was only released in reaction to the public backlash. You are extrapolating from that quote a system that not only has not been confirmed, but likely does not exist in any way. The only thing that is confirmed, despite Larry's claim to the contrary, is that there is a fee associated with used games and shared games. How much that fee is depends on the game and circumstances.

Sources:
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/05/xbox-one-analysis/
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play
https://twitter.com/Espio1/status/336998311452098562
Posted May 23, 2013
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wodmarach: MS made it clear before the reveal this was a reveal of the entertainment side of the xbox (how reporters didn't notice the whole "New world of ENTERTAINMENT" section of the invite beats me... E3 is the game announcements etc gamers are waiting on
I don't know about anyone else but I play games for entertainment, if a game isn't entertaining I tend not to play it.

So there it is folks, according to MS games aren't entertainment, I guess their partnership with EA makes sense now at least.
Posted May 23, 2013
I will NEVER buy this console, even for 10 €.
Always online, no used games...Microsoft just lost next gen war.
A note: no online passes with EA games? Yes, if you must bind your game to your account, there's no need for an nline pass.
And that "fee" you will pay for a "used" game is, basically, an online pass.
So EVERY games on XBox will have an online pass.
Post edited May 23, 2013 by Big_Boss
Posted May 23, 2013
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SpooferJahk: Yeah... Microsoft is the other company on the list that is pushing me further into being a PC exclusive gamer this generation.
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timppu: At the same time they are trying to push you to become an XBox gamer in Windows 8, with their adverts for XBox games that you see inside Windows 8, or branding some gaming-related apps in Windows 8 with "XBox" etc.

Maybe their idea then really was after all that only mobile app-type games would be played on "PCs" (or rather, Windows tablets/smartphones), and for Real Gaming you should use their XBox consoles.
I understand that though I will still be running Windows 7 on any new machine I get in the near future. As long as it is still supported it will be my main operating system of choice.
Posted May 23, 2013
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cogadh: I thought you might be basing it on that. That quote directly contradicts what other execs at MS (specificaly Phil Harrison) have said and was only released in reaction to the public backlash. You are extrapolating from that quote a system that not only has not been confirmed, but likely does not exist in any way. The only thing that is confirmed, despite Larry's claim to the contrary, is that there is a fee associated with used games and shared games. How much that fee is depends on the game and circumstances.

Sources:
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/05/xbox-one-analysis/
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play
https://twitter.com/Espio1/status/336998311452098562
from your sources

which would then mean that the new account would also own the game and could play it without the disc.
They are all using the same damn quote! every single link is the same quote! NONE of them show evidence of used game fee's just extra copy fees...


Seriously read them all properly (the quotes i mean) NOWHERE do they currently talk about used copies all they talk about is if someone wants to buy a copy they can. Basicly all they are doing is confirming day 1 digital sales.
Post edited May 23, 2013 by wodmarach
Posted May 23, 2013
This is all pretty silly. Why couldn't they have just done a simple Steam-like system and had a permanent offline mode? That would have eliminated a ton of criticism and yet still provided them with solid DRM to allow for installations.

Tech stuff aside though they have just botched the whole thing PR wise anyway. Not having their ducks in a row at all is showing, which is sad considering the lead-in time they had. MS just can't get their shit together at all lately, kind of sad to watch as I used to defend them against the hordes of angry elitists.

Still, I bet they have a huge leg-up no matter how bad they screw up since people will want to keep using their current 360 profiles for next-gen games.
Posted May 23, 2013
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StingingVelvet: This is all pretty silly. Why couldn't they have just done a simple Steam-like system and had a permanent offline mode? That would have eliminated a ton of criticism and yet still provided them with solid DRM to allow for installations.
Cause then gamers would bitch about losing trade-ins....
Posted May 23, 2013
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cogadh: 7. Actually the PS3 became the most used device in the US for watching Netflix, but that doesn't mean anyone bought a PS3 just to watch Netflix. The PS2 was the most popular DVD player in the US for a while too, but again, most people didn't buy it just to watch DVDs. Game consoles are bought to play games, anything else they can do is just a side benefit.
It's hard to say. I can't comment on U.S. market but here its main selling point was that it was the cheapest Blu-Ray player available. My friend worked in a store chain similar to Walmart and almost everyone bought it there for this purpose, also because they pointed it out as an option to Blu-Ray buyers.
Posted May 23, 2013
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cogadh: I thought you might be basing it on that. That quote directly contradicts what other execs at MS (specificaly Phil Harrison) have said and was only released in reaction to the public backlash. You are extrapolating from that quote a system that not only has not been confirmed, but likely does not exist in any way. The only thing that is confirmed, despite Larry's claim to the contrary, is that there is a fee associated with used games and shared games. How much that fee is depends on the game and circumstances.

Sources:
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/05/xbox-one-analysis/
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play
https://twitter.com/Espio1/status/336998311452098562
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wodmarach: from your sources

which would then mean that the new account would also own the game and could play it without the disc.
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wodmarach: They are all using the same damn quote! every single link is the same quote! NONE of them show evidence of used game fee's just extra copy fees...
Are you listening to yourself? "Extra copy fee" = used game fee. How is MS supposed to know whether the game you are trying to install came via a friend loaning it to you or through a used game purchase? They already explained that the unique identifiers on games are generated when you install them and associate them with your account, so they are not part of the disk itself. They have no way of differentiating between loans and used purchases meaning that "extra copy fee" is a universal fee, regardless of how you got the game.

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cogadh: 7. Actually the PS3 became the most used device in the US for watching Netflix, but that doesn't mean anyone bought a PS3 just to watch Netflix. The PS2 was the most popular DVD player in the US for a while too, but again, most people didn't buy it just to watch DVDs. Game consoles are bought to play games, anything else they can do is just a side benefit.
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Mivas: It's hard to say. I can't comment on U.S. market but here its main selling point was that it was the cheapest Blu-Ray player available. My friend worked in a store chain similar to Walmart and almost everyone bought it there for this purpose, also because they pointed it out as an option to Blu-Ray buyers.
Wow, a $600 game console was the cheapest bluray player available? I'm not familiar with the Czech market, but here in the US, bluray players were only a third of the cost of a new PS3. Since the price of the PS3 dropped, it's still not the cheapest, but no longer is it one of the most expensive either.
Post edited May 23, 2013 by cogadh
Posted May 23, 2013
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wodmarach: Cause then gamers would bitch about losing trade-ins....
They'd get over it if it were handled right by PR, which Steam proves. The machine needing online checks is a step too far though, IMO.
Posted May 23, 2013
Has this been posted yet?

"Trademark suggests limit will be placed on number of viewers for content."

"A filing application with the United States Patents and Trademarks Office from Microsoft has revealed the company plans to deliver content to Xbox One owners on a 'per-user-view' basis and if the number of views is exceeded action - though it's not exactly clear what - will be taken against the system's owner.

According to the application Microsoft intends to create "A content presentation system and method allowing content providers to regulate the presentation of content on a per-user-view basis. Content is distributed an associated license option on the number of individual consumers or viewers allowed to consume the content.

"Consumers are presented with a content selection and a choice of licenses allowing consumption of the content. The users consuming the content on a display device are monitored so that if the user-views licensed is exceeded, remedial action may be taken."

Based on the description of the technology developed for the patent it seems likely Microsoft will use the Kinect sensor, which is mandatory with Xbox One, to monitor the number of people present while watching a TV show, movie or music on the device. Presumably, should the content be consumed by too many people Xbox One owners will need to pay again. "

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/14887/article/microsoft-trademarks-new-per-view-content-system-for-xbox-one/
Posted May 23, 2013
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spindown: Has this been posted yet?
It has been, a couple of months ago. Did any service say it will use it yet, or is it just another filed patent that will never be used?
Posted May 23, 2013
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spindown: Has this been posted yet?

"Trademark suggests limit will be placed on number of viewers for content."

"A filing application with the United States Patents and Trademarks Office from Microsoft has revealed the company plans to deliver content to Xbox One owners on a 'per-user-view' basis and if the number of views is exceeded action - though it's not exactly clear what - will be taken against the system's owner.

According to the application Microsoft intends to create "A content presentation system and method allowing content providers to regulate the presentation of content on a per-user-view basis. Content is distributed an associated license option on the number of individual consumers or viewers allowed to consume the content.

"Consumers are presented with a content selection and a choice of licenses allowing consumption of the content. The users consuming the content on a display device are monitored so that if the user-views licensed is exceeded, remedial action may be taken."

Based on the description of the technology developed for the patent it seems likely Microsoft will use the Kinect sensor, which is mandatory with Xbox One, to monitor the number of people present while watching a TV show, movie or music on the device. Presumably, should the content be consumed by too many people Xbox One owners will need to pay again. "

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/14887/article/microsoft-trademarks-new-per-view-content-system-for-xbox-one/
As much as I would love to rant against MS about this, it's just a patent. Companies like MS patent ideas like this just in case someone else also thinks of it. They have no real intention of using the patent, but if someone else decides to try something like this, now they can license it. Until this is something that is actually observed in the Xbone, or if MS actually gets honest about something for a change and openly admits to this, I wouldn't put too much stock in it.
Posted May 23, 2013
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spindown: Has this been posted yet?
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JMich: It has been, a couple of months ago. Did any service say it will use it yet, or is it just another filed patent that will never be used?
As far as I can tell, it's only a patent application so far. I really do hope that it will never be used.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)New Xbox (742 posts)(742 posts)
(742 posts)