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rrr8891: testicular cancer.
Man, don't even joke. Some years back I had a scare. Turned out it was something called hydro-cele, though, which is basically a burst plumbing issue. Got it repaired expertly and expediently.My equipment works fine and all I have to show for it is a cool pirate-scar on my nutsack. Which is GREAT to show off at parties.
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pics or gtfo
I enjoyed her video to an extent. It showed me an aspect of games that's somewhat obvious (when it comes to action games) but put her finger on specific tropes. Since I don't play that much I found it interesting. I also agree that the game writers tend to fall on tropes, especially in low plot games such as action ones. I'm sure that puts some women off, and I'm sure it also puts some men off.

Obviously some gamers do have this attitude. I remember the comment about a female PC in Torment, and that really boggled my mind.

It's the feminist part of the video that I don't like.

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BlueMooner: She also goes on to mention the very real problem of domestic violence. While I don't think she made a strong enough case connecting video female subjugation with real-world oppression of women, I think it ludicrous to suggest that she's making "mountains out of molehills" as one poster said, and that there isn't anything wrong going on at all.
That's where our opinion differs. In a world where female violence against men is common but ignored or accepted (read for example) I think it's silly to link attitudes to video games depiction.
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This is a Good For instance!

http://henrymakow.com/002015.html
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stika: When discussing women's issues, you're automatically discussing men's issues as well, whether you realize it, or not. Sexism is a societal issue, you cannot discuss one without the other, they are intrinsically connected.

Can you even discuss sexism without mentioning "men" (whether directly or indirectly)? Because, again, using the medicine example someone else provided, i can very easily discuss Cancer, Flu or Aids, without discussing Cholera, Antrax or Malaria
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HMDK: I'd like to hear what specific mens issues you care about.
I assume you mean in games as we are talking about games.

I'd argue the mere concept of calling games a "power fantasy" as a derogatory name is itself a flawed concept as all videogames were created as such.

the most common associated issue is that men are often represented as meat heads whose sole response to everything is violence (ironically, she did mention this in her video, so kudos to her on that.)
I'd also argue that I've learned that I have yet to see a western developed.

The same can go to men being hypersexualized, Bishonen Japanese games are a good example (Final Fantasy 12, or most JRPGs these days anyone?)

Or how about the fact most male NPCs in shooters are completely unimportant? Meet a male NPC in Gears and I will guarantee you that he will die soon and rather unceremoniously. Moreover what is the ratio of male enemies you kill to female enemies?

You could argue these issues are smaller or not as prevalent, to which I'd agree, but when discussing sexism I don't believe in choosing one gender over the other (see what I did there?). Moreover, you could also argue that some of these reasons are connected to the way games portray women, which again, I agree, which is why I feel she should address BOTH genders, not just one, in my opinion, she's basically addressing the symptoms, not the cause.
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stika: I'd argue the mere concept of calling games a "power fantasy" as a derogatory name is itself a flawed concept as all videogames were created as such.
What was the "Power Fantasy" of PacMan, Pong, Tetris, Arkanoid, Chess, Battleship? Or am I missing something?
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stika: I'd argue the mere concept of calling games a "power fantasy" as a derogatory name is itself a flawed concept as all videogames were created as such.
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JMich: What was the "Power Fantasy" of PacMan, Pong, Tetris, Arkanoid, Chess, Battleship? Or am I missing something?
Chess and battleship? You're a military commander

Pac-man? You're eating ghosts

Arkanoid? You mean the game in which you pilot a ship and fight aliens? (yes, I'm serious, look it up)

Pong and Tetris are exceptions, so I'll give you those two, though if you have to resort to games that don't even feature human beings to prove a point, I'd say you're actually helping my argument
Post edited May 29, 2013 by stika
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JMich: What was the "Power Fantasy" of PacMan, Pong, Tetris, Arkanoid, Chess, Battleship? Or am I missing something?
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stika: Chess and battleship? You're a military commander

Pac-man? You're eating ghosts

Arkanoid? You mean the game in which you pilot a ship and fight aliens?

Pong and Tetris are exceptions, so I'll give you those two
In Pac-Man you are not eating ghosts, the ghosts chase you. You are allowed to reverse the roles for a small amount of time under very specific conditions. So in essence, you are running away from something you can't fight. Power Fantasy, right.
Arkanoid is the early Breakout, where you control a paddle and break bricks with a ball. No aliens (except the final stage, 32 if I recall correctly).
Pong was one of the earliest videogames, thus the "all videogames were created as such" is already debunked.
Chess and Battleship are the video adaptations of the board games, so I'll give you those two as "Power Fantasy" games, or training tools, depending on how you want to see them.
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JMich: In Pac-Man you are not eating ghosts, the ghosts chase you. You are allowed to reverse the roles for a small amount of time under very specific conditions. So in essence, you are running away from something you can't fight. Power Fantasy, right.
Yes, power Fantasy. Just because you're playing a suvival horror game doesn't mean it's not a power fantasy

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JMich: Arkanoid is the early Breakout, where you control a paddle and break bricks with a ball. No aliens (except the final stage, 32 if I recall correctly).
Your "paddle" is a space ship and the bricks are the space barrier (look it up)
Ah breakout, the game in which you're a prisoner trying to escape your cell (again, look it up)

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JMich: Pong was one of the earliest videogames, thus the "all videogames were created as such" is already debunked.
Chess and Battleship are the video adaptations of the board games, so I'll give you those two as "Power Fantasy" games, or training tools, depending on how you want to see them.
I find it amusing you have to resort to game that don't even feature anything resembling human beings and even THEN you're coming up short on examples (and some of the ones you gave me you've already conceded). Honestly, it sounds like you're only helping my argument
Post edited May 29, 2013 by stika
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langurmonkey: A part of a game where there is violence against a woman or a part of a game where a woman is helpless is just simply a part of the story.
The point she makes in her video, which you also appear to have missed, is not about a single instance where a female gets treated badly. There's nothing wrong when ONE story just happens to have a women getting screwed over. When it happens all the time in every game though, then it becomes a problem. When the portrayals are so often one-sided with women always being weak, never being strong, always being victims, never being heroes, then you have a systemic problem. The point she makes is that the portrayals of females as weak victims far outnumber the portrayals of them as competent saviors. That's a problem.

The issue isn't about any single portrayal. As she mentions, you can probably find justifications in a game for a particular situation. It's about how these portrayals of women come up over and over and over and over in video games across the industry. It's the widescale pervasiveness of the problem that she's addressing.

Why do you play games Langur? Is it because you like feeling badass? To feel more powerful then other NPCs in the game? To accomplish tasks nobody else can do? Women gamers play for the same reasons. How do you think they feel then when, instead of pwning the game and everybody in it, somebody else wins the day instead?

How do you think they feel when they are shoved aside so a male can beat the BBEG? Do you like playing games where the game itself makes you weak and helpless, and does so because of your gender? How can you feel leet and pwn, when the game itself tells you you're weak, stupid and incompetent, so let's hurry up and get someone ELSE in here to fix things?

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langurmonkey: For example, in the game Mafia II, several times, you have to rescue helpless male characters. And if you believe there isn't 10000x more violence towards male characters in games, you haven't played a lot of games.
I haven't played Mafia, so I can't comment. The point about the violence is not about COMPETENT women suffering violence. It's about helpless women suffering violence. She has no problem with women warriors being killed or cut down. Watch 10:40 - 11:10. The men you kill a zillion times in games are always COMPETENT male warriors. How often do you fight helpless, crying males who just lie on the ground, with no weapons, never attacking, while you cut them down?
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rrr8891: pics or gtfo
You want pictures of my scarred sack? Uh, while I applaud your bravery to discuss your strange fetish openly, I'm gonna decline on that. Well, at least until I get a camera that will actually interact properly with this shitheap of a computer. But I'm sure if you turn safe mode off and do a Google image search, you should find plenty of scartissue-porn.
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fr33kSh0w2012: This is a Good For instance!

http://henrymakow.com/002015.html
"Illuminati Jewish bankers control most major corporations and use advertising for social engineering: to neuter the goyim herd "

Well, that was the funniest thing I have read today. It is like someone used a random conspiracy generator. Thanks. :)
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rrr8891: pics or gtfo
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HMDK: You want pictures of my scarred sack? Uh, while I applaud your bravery to discuss your strange fetish openly, I'm gonna decline on that. Well, at least until I get a camera that will actually interact properly with this shitheap of a computer. But I'm sure if you turn safe mode off and do a Google image search, you should find plenty of scartissue-porn.
I would argue that some movies might actually makes jokes about Testicular cancer.

Hell, I've seen a movie that had male Prison rape as a long-running gag.
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HMDK: You want pictures of my scarred sack? Uh, while I applaud your bravery to discuss your strange fetish openly, I'm gonna decline on that. Well, at least until I get a camera that will actually interact properly with this shitheap of a computer. But I'm sure if you turn safe mode off and do a Google image search, you should find plenty of scartissue-porn.
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stika: I would argue that some movies might actually makes jokes about Testicular cancer.

Hell, I've seen a movie that had male Prison rape as a long-running gag.
Well, well, well. We've accidentally stumbled onto something we agree on.
Male prison rape is one of the most abominable things, and it's always played for laughs in tv-shows and movies. It's like "Heh, he's a criminal so he deserves extra punishment in pounded-in-the-ass prison!". It's so disgusting and obnoxious.
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stika: I find it amusing you have to resort to game that don't even feature anything resembling human beings and even THEN you're coming up short on examples (and some of the ones you gave me you've already conceded). Honestly, it sounds like you're only helping my argument
Thank you for this. So, what time period do you wish to look at the games that came out? Do you wish for the first motion controlled game? Abstract lights (Pantomation, 1977, look it up). Do you wish to see when pong was first introduced, as the grandfather of videogames? 1958, Tennis for Two (again, look it up). Is there an earlier example you wish me to look for, or are video games not created as power fantasy (unless you count the creator as realizing his power fantasy by creating something, in which case most of the inventions can be classified as that).