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timppu: I'll be damned. Later today I actually got a SMS about buying Minecraft (as a gift). It would come to two kids (in the same household), so now it is a bit unclear at least to them whether buying one copy is enough, or if both have to have a copy of their own? If we are speaking about single-player only.

If I understood the discussion above, one copy is fine for single-player game, but if they want to play multiplayer (e.g. together), then both need a copy of their own. Piracy is not the correct answer to this, either.

Maybe I'll buy one copy first and see it they are happy with it.
Every multiplayer client needs its own key, just like every other online game these days.
You can turn the check off if you're running your own server (it's in the config file) so perhaps you could use one copy for multiple players on a LAN?
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Smannesman: Every multiplayer client needs its own key, just like every other online game these days.
You can turn the check off if you're running your own server (it's in the config file) so perhaps you could use one copy for multiple players on a LAN?
I think they are primarily interested in the single-player part, so as long as that is achievable with just one copy (in the same household, even if playing at two different computers)...

If they get into multiplayer, maybe buy another copy at that point.
Post edited June 03, 2012 by timppu
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Namur: It's not DRM free for singleplayer purposes either, not really, since even if you plan to play strictly singleplayer from the start you can't get around the one time connection requirement, not to mention that updates (real version updates, not weekly snap .jar's) are not provided standalone so each one of them forces you into another one time connection.
Your definition of DRM is starting to get rather broad. With this line of thinking we might as well say GOG games have DRM since you need an account to download them.
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Aaron86: Your definition of DRM is starting to get rather broad. With this line of thinking we might as well say GOG games have DRM since you need an account to download them.
I agree. Having to log in to get updates isn't DRM, the only difference is that you're logging in and downloading through a launcher rather than a webpage. The fact that you have to back up manually is inconvenient, but it's not DRM when that backup works fine.
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Aaron86: Your definition of DRM is starting to get rather broad. With this line of thinking we might as well say GOG games have DRM since you need an account to download them.
No, that's actually always been my definition.

I login on gog, i download the installer files. The files i subsequently install on my PC are never required to connect to anything anywhere. With Minecraft the files i install on my PC, the client, are required to connect to the server. Updates are also managed through the client, like steam or impulse or the original client/updater/launcher/thingy for The Witcher 2. Whenever the files on my HD are required to connect someplace for full functionality, yes, that's DRM on my book.

But please notice that calling things by their name doesn't mean i necessarily have a big problem with it. In a perfect world every game would be DRM free, in the real world i have no real issues with MInecraft's DRM. If given the choice i'll go DRM free even if that means a slightly higher price tag, absolutely, but considering the general state of affairs some DRM schemes are not intrusive and/or unfrienfly enough to keep me away from a game, i can compromise up to a point, I've been playing Minecraft non stop since Notch got hitched.
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Aaron86: Your definition of DRM is starting to get rather broad. With this line of thinking we might as well say GOG games have DRM since you need an account to download them.
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SirPrimalform: I agree. Having to log in to get updates isn't DRM, the only difference is that you're logging in and downloading through a launcher rather than a webpage. The fact that you have to back up manually is inconvenient, but it's not DRM when that backup works fine.
Indeed. For what it's worth - and I have tested this - you can download the JAR from your account on another PC, put it onto a USB stick or external hard drive, and just transfer it to X pc. Nothing stopping you from doing that, so it's not really DRM. The "one-time" connection you're talking about is not to authenticate the game, but actually to download it :)
Post edited June 05, 2012 by ne_zavarj
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jamyskis: Indeed. For what it's worth - and I have tested this - you can download the JAR from your account on another PC, put it onto a USB stick or external hard drive, and just transfer it to X pc. Nothing stopping you from doing that, so it's not really DRM. The "one-time" connection you're talking about is not to authenticate the game, but actually to download it :)
Let's go over what happens when someone buys minecrfaft. So, you buy it and you download it.

You're saying it's DRM free, so since we already have the game on our PC we should be done at this point, right, it's just a matter of installing the game ? You can at this point disconnect from the tubes and have fun playing Minecraft, right ? Yeah, nope, you don't even have a game downloaded or installed at this point. Let me say that again, it's the first time you boot Minectaft after you've purchased it and supposedly downloaded your DRM free copy and you don't even have the game, the only thing you have is the client. Insert random chars on the login fields to get a botched login attempt and you'll notice the little note on the client saying "NOT DOWNLOADED". Once you have allowed the client to connect to the server, through a proper login, the client fetches the required game files.

On the downlaod page you'll find this text on the download description,

"You'll be able to play the game without an internet connection if you've been online at least once"

What they really mean is

"You won't be able to play the game AT ALL unless you allow the client to go online once because inspite of our DRM free PR rap we actually don't provide a DRM free standalone installer"

Anyway, it's just that one time and we're done, right ? Yeah, nope.

Also from the download page,

"The standalone launcher will automatically update the game files with the latest version"

What they really mean is "Updates are pushed through the client, so each time we update the game you'll have to allow the client to go online, again, because isnpite of our DRM free PR rap we also don't provide standalone patches/updates"

I find it funny how you guys keep bringing up "you can copy the jar" or whatever when by the time you're in a position to do that you have already complied with everything the DRM forces you to comply with on the original machine.

One more thing, it seems to me you are mixing up snapshots, which are provided as standalone .jar's for everybody in the world with or without an account, with updates, which are pushed through the client.

Again, looking into the nature and behaviour of things deosn't automatically means a big problem with those things.
I've never played Minecraft online. I went online initially to purchase it. They were having site problems that day, which led to my card being charged but no download. When they cleared that bruhaha up a day or so later, they refunded the purchae price and gave me the game for free. Pretty decent of them. I was subsequently online one additional time to download an update.

I don't know what differences there might be between online play and offline play, but I get all I want from it offline. It hasn't installed any nefarious bullshit on my system, and it doesn't force me to login ever. Certainly fits my definition of DRM-free.
Post edited June 05, 2012 by muun
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wodmarach: MC is a game with always online DRM and a restricted offline demo mode.
You know what really gets me though because it's MC and "indie" people don't care when Ubi or EA do it well thats just wrong!!!!!111one. I won't add blizz or Valve there as people are apparently ok with them doing it -.-
Basically a load of crap. What "restricted offline demo mode"? GTFO.
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Namur: ...
Oh man, I have to log in to my GOG account and download the new installer when there's an update? DRM! DRM!

EDIT: Sarcasm aside, how do you expect to download updates without being online? The login is no different to the login on this site, so I fail to see how it is DRM.

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Namur: I find it funny how you guys keep bringing up "you can copy the jar" or whatever when by the time you're in a position to do that you have already complied with everything the DRM forces you to comply with on the original machine.
In other words "you have to connect to the internet to download the update". That's just common sense.

The fact that you can back it up by just copying the files from one computer to another is what makes it DRM-free.

I suppose them calling it DRM-free on the site is a bit disingenuous, but it's not dishonest. I would like them to provide actual installers, but the game doesn't actually have any DRM, and saying it does just doesn't make any sense.
Post edited June 05, 2012 by SirPrimalform
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SirPrimalform: The login is no different to the login on this site, so I fail to see how it is DRM.
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SirPrimalform: The fact that you can back it up by just copying the files from one computer to another is what makes it DRM-free.
If you really can't see the difference bewteen a process where the individual is simply asked to present his credentials in order to get a download link for a no strings attached file and a process where the individual is asked to present his credentials in order to allow a connction between game files on his PC and a server someplace then i guess you can't. Personnaly i think the difference is huge, actually sometimes that's the only differnce that separates DRM free from DRM light, like say, GOG's model and Impulse's model.
I think you are exaggerating, you can play Minecraft offline at anytime, just press login without any password and it'll give you the option to play offline.
The game plays exactly the same on and offline and the skin is not a fundamental feature of the game.

Edit: lol, if you have the internet connection to download an update for the game why can't you sign in? You can.
Post edited June 05, 2012 by PolygonAttack
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Namur: If you really can't see the difference bewteen a process where the individual is simply asked to present his credentials in order to get a download link for a no strings attached file and a process where the individual is asked to present his credentials in order to allow a connction between game files on his PC and a server someplace then i guess you can't. Personnaly i think the difference is huge, actually sometimes that's the only differnce that separates DRM free from DRM light, like say, GOG's model and Impulse's model.
Well that's the point, you present your login credentials to the client and it downloads the files to your computer. You're then free to back those up and they will work on any computer you copy them to (within reason). I fail to see how there's any DRM.

As I said, it's a bit disingenuous to call that DRM-free (which does normally imply something like GOG) but it's not dishonest. There isn't any DRM on the game.
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PolygonAttack: Edit: lol, if you have the internet connection to download an update for the game why can't you sign in? You can.
I agree! And how is that signing in for the update any different to signing in to a website for an updated installer?
Post edited June 05, 2012 by SirPrimalform
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Namur: You're saying it's DRM free, so since we already have the game on our PC we should be done at this point, right, it's just a matter of installing the game ? You can at this point disconnect from the tubes and have fun playing Minecraft, right ? Yeah, nope, you don't even have a game downloaded or installed at this point. Let me say that again, it's the first time you boot Minectaft after you've purchased it and supposedly downloaded your DRM free copy and you don't even have the game, the only thing you have is the client. Insert random chars on the login fields to get a botched login attempt and you'll notice the little note on the client saying "NOT DOWNLOADED". Once you have allowed the client to connect to the server, through a proper login, the client fetches the required game files.
This is just BS, sorry but it makes no sense, you just downloaded the client and you can't login to download the game for what reason? You can copy both the jar file and the .minecaft folder and put it on another pc no problem and you don't have to be online.

You are simply asking: "why do I have to be online to download the game?"
I'll let you figure that one out by yourself. Hint: the word "download".