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jamotide: Why?
Because... I think the right of artists/authors/creators to own their work, in many cases their lives work, is an important thing. Because these people and companies put lots of time and money into creating these works, and for that reason they deserve to own them.

Ok, either you don't know what either "stifle" or "dispute" means. Btw, our culture is continually recycled, not sure how you did not notice this so far.
And that's a good reason why PD would be so damaging, because Western culture is so crass and exploitative, how everything is squeezed dry and milked for all it's worth. It would be an apocalypse of shit raining down if PD existed at 20 years, and nothing would be sacred.

I guess in Crosmando world, we are doomed even without PD.
Current Western society is incredibly creatively bankrupt. I mentioned about this over in that superheroes thread:

The 60's had it's own culture, it didn't just copy the 50's, the 70's had it's own culture, the 80's and 90's too, and so on. There's obviously always crossover. But we are currently living in an extreme period of culture cannibalism due to the fact that the modern (Western) society is complete shit... so we cannibalize shit from previous "golden times" when it was better. Of course it was shit then too, but not as shit as now.

The "God" of comics, Alan Moore, pretty much had it right:

"To my mind, this embracing of what were unambiguously children's characters at their mid-20th century inception seems to indicate a retreat from the admittedly overwhelming complexities of modern existence," he wrote to Ó Méalóid. "It looks to me very much like a significant section of the public, having given up on attempting to understand the reality they are actually living in, have instead reasoned that they might at least be able to comprehend the sprawling, meaningless, but at-least-still-finite 'universes' presented by DC or Marvel Comics. I would also observe that it is, potentially, culturally catastrophic to have the ephemera of a previous century squatting possessively on the cultural stage and refusing to allow this surely unprecedented era to develop a culture of its own, relevant and sufficient to its times."

Post-modernism at it's logical conclusion. Reality is too harsh and too complex for the peasants, better believe in superheroes as some kind of "modern mythology".

So it really doesn't matter to you that canon is broken, you just felt to mention it randomly.
It is important to me personally, but it's not the main issue at stake, it's just a bad symptom of PD. PD itself is the bad idea.

Please stay on topic, nobody wants states to seize assets.
You want "the public" to own all intellectual property after 20 years has passed, sounds like seizure to me.

Yes but you have no arguments for that argument, because Ctlhhulhu saves the world does no damage to the original IP holder.
That's because their is no rights holder for Lovecraft's work anymore, it's Public Domain, and this is the result, worthless hacks parasitically using it to make some cheap JRPG.

And yes, it is damaging to the Cthulhu mythos overall that that game exists, because it does not accurately represent it in-canon, it's just a childish joke.

Why?
Why not.

Yeah,so?
If you can't see the issue, there's no point explaining it to you.

And why is that bad?
Why do you reckon fucknuts? Because it's profiting from someone's else's work.

I'm pretty sure you will.
No, I will not.

And we're still glad it exists. Ad it does no damage to Lovecraft.
It does enormous damage to it, by being disloyal to the canon/lore, creating confusion and wrong impressions and ideas of what Lovecraft's works actually were about.

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Fenixp: Dude, you're ... You're talking to Crosmando here. As per usual, it doesn't matter what's "right" according to anyone but him - he even knows what I like better than me for crying out loud :D
Lovecraftian is not a first-person action-shooter where you go round head-shotting cultists and abominations = Says anyone with a functioning brain who has read his stories

A Lovecraftian game would you know - have no weapons - or at least no weapons would be used, and the gameplay would be like a detective adventure. Unless you can point me to one of Lovecraft's short stories where the main character goes round shooting creatures.

But of course expecting talentless hacks not to make a shallow action-game to sell to stupid casuals is probably asking too much. For your average "gamer" anything that instead action is "boring".
Post edited February 05, 2014 by Crosmando
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amok: how do you know what is "right" according to Lovecraft?

What anyone can do is to do their interpretation of it, same as you do right now. You interpret Lovecraft in a certain way that feels right to you. And according to your interpretation, those game do not fit. Still, this is only according to your interpretation. You do not hold the universal meaning and interpretation of what Lovecraft is or is about. Your interpretation is just as meaningful (or meaningless) as anyone elses.
And that's the point, the only person who's "interpretation" should matter is the creator/owner. No one should have the right to take the work of someone else and actually directly make an official derivative work, without the expressed permissions, authorization or licensing of the owner.

The best way to do it, would be Lovecraft Robert Howard's works would of been put into an estate/trust where no one could touch them. So the estate could license the IP to video games, but people there would make sure that any derivative work was loyal.
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Crosmando: Lovecraftian is not a first-person action-shooter where you go round head-shotting cultists and abominations = Says anyone with a functioning brain who has read his stories.

A Lovecraftian game would you know - have no weapons - or at least no weapons would be used, and the gameplay would be like a detective adventure.
Yeah, I'd say that's the reason why in most of the game (Eldritch), shooting is designed to be the last resort, after cunning and stealth fails you :-P Also, to do as you describe - to not investigate, to not explore and to run around shooting everything - gets you killed in the best case, releases the evil trapped in the library in the worst case. Only by being careful and figuring out what's required of you, by the means of exploration, finding clues (in form of diaries, yes, clues nonetheless) can you actually reach the satisfactory ending.

And you still have not answered how comes that, if Eldritch is a cynical cash-in, it does not associate itself directly with Lovecraft's works, other than calling itself 'lovecraftian', which is a widely-accepted genre of horror nowadays. You have also ignored the bit where I pointed out that the author himself said that "Eldritch's setting is loosely based on a number of Lovecraftian tropes". He doesn't even try to say that his game is trying to be some sort of successor or spin-off of Lovecraftian works.

Oh yes, false information is the best kind of information!
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amok: how do you know what is "right" according to Lovecraft?

What anyone can do is to do their interpretation of it, same as you do right now. You interpret Lovecraft in a certain way that feels right to you. And according to your interpretation, those game do not fit. Still, this is only according to your interpretation. You do not hold the universal meaning and interpretation of what Lovecraft is or is about. Your interpretation is just as meaningful (or meaningless) as anyone elses.
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Crosmando: And that's the point, the only person who's "interpretation" should matter is the creator/owner. No one should have the right to take the work of someone else and actually directly make an official derivative work, without the expressed permissions, authorization or licensing of the owner.

The best way to do it, would be Lovecraft Robert Howard's works would of been put into an estate/trust where no one could touch them. So the estate could license the IP to video games, but people there would make sure that any derivative work was loyal.
yeah, the best thing is to let a small elite decide what we can and what we can not do.

and how would the estate know what the creator wanted?

Lets stagnate culture.
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amok: yeah, the best thing is to let a small elite decide what we can and what we can not do.
And that's what TSR did the Advanced D&D games during the 90's, Baldur's Gate etc. And it resulted in some awesome products. It doesn't have to be ultra-restrictive, just as long as it's appropriate to the source material.
Lets stagnate culture.
It doesn't stagnate anything, unless you think being able to make derivative works without permission is stagnation. No one is being stopped from making their own original works. They just aren't able to use the content from others work in place of creating their own content.
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amok: yeah, the best thing is to let a small elite decide what we can and what we can not do.
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Crosmando: And that's what TSR did the Advanced D&D games during the 90's, Baldur's Gate etc. And it resulted in some awesome products. It doesn't have to be ultra-restrictive, just as long as it's appropriate to the source material.

Lets stagnate culture.
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Crosmando: It doesn't stagnate anything, unless you think being able to make derivative works without permission is stagnation. No one is being stopped from making their own original works. They just aren't able to use the content from others work in place of creating their own content.
I am looking forward to see all the lawsuits from the different estates. There is only so many monster designs you can have :)
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Fenixp: Yeah, I'd say that's the reason why in most of the game (Eldritch), shooting is designed to be the last resort, after cunning and stealth fails you :-P Also, to do as you describe - to not investigate, to not explore and to run around shooting everything - gets you killed in the best case, releases the evil trapped in the library in the worst case. Only by being careful and figuring out what's required of you, by the means of exploration, finding clues (in form of diaries, yes, clues nonetheless) can you actually reach the satisfactory ending.
No. Combat in a Lovecraftian game is an abomination, there should be one-stat: sanity. Characters in Lovecraft's stories never fight, and monsters are never killed with guns or weapons. It's purely psychological and characters are more likely to die from beating themselves over the head with a brick due to the horrible things they've seen, than actually eaten or whatever by a monster.

Amnesia: TDD is about the only format that would be appropriate really.
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Crosmando: Because... I think the right of artists/authors/creators to own their work, in many cases their lives work, is an important thing. Because these people and companies put lots of time and money into creating these works, and for that reason they deserve to own them.
Yes I think so,too. As mentioned before, PD does not take these rights away. This is no reason to be against the economic benefit PD would bring to everyone.

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Crosmando: And that's a good reason why PD would be so damaging, because Western culture is so crass and exploitative, how everything is squeezed dry and milked for all it's worth. It would be an apocalypse of shit raining down if PD existed at 20 years, and nothing would be sacred.
uuh ok, remember what I said about cocaine.

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Crosmando: Current Western society is incredibly creatively bankrupt. I mentioned about this over in that superheroes thread:
Great, if everything is fucked already what's the problem.

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Crosmando: The 60's had it's own culture, it didn't just copy the 50's, the 70's had it's own culture, the 80's and 90's too, and so on. There's obviously always crossover. But we are currently living in an extreme period of culture cannibalism due to the fact that the modern (Western) society is complete shit... so we cannibalize shit from previous "golden times" when it was better. Of course it was shit then too, but not as shit as now.
Yeah exactly, so your arguments against PD crumble.

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Crosmando: Post-modernism at it's logical conclusion. Reality is too harsh and too complex for the peasants, better believe in superheroes as some kind of "modern mythology".
Walter, wtf are you talking about...

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Crosmando: It is important to me personally, but it's not the main issue at stake, it's just a bad symptom of PD. PD itself is the bad idea.
No, it is not only a symptom of PD. Therefor irrelevant. Your personal feelings about canon are not useful to the discussion.

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Crosmando: You want "the public" to own all intellectual property after 20 years has passed, sounds like seizure to me.
More like opening up for business.

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Crosmando: That's because their is no rights holder for Lovecraft's work anymore, it's Public Domain, and this is the result, worthless hacks parasitically using it to make some cheap JRPG.
Oh boy, those worthless hacks again, they ruin everything, don't they.

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Crosmando: And yes, it is damaging to the Cthulhu mythos overall that that game exists, because it does not accurately represent it in-canon, it's just a childish joke.
You're the child, if you think anyone takes such a game seriously and gets bad feelings about the past canon. On the contrary, many people will here about this Lovecraft guy, which opens up new business opportunities himself. He now has a bigger market to write the original canon you so desire.

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Crosmando: Why not.
Because inofficial stuff can be really good and very much enhance our lives.

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Crosmando: If you can't see the issue, there's no point explaining it to you.
You wouldn't know, because you just make blanket statements without explaining anything. Piggybacking can be really good for business.

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Crosmando: Why do you reckon fucknuts? Because it's profiting from someone's else's work.
And profit is bad? There are many really useful parasites.

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Crosmando: No, I will not.
Too late.

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Crosmando: It does enormous damage to it, by being disloyal to the canon/lore, creating confusion and wrong impressions and ideas of what Lovecraft's works actually were about.
Yes everyone is confused now that Cthulhu is a good guy, right? Are Lovecraft readers typically braindead or is that just you?

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Crosmando: A Lovecraftian game would you know - have no weapons - or at least no weapons would be used, and the gameplay would be like a detective adventure. Unless you can point me to one of Lovecraft's short stories where the main character goes round shooting creatures.
You know what is awesome? Thanks to PD someone, say YOU, could make such a game now, and profit from it!

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Crosmando: But of course expecting talentless hacks not to make a shallow action-game to sell to stupid casuals is probably asking too much. For your average "gamer" anything that instead action is "boring".
Man these talentless hacks, I hate them!
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Crosmando: And that's a good reason why PD would be so damaging, because Western culture is so crass and exploitative, how everything is squeezed dry and milked for all it's worth. It would be an apocalypse of shit raining down if PD existed at 20 years, and nothing would be sacred.
I guess over ancestors had constantly shit raining down on them :)

also - Sturgeon's Law
You aren't going to get another word out of me, waste of fucking time.

Though I will rest smiling knowing that your "evil governments" are about as likely to reform PD as it that UFO's will start invading the Earth tomorrow. ie it ain't happening.
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amok: I guess over ancestors had constantly shit raining down on them :)

also - Sturgeon's Law
You forgot Crosmando's Law: Everything is shit, but some shit is a little less shitty.
Post edited February 05, 2014 by Crosmando
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Crosmando: You aren't going to get another word out of me, waste of fucking time.

Though I will rest smiling knowing that your "evil governments" are about as likely to reform PD as it that UFO's will start invading the Earth tomorrow. ie it ain't happening.
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amok: I guess over ancestors had constantly shit raining down on them :)

also - Sturgeon's Law
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Crosmando: You forgot Crosmando's Law: Everything is shit, but some shit is a little less shitty.
I thought Crosmando's Law was: Everything I do not like is shit, and you are shit for liking it.
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Crosmando: ...
Lovecraftian = inspired by Lovecraft. That doesn't mean it has to hold all of his principles or all of his traditions, it means it has to be sufficiently inspired by his works, which Eldritch most definitely is. But you wouldn't know, because you can't even be arsed to properly inform yourself about the examples you happen to use :-P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovecraftian_horror
Yup. I just didn't really want to link that as wikipedia is not considered to be a very good source of similar information.
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Fenixp: Yup. I just didn't really want to link that as wikipedia is not considered to be a very good source of similar information.
it may be on the correct level here...