I spent years studying this shit in school bro, it's proven social mechanics, you're not making anything up.

The funny part is people jump on such statements like above, acting like we're calling women bad names. It's the exact opposite. Once you realize how much of a social construct society is, gender is, race is, youth is, whatever, you realize how it's utterly impossible to be racist, sexist, ageist or whatever else because it's all a construction of the mind.

I'm with you in terms of social construction of society, but there are still aspects of the individual be taken into account.
Gender is not all a socialized idea, there are differences in tendencies. The motivational structure of women's behavior tends to differ from man's. So I think you're right saying:
.. but in case of women there's more to it than just being socially pushed to think of games like that.

Your sarcasm detector has failed spectacularly :-P

This doesn't square with my personal experiences at all... For instance - I have a vivid recollection of a girl, just before a lecture, telling two other girls about her masochistic love and devotion to Gothic 1. Granted - philosophy students at a prestigious university are quite likely to be nerds by any stretch of imagination, but they seemed to have no prejudice, no preconceptions, no shame when discussing the issue. It may not have been "something everyone does", but it certainly seemed to be "an activity some enjoy", same as any other hobby. No stigma, nothing.
The "repressed geek" stereotype is something I know from media alone; it belongs in the mythical land of US of A, same as baseball, jocks and the popularity of console gaming. I "understand" it the same way I "understand" that elves are tall and have pointy ears - it's a form of fiction I take on faith, but it doesn't intersect with my day-to-day experiences at all.

Best of all - it makes your point even more valid. SOCIETY makes women this and that... but not all societies do so in the same way, right? Globalization be damned - I don't think things work here quite in the same ways (for better or worse).

Then I must move to Poland and find a Polish girlfriend. :P Talk about a German RPG for the PC from 2001 at a university here in the USA, and see what happens... This is what happens.


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/150/505/f30fd24c56e1bcfc926883d6a51d5a00.gif

Are there any girls taking part in this debate? I would think their input could be helpful to us. In turn, I'd like to offer my input to them. :D

HTML5 games don't count.

Which quickly drops that percentage back down around the 15 mark.

I'm sure, you'd like to offer your "input" to them.

Actually, while I wouldn't use the word "hiding" - this is exactly true. Women have been about a third of gamers...not recently, not the past few years...but for the past few DECADES - since the 1970s when it all started. Its only a big deal because for some reason someone decided to pay attention and came up with numbers they weren't expecting - and that someone happened to have a media tie.

For those of us who have been paying attention, this is not news. In fact, this is most decidedly "olds" :p And that 50% number probably does come from the "casuals" who play Farmville or Angry Birds or Words with Friends exclusively. So, 30-40% you could call a "real" gamer, and 10-20% "casual" out of the women demographic. Does that make any insecure people here feel better, knowing that the numbers they didn't know about previously haven't changed much over the years?

And, it's not that these women stopped or "went away" in the 90s, but they discovered it was smarter to keep quiet about their gender. Nothing ruined a good multiplayer session of DOOM (or a MUD gathering) more than guys finding out a player was female - let the boob and p***y questions and comments fire at will! This still holds true in everything from Black Ops to Warcraft from what I've seen. Yes, methods of reporting abuse have gotten better, but the problem isn't the moderators/hosts/admins, the problem is that these freakin d-bags feel entitled apparently. By the way, most of those players who claim not to have a headset or mic today? Yeah, odds are they are a female player who has gotten burned a few too many times - not for being a bad gamer - but for being female. I do the best I can with reporting abuse, but I'm only one person. Either way, regardless if you're in my WoW dungeon group or I see you on the streets and you tell someone to "kill themselves", or that you want to "rape them" I WILL report you and do my best to get you banned and/or reported to the proper authorities. The only difference is that *I* can reach your dumb ass if you're stupid enough to do it on the streets....


So here's a scenario:
The important women in your life - they've all been playing videogames, been playing for years now, for them it's not a big deal so they don't talk about it much. Your gf liked RE4 especially, but was irritated beyond belief at the how the whole "protect the presidents daughter" thing played. Your pregnant sister likes WoW and belongs to an all female guild. She isn't great, but she does ok and has fun (key words there, having fun..) Your mother loved the old school zork-ish and adventure/puzzle games that she used to play before being a mom kept her busy 24/7. Now, the kids are old enough that she's got some time for hobbies again and a friend of hers tells her about Tales of Monkey island, and Mechnarium, and of course the Kings Quest/Quest for Glory stuff here on GoG. So, she signs up for GoG, downloads a few games and loves them. She mentions GoG to your sister, who mentions it to your gf, and they find various games they like. Your sister liked Oddworld, your gf loved Planescape and The Witcher...

Now, here are my questions:

1) Which of them are "hardcore" and which are "casual"?

2) While looking for more game recommendations, they find this thread. They have just been told that their opinions are not important, that they will change games in a way that will ruin them for "everyone", and that "feminism" (the notion that women are people too) is stupid. Verbal abuse online is to be expected JUST BECAUSE they are women. What do you say to them? Do you need to defend your comments here?

For those who don't know what feminism is, though they think they do, a bonus question:
3) Your sister and her husband work full time jobs, but not all of their days off are the same and your sister needs to get some things done before the baby is due. You and she decide to run some errands and go get lunch. As you are walking down the street, your sister is catcalled by men on the street. "Whore" "Slut", and various comments about her anatomy are yelled after her. After all, even though your sister is married its obvious she's had sex since she's pregnant. Remember just a few short decades ago THIS WAS COMMON - and in some places it still happens (pregnant or not). Pregnant women were expected to stay home, although a short walk around sunset in the neighborhood with the husband was considered "socially ok". Would you do anything about it, or does she deserve this?

I realize that a lot of the posters here are too young to have seen how things were, and there are stories from before my time that are even worse. So, for those that still don't get it, I'd recommend you at least read a book or take a class on feminism or even just talk to your mom/grandmother/aunt before you bash it. Just a thought.

There is feminism(#1) and there is evil is everywhere, all men suck and should die, women are better feminism(#2). I bash feminism #2 because it is the right thing to do. Unfortunately, most feminists today are pro feminism #2 aka crazy feminists. Some people call these people, feminazis. They are everywhere and try to destroy everything.

Gamefreak has a point - I've had a few freaky stalking experiences with males myself and I"M male.

Different world maybe girls would be more out in the open but considering the existence we're in, they're pretty much prey.

I'd keep my gender disclosed too.

I've never met an American geek girl that knows Gothic 1... I've been to Poland. All the girls I encountered, didn't speak English and I only knew several words of Polish. It's hard to impress a woman without speaking her language. :( Beautiful country(the land) but a lot of buildings there are ugly, no offense. If I wasn't so lucky in Szczecin, I'd probably be trapped and homeless in Poland right now...a funny story for you, I bet.

...keep in mind she was in a "safe" place, talking to friends, not waxing poetic online about her love for Gothic. You might be surprised how many conversations like that are out there - but if one isn't aware of the context, you'd miss it completely. I was walking by a coffee shop one day, and I heard someone say something about "AA". To most Americans at least, this means "Alcoholics Anonymous"...but something about the context seemed wrong. Keep in mind I'm a bit learning disabled, so how I hear and process things is a little different I think - lots of background noise can be overwhelming sometimes, and I work in a correctional facility which means I pay attention to everything. I don't eavesdrop on purpose, I usually keep things muted to a dull roar if it's not related to me, but things that don't sound right sort of jump out and slap me. Before I'd gone two more steps I heard a mention of a guild name that made me smile - she was talking about a MUD I'd played on years ago: Ancient Anguish. So of course I had to stop and say hello, turns out we hadn't played at quite the same times, but we knew some of the same people. That's a conversation I think 99% would never have realized was about a game, and had I been walking a slight bit faster or slower I would have missed it myself.

I would like to see how they came up with this data, and if they removed social games and The Sims, what the numbers would be.