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General discussion (archive)New Tropes Versus Women Video!(803 posts)(803 posts)
(803 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 29, 2013
To be quite honest, if I don't like a games content, I just don't play it. Simple as that.
Post edited May 29, 2013 by darthvader39560
Posted May 29, 2013
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darthvader39560: To be quite honest, if I don't like a games content, I just don't play it. Simple as that.
Fair enough, but closing your eyes doesn't make the issues go away.
Posted May 29, 2013
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JMich: Which means that swapping the genders of the 2 protagonists shouldn't make any difference to the plot. Sure, it would mean double work for voice artists and animations etc, but for the plot part it's the same. Either of them should have the same difficulty convincing someone that he is the royal heir, and both proofs should be believed with the same ease/difficulty.
On the other hand, having Alexander trying to prove he's the royal princess would be fun, though I think it has happened before, hasn't it?
But I think within the context of it's setting, which is based on fairy tales that borrow gender roles from the middle ages, the women are treated differently. You can sneak into the castle dressed as a woman because all the cleaning maids are women. Even Cassima is only being used by the Vizier for her ties to the throne. The people with any authority are men. I think if you just swapped Alexander and Cassima, she would have a harder time, but it would be in order to portray that particular setting. It's nothing against women in general. Its detached from that.

I hope she makes an example of Kings Quest VI in her next video, along with Monkey island.

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JMich: And that is the point of those videos. We know that some depictions aren't the best depictions we should have. But we do let them slide. Do you recall the old australian commercial for the Toyota Hilux? Are all australians farmers who say "buggah" all the time? Or is that a stereotype that we can let slide because it's fiction?

The point of these videos isn't a "Look at how awful you people are!", it's more a "This is what we consider normal, but is it? Should we let it slide or should we do something about it?". Take a look at the Rosie and Brosie incident for Hawken for a different example.

P.S. Still haven't watched the video, so the above are from my impressions of the first one.
Australians happily create and promote their own stereotypes about themselves. The government enjoys Australian "mateship" Uggghhh I hate it all :D

The video is just like the other one in the series. One of the problems I have with the game videos is the constant use of Japanese games as examples not just 'cause I've never even heard of half of them, It's that Japanese media (in my experience) is in general, rather, shall we say "insensitive". Its easy pickings really. And the fact most her arguments apply to media in general and not just games.

I'd also be interested in what kind of game she would design if she had the chance.
Posted May 29, 2013
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keeveek: Yeah, it's like saying "you make a fundraiser for kids with leukemia? What about other cancers, you scum? What about them?! Why don't you raise money for other people too?! You motherfuckers !!!!"

makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.
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stika: Non-sequitur much?
Do you even know what non-sequitur MEANS? When people are talking about womens issues and you bring up mens issues instead... that's kinda the same thing.
Posted May 29, 2013
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stika: Non-sequitur much?
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HMDK: Do you even know what non-sequitur MEANS? When people are talking about womens issues and you bring up mens issues instead... that's kinda the same thing.
So you're saying when discussing sexism, Men's issues shouldn't be discussed? Because last time I checked, they're both two sides of the same coin.

Whereas Cancer and Aids are completely unrelated, one does not affect the other
Posted May 29, 2013
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Wanna hear a funny joke? Women's rights.
Posted May 29, 2013
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darthvader39560: To be quite honest, if I don't like a games content, I just don't play it. Simple as that.
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keeveek: Fair enough, but closing your eyes doesn't make the issues go away.
Thats true. I guess she is just fighting for what she believes is right. And that I can respect.
Posted May 29, 2013
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HMDK: Do you even know what non-sequitur MEANS? When people are talking about womens issues and you bring up mens issues instead... that's kinda the same thing.
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stika: So you're saying when discussing sexism, Men's issues shouldn't be discussed? Because last time I checked, they're both two sides of the same coin.

Whereas Cancer and Aids are completely unrelated, one does not affect the other
No, I'm saying that when discussing womens issues, let's discuss them. And when we're discussing mens issues, let's discuss them. And if you want a third discussion on how they connect, let's have that. But don't go barging into an ongoing discussion and claim right of focus. It's not just stupid, but pretty fuckin' rude.
Posted May 29, 2013
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What gets easier to pick up the heavier it gets? A woman.
Posted May 29, 2013
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stika: So you're saying when discussing sexism, Men's issues shouldn't be discussed? Because last time I checked, they're both two sides of the same coin.

Whereas Cancer and Aids are completely unrelated, one does not affect the other
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HMDK: No, I'm saying that when discussing womens issues, let's discuss them. And when we're discussing mens issues, let's discuss them. And if you want a third discussion on how they connect, let's have that. But don't go barging into an ongoing discussion and claim right of focus. It's not just stupid, but pretty fuckin' rude.
When discussing women's issues, you're automatically discussing men's issues as well, whether you realize it, or not. Sexism is a societal issue, you cannot discuss one without the other, they are intrinsically connected.

Can you even discuss sexism without mentioning "men" (whether directly or indirectly)? Because, again, using the medicine example someone else provided, i can very easily discuss Cancer, Flu or Aids, without discussing Cholera, Antrax or Malaria
Post edited May 29, 2013 by stika
Posted May 29, 2013
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Starmaker: Male antagonist = dudebro power. Female antagonist = sneaky duplicitous bitch is being sneaky and duplicitous and should be punished.
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keeveek: So it makes revolver Ocelot a female then.

male antagonists are just as often presented as sneaky motherfuckers as female ones.

Also, if you counted how many men are transformed into demons, you'd make a conclusion it promotes violence against men?

In fact, in every shooter game you kill like a 1,000 of male characters. That would mean games are anti-men than anything else. Especially when thousands of male characters you slaughter are brainless and nameless mass, and when you happen to fight a woman, it's always a character of some traits and significances rather than anonymous mass of men being killed on the way.

By the way, if someone turns into a 3 headed demon that breaths fire and everything, it shouldn't be counted as a man or woman in my book.
1. No, duh.
2-3. Yes. But when a man is being treacherous, it doesn't reflect on all men. When a woman is being treacherous, it does.
4. Yes. And that is a problem. I want more women mooks to kill. Not succubi or spider-women, just regular mooks.
To illustrate: basically the only sort of TV series being made and shown in Russia are about cops and gang wars. Cops are men. Gangsters are men. Women are:
bodies,
homemakers (stoic virtuous wife of a cop who bravely not sees her husband for days, or evil bitch wife of a cop who divorces him over him spending all the time at work),
feminist businesswomen who have messed with Manly Matters and are now in deep shit because of it,
masterminds behind one specific crime, pretending to be an innocent and sexually virtuous bystander.
One - a comedic dudebro series - had the protagonist nominally answer to a woman superior, whom he also banged. But that's it.

A typical scene: a criminal boss is threatening to gouge out a boy's eyes with a knife. The kid is absolutely not frightened, answers calmly, does not betray anyone - a real hero. Scene change: "BAWWW MY SON HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BAAAWWW I'M GOING TO SLIT MY WRISTS AND BE NONFUNCTIONAL AND SHIT BAAAWWWWW".

Fuck that noise.

5. No, if a three-headed genderless demon turns into a creature that is perceived to resemble a human female much more than a human male, it's a woman for the purpose of gender representation in media.
Posted May 29, 2013
low rated
fascinating!
Attachments:
24156398.jpg (90 Kb)
Posted May 29, 2013
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HMDK: No, I'm saying that when discussing womens issues, let's discuss them. And when we're discussing mens issues, let's discuss them. And if you want a third discussion on how they connect, let's have that. But don't go barging into an ongoing discussion and claim right of focus. It's not just stupid, but pretty fuckin' rude.
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stika: When discussing women's issues, you're automatically discussing men's issues as well, whether you realize it, or not. Sexism is a societal issue, you cannot discuss one without the other, they are intrinsically connected.

Can you even discuss sexism without mentioning "men" (whether directly or indirectly)? Because, again, using the medicine example someone else provided, i can very easily discuss Cancer, Flu or Aids, without discussing Cholera, Antrax or Malaria
I'd like to hear what specific mens issues you care about.
Posted May 29, 2013
low rated
testicular cancer.
Posted May 29, 2013
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Starmaker: 4. Yes. And that is a problem. I want more women mooks to kill. Not succubi or spider-women, just regular mooks.
To illustrate: basically the only sort of TV series being made and shown in Russia are about cops and gang wars. Cops are men. Gangsters are men. Women are:
bodies,
homemakers (stoic virtuous wife of a cop who bravely not sees her husband for days, or evil bitch wife of a cop who divorces him over him spending all the time at work),
feminist businesswomen who have messed with Manly Matters and are now in deep shit because of it,
masterminds behind one specific crime, pretending to be an innocent and sexually virtuous bystander.
One - a comedic dudebro series - had the protagonist nominally answer to a woman superior, whom he also banged. But that's it.

A typical scene: a criminal boss is threatening to gouge out a boy's eyes with a knife. The kid is absolutely not frightened, answers calmly, does not betray anyone - a real hero. Scene change: "BAWWW MY SON HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BAAAWWW I'M GOING TO SLIT MY WRISTS AND BE NONFUNCTIONAL AND SHIT BAAAWWWWW".

Fuck that noise.
Like it or not, this is how typically a crime family look like. One of my favourite shows, The Sopranos, shows almost every woman in the show as a housewive. You can't say this show is mysoginistic or sexist, because it shows the world of the mob families is sexist and mysoginistic. If anything, it greatly depicts how women are treated by those men, and it's not the writer's fault.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)New Tropes Versus Women Video!(803 posts)(803 posts)
(803 posts)