If you have some black humor this song is great. It is about some crazy young Irishman who first joined the IRA and then "went away with the peace-keeping force cause he liked a bloody good fight of course"

The Pogues - Billy's Bones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLPGphHOE0Q

Billy ran around with the rare old crew
And he knew an Arsenal from Tottenham blue
We'd be a darn sight better of if we knew
Where Billy's bones are resting now
Billy saw a copper and he hit him in the knee
And he took him down from six foot to five foot three
Then he hit him fair and square in the do-re-mi
That copper won't be having any family

Hey Billy son where are you now
Don't you know that we need you now
With a ra-ta-ta and the old kow-tow
Where are Billy's bones resting now

Billy went away with the peace-keeping force
'Cause he liked a bloody good fight of course
Went away in an old khaki van to the banks of the river Jordan
Billy saw the Arabs and he had 'em on the run
When he got 'em in the range of his sub-machine gun
Then he had the Israelis in his sights, went a ra-ta-ta
And they ran like Shiites

Hey Billy son where are you now
Don't you know that we need you now
With a ra-ta-ta and the old kow-tow
Where are Billy's bones resting now

One night Billy had a rare old time,
Laughing and singing on the Lebanon line
Came back to camp not looking too pretty
Never even got to see the Holy City
Now Billy's out there in the desert sun
And his mother cries when the morning comes
And there's mothers crying all over this world
For their poor dead darling boys and girls

Hey Billy son where are you now
Don't you know that we need you now
With a ra-ta-ta and the old kow-tow
Where are Billy's bones resting now

Born on a Monday
Married on a Tuesday
Drunk on a Wednesday
Got plugged on a Thursday
Sick on a Friday
Died on a Saturday
Buried on a Sunday

I think there isn't a hostel between here and Beijing that doesn't have a copy of Risk ;-)
Fun fact:

Who was the country that was thought of as the "protector of Jews" and the best Guarantee for what Herzl hoped when he wrote "Der Judenstaat".

Yup, we were. Better times ...

lol people living in peace does not help run world economy, therefore some cunning bastard is always wiggling finger up someones ass

It has a millennia old core. Palestine today was the ancient home of the old Jewish people and is still considered the sacred home ever since they were driven from it two thousand years.

It is difficult to understand for a young country like the US what this means, but consider the war for independence. But not as a 7 year guerilla war, but a two thousand year old struggle. It is somewhat similar to Germany or Ireland in that there were always "people" but no state (or not anymore). Especially considering that Jews weren't exactly treated nicely wherever they went (Funny enough you could say, as a rule of the thumb, that they were treated better in Muslim or Arabic and Persian countries than in old Europe. At least until the Age of Enlightenment kicked in.) There the vision of a "homeland" were all Jews are safe and protected was one of the thoughts that kept the Jewish People going.

Therefore this whole Erez Israel thing is really, really, REALLY important for them.

This is also why some consider this an "ancient" conflict. But in the end, if you boil it down, it is still a struggle for power and influence in the region were especially the Palestinian population were often nothing more than pawns.

Personally, I always thought the sacred Jewish Homeland was Queens ...

In that case, money saved.

Society change, quite fast. For good and ill. Two of the most stupid proverbs commonly used must be "Nothing new under the sun." and "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

I would have never thought this thread would still be up on the first page after a few hours.

It's a very delicate subject some people may consider taboo, and I'm surprised to see it's approached in a very mature way by most of the posters at least.

While I have very strong feelings about the subject, It fills my hearts to see some of you lots interested in what's happening in the region. After all, "La terre est un village planétaire".

It is - for half the year. For the other six months it's Boca Raton. ; )

Have you ever heard of the quotation "The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man" regarding zionism ? I don't know how much truth there is to it, but if it's true indeed, it says a-lot about their intentions.

I do find the endurance and staying power of the Jewish people very likable. And this comeback, after 2000 years. That is unique. Too bad that it had to happen at the expense of some other people though.
To right the wrongs of the past is no solution so both Israelis and Palestinians must look ahead. I know, easier said than done.

do elaborate a bit on the threat of war in this current situation

--- _ _ _ ---
"Your bear cared for you. Now you must care for the bear."

His point is look at Europe before the EU. War upon war upon war upon war upon... And then look at Europe after the EU, how many wars have there been between membership countries?

Simple, the thread of war keeps the state spending more then he would normally do in the defence sector. It also accelerates development and research as certain short-cuts are made, which are deemed normally to experimental or to expensive. But it keeps the whole nasties of war away.

IMI/Taas wouldn't be the were it were today if they would all engage in Jolly Cooperation down there.

Not that I condone such a practise, but it can work.

Of course, it can also go wrong and cripple a nation. Imo, one of the (many) reasons the Soviet Union failed was because they spend to much resources on their weapons instead of normal economic development.


Does Football count?