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Alfie3000: I meant that Alexander constantly has to prove who he is. It's not exactly plain sailing for him. I don't think Cassima would be believed either especially as its an adventure game and if the main storyline is saving someone, saving them straight away doesn't make for a very long game.
Which means that swapping the genders of the 2 protagonists shouldn't make any difference to the plot. Sure, it would mean double work for voice artists and animations etc, but for the plot part it's the same. Either of them should have the same difficulty convincing someone that he is the royal heir, and both proofs should be believed with the same ease/difficulty.
On the other hand, having Alexander trying to prove he's the royal princess would be fun, though I think it has happened before, hasn't it?

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Alfie3000: In the world of Kings Quest VI there is also inequality. Is it right? no. But it is fiction.
And that is the point of those videos. We know that some depictions aren't the best depictions we should have. But we do let them slide. Do you recall the old australian commercial for the Toyota Hilux? Are all australians farmers who say "buggah" all the time? Or is that a stereotype that we can let slide because it's fiction?

The point of these videos isn't a "Look at how awful you people are!", it's more a "This is what we consider normal, but is it? Should we let it slide or should we do something about it?". Take a look at the Rosie and Brosie incident for Hawken for a different example.

P.S. Still haven't watched the video, so the above are from my impressions of the first one.
Anita Sarkessian, you say? I know that name...


Interesting two-parter about her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI

Interesting view on her and feminism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lERF9q40iS0

A response to her 'first' Tropes video, which I particularly enjoyed as the maker did it without raising $160,000:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek

And... I'm not overly struck on bits of his presentation, I admit, but he does raise some valid points:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mZgTgublaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxWwPZI_4RQ
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Crassmaster: If you don't want me pointing out when you are absolutely lying, stop doing it.

You are absolutely entitled to feel differently about a topic. That doesn't mean you get to spew massive hyperbole, direction less generalization and blatant falsehoods without getting called on it.

You really have issues with taking personal responsibility for things, don't you?
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fr33kSh0w2012: Eh? Go and Take your Medications Canuck I am not Lying you got me confused with someone else what do you mean Hyperbole, direction less generalization and blatant falsehoods you must be seriously Mentally deranged or retarded or something I don't know where you got that shit from what are they feeding you? to many GMO's I'm guessing!
You truly are just a pitiful little nothing, aren't you? Oh look at you getting all big and blustery, desperately trying to convince yourself and everyone else that you merit...well...anything, really. You aren't convincing anyone.

To type out some of the over-the-top drivel that you have and then claim that you don't know what I'm talking about when I mention your hyperbolic, lying ramblings proves you are either :

-Pitifully incapable of seeing fault with your own actions
-So unable to actually debate that you actually consider these sad displays arguments
-Dumb

But just keep blaming everyone else for everything if it makes you feel better. And keep up the insane nonsense...it's amusing.
Very nice video, although I don't fully understand that "beating the shit out of a demon who wants to kill you and happened to be your girlfriend" glorifies the violence against women.

If my girlfriend turned into a fucking demon, I wouldn't think twice :P

By the way, there are at least the same amounts of games where you have to kill your brother/friend/father , imho.


and damn those spoilers! :P
Post edited May 29, 2013 by keeveek
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keeveek: Very nice video, although I don't fully understand that "beating the shit out of a demon who wants to kill you and happened to be your girlfriend" glorifies the violence against women.

If my girlfriend turned into a fucking demon, I wouldn't think twice :P

By the way, there are at least the same amounts of games where you have to kill your brother/friend/father , imho.

and damn those spoilers! :P
Yeah, that part seemed like a stretch to me as well. Not much of a decision to be made, really.

"Oh, you're a demonic beast attempting to rip me apart? Yeah...uhh....no." :)
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granny: Anita Sarkessian, you say? I know that name...

Interesting two-parter about her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI

Interesting view on her and feminism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lERF9q40iS0

A response to her 'first' Tropes video, which I particularly enjoyed as the maker did it without raising $160,000:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek

And... I'm not overly struck on bits of his presentation, I admit, but he does raise some valid points:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mZgTgublaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxWwPZI_4RQ
Hey thanks for the links!!

I've only watched a bit of the two parter about her and the response to her first Tropes video. The start of the one about her seems to be a pretty weak criticism of a college thesis. Anyone who has written or read a college thesis will know that they are really easy targets. I hope it gets a bit better than that as it goes on and actually deals with the comments on women and tropes in media.

The response video looks good, but I am going to need to watch it when I can give it full concentration. I find the sound or the voice a little difficult to follow. I am more interested in videos like this that might attack her views on tropes rather than videos that seem to attack her personally or nit pick on things that I don't care about.

Thanks again!
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fr33kSh0w2012: Eh? Go and Take your Medications Canuck I am not Lying you got me confused with someone else what do you mean Hyperbole, direction less generalization and blatant falsehoods you must be seriously Mentally deranged or retarded or something I don't know where you got that shit from what are they feeding you? to many GMO's I'm guessing!
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Crassmaster: You truly are just a pitiful little nothing, aren't you? Oh look at you getting all big and blustery, desperately trying to convince yourself and everyone else that you merit...well...anything, really. You aren't convincing anyone.

To type out some of the over-the-top drivel that you have and then claim that you don't know what I'm talking about when I mention your hyperbolic, lying ramblings proves you are either :

-Pitifully incapable of seeing fault with your own actions
-So unable to actually debate that you actually consider these sad displays arguments
-Dumb

But just keep blaming everyone else for everything if it makes you feel better. And keep up the insane nonsense...it's amusing.
Eh? You are seriously Batshit Crazy if you saw that in my so called "Ramblings" Oh did you forget I have ASPERGER'S SYNDROME so I am quite Used to being attacked By Moronic sub humans Like yourself that consider yourselves normal! so speak for yourself blowhard!
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HijacK: I'm not going to bother with this kind of BS anymore. This subject gets way too much attention , a lot more than it ever deserved.
Maybe it continues to get attention because change never occurs? If a problem doesn't stop, why should people stop complaining? How do you determine what other people should complain about?

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HijacK: Truth is: It's only sexist when men do it. Whenever women do something sexist the media doesn't give a crap.
I don't mean to sound rude, but this comes across as incredibly ignorant of male/female conditions around the world. Do you HONESTLY think that men and women have, and had have, completely equal rights, opportunities and lives?? Do you really think that all things are equal, and that men are the ones suffering here?

Historically, have men been frequently raped? Have men been frequently beaten by their family, spouses, and even children? Have men been killed, even to this day, to preserve the honor of their family? Are there countries where men can't work, can't own anything, and can't even leave the house without permission from a woman? Have men been sold as property? Are men taken and used as sex slaves? Do men receive less pay and are told they should have a woman with them to deal with any important issue that occurs?

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HijacK: Not to even mention those kind of videos are usually made by frustrated , sexist women on life. This is a pretty much BS thing going on. They want to change gaming in their image , a retarded one.
So NOT wanting to be constantly portrayed as stupid, weak, incompetent, helpless, incapable, unskilled, immature and unrealistic people who's only purpose is to serve as the sexual property of men is "wanting to change gaming in their own image." Seriously?

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HijacK: Yes , because in their stupid views Liara T'Soni , Morrigan , Jade....and a ton of other strong female characters is not enough.
Because a thousand cases of weak women is COMPLETELY negated by a half dozen cases of strong women.

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HijacK: Dude , have you seen the campaigns they have against how people perceive women in gaming? You have to see the hate Lara Croft receives from them because she has big boobs.
Try this. Make a list of every single female you've ever seen in games. Count how many have huge breasts. Count how many have small breasts. Count how many are flat-chested.

Now make a list of every male you've seen in a game. Count how many have huge bulging dicks/crotches. Count how many have small bulges. Count how many have flat crotches.

Notice anything? Notice how the vast majority of women have huge breasts (and tight, skimpy, revealing outfits) while the vast majority of men have flat crotches (with thick, bulky body-concealing outfits)? It's because the women are being drawn to appeal to hetero men's tastes, while the men are being drawn to hetero men's tastes. All the characters are drawn to appeal to what hetero men want, with women being sexually objectified.

Women are objectified all the time in their lives, why would they want that in their games as well? Imagine if the only male avatar games ever had was a nearly naked male wearing only a pink thong that was tight around his dick and balls, showing every curve. Imagine if games had frequent cutscenes with close-ups of your crotch. Imagine if this was true for 99% of the games out there? Would you complain?
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Crassmaster: "Oh, you're a demonic beast attempting to rip me apart? Yeah...uhh....no." :)
Oh, I forgot to add - if my father or brother turned into a vampire or a demon, I would kill the fucker right where he stands.

Does that mean I promote violence against family members? :P
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Starmaker: Can anyone link, er, girl Link?
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Adzeth: http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/47724463171/inspired-by-anita-sarkeesians-video-game-tropes
This good enough?
Neat!
I meant this ; I'm on a tablet and have trouble linking stuff, pasted text gets inserted in a lolrandom place, breaking quotations and such.
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Crassmaster: You truly are just a pitiful little nothing, aren't you? Oh look at you getting all big and blustery, desperately trying to convince yourself and everyone else that you merit...well...anything, really. You aren't convincing anyone.

To type out some of the over-the-top drivel that you have and then claim that you don't know what I'm talking about when I mention your hyperbolic, lying ramblings proves you are either :

-Pitifully incapable of seeing fault with your own actions
-So unable to actually debate that you actually consider these sad displays arguments
-Dumb

But just keep blaming everyone else for everything if it makes you feel better. And keep up the insane nonsense...it's amusing.
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fr33kSh0w2012: Eh? You are seriously Batshit Crazy if you saw that in my so called "Ramblings" Oh did you forget I have ASPERGER'S SYNDROME so I am quite Used to being attacked By Moronic sub humans Like yourself that consider yourselves normal! so speak for yourself blowhard!
Oh that's right. You have Asperger's, so you're excused from needing honesty in arguments and it's totally okay for you to just blow up at anyone and everyone that so much as disagrees with you, right? Totally cool, then.

Good grief.

Also, I know that you have issues with women, but does that mean you have to avoid periods? Punctuation is your friend.

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Crassmaster: "Oh, you're a demonic beast attempting to rip me apart? Yeah...uhh....no." :)
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keeveek: Oh, I forgot to add - if my father or brother turned into a vampire or a demon, I would kill the fucker right where he stands.

Does that mean I promote violence against family members? :P
Absolutely! I don't care who it is, it's time to empty the damn gun! :)
Post edited May 29, 2013 by Crassmaster
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BlueMooner: Imagine if the only male avatar games ever had was a nearly naked male wearing only a pink thong that was tight around his dick and balls, showing every curve. Imagine if games had frequent cutscenes with close-ups of your crotch. Imagine if this was true for 99% of the games out there? Would you complain?
I'd probably be Like
Post edited May 29, 2013 by fr33kSh0w2012
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htown1980: I've only watched a bit of the two parter about her and the response to her first Tropes video. The start of the one about her seems to be a pretty weak criticism of a college thesis. Anyone who has written or read a college thesis will know that they are really easy targets. I hope it gets a bit better than that as it goes on and actually deals with the comments on women and tropes in media.
Everything needs a starting point, and her thesis is as good a place as any. Over the two parts, it does cover how she presents herself, how she manipulates situations to her advantage, and other general inconsistencies in her views. Not wholly related to games, but given she has apparently become the face of feminist gaming, I think they are, at the very least, interesting to take note of.

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htown1980: The response video looks good, but I am going to need to watch it when I can give it full concentration. I find the sound or the voice a little difficult to follow.
I thought the response was fantastic, and rather highlights Sarkessian's one-sided view point.

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htown1980: I am more interested in videos like this that might attack her views on tropes rather than videos that seem to attack her personally or nit pick on things that I don't care about.
Well... what is it you don't care about, specifically? From what I've seen, a lot of what Sarkessian presents is biased and one-sided, and it seems the best way to counter that is not so much to spend hours of ones life picking apart, in detail, everything she says, but rather to focus on her attitude and how she goes about business (as it were). If you plant the idea that someone might be talking nonsense, people might just start to do some critical thinking.

Although personal attacks, I agree, are not how you win an argument.
95% of college thesis are shitty and not worth anything.

by the way, this counter-video is amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek
Post edited May 29, 2013 by keeveek
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langurmonkey: Ok, I will go through the video again and find the parts for you.
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BlueMooner: I'm surprised, Langur, that you watched the video twice and still didn't catch that she isn't attacking devs as being maliciously anti-women. I also find it troubling that when somebody goes to the effort of researching evidence to support a claim about discrimination existant in society against them, you casually dismiss them as a "crazy feminist".

0:45 "...but please keep in mind that it's both possible, and even necessary, to simultaneously enjoy a piece of media while also being critical of its more problematic or pernicious aspects."

19:55 "Despite these troubling implications, game creators aren't necessarily all sitting around, twirling their nefarious looking mustaches while consciously trying to figure out how to best misrepresent women as part of some grand conspiracy. Most probably just haven't given much thought to the underlying messages their games are sending..."

She also goes on to mention the very real problem of domestic violence. While I don't think she made a strong enough case connecting video female subjugation with real-world oppression of women, I think it ludicrous to suggest that she's making "mountains out of molehills" as one poster said, and that there isn't anything wrong going on at all.

IF women were suffering in reality and IF media portrayals perpetually glorifying the victimization and dominance of women were augmenting it, how SHOULD people go about combatting that? Should they, perhaps, I dunno, try to gather evidence to support their assertions, as she has done? Or is that just whining? Should they present their case in a calm and reasoned manner, as she has done? Or is that just "crazy feminism"? Should she ask for financial support to better present her claim? Or is she just scamming?

I find some of the dismissive attitudes people have posted here to be rather self-centered. Here's a woman complaining about an issue that affects women, but since men don't suffer from it, it apparently either doesn't exist, isn't important, or she's just a whiny, lying, bitch.

I'm curious to know how the posters here feel a person SHOULD go about making a valid claim against the problem of chainmail bikini syndrome or DiD in a way that you would find legitimate. Or is that impossible, and you feel that nothing would convince you there's a problem with how women are portrayed?
So she spares the creators of the games she is using as examples. She still says some games are against women and that is BS. And I don't see how it isn't calm and reasonable to call her a crazy feminist considering she is one... And if you agree with her. That some of these games have content against women then you are just as crazy as her. Like I said earlier, I've have not encountered one single game that is against women. That tries to send to the message to everyone that women are inferior, that women should be the victim of violence etc. A part of a game where there is violence against a woman or a part of a game where a woman is helpless is just simply a part of the story. A lot of games don't even take place in our universe too. What if there is a universe out there where all women are helpless? And a game takes place in that universe. Is this game against women from Earth? Mountains out of molehills x10000...

PS
Everything she is talking about in PC and console games happens to male characters too. For example, in the game Mafia II, several times, you have to rescue helpless male characters. And if you believe there isn't 10000x more violence towards male characters in games, you haven't played a lot of games. So this is not a case of men not caring because it doesn't happen to them. This is a case of people except crazy feminists not caring.
Post edited May 29, 2013 by langurmonkey