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General discussion (archive)Mature vs. Adult gaming(67 posts)(67 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 29, 2012
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bevinator: I always found it interesting that the term "adult themes" almost always correlates to sex and/or torture-violence. When in reality, there are plenty of G-rated "adult themes." Just look at the Pixar movie Up! It deals with aging, death of a beloved spouse, the idea of a wasted life, unfulfilled dreams... all of which are things kids (and even teenagers) have trouble understanding. So it's an "adult" movie in a sense, but since it's not SHOWGIRLS, who cares?
Well it all boils down to semantics. But I would describe Up! as dealing with mature themes. Showgirls has adult content. But I would not describe Up! as an adult film, it is simple a film that does not dumb down the concepts of coping with aging, loneliness or death for the viewer. But it does portray them in a way that are equally accessible to young children and adults (which is very hard to do in entertainment so kudos to Pixar)
Posted January 29, 2012
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bevinator: I always found it interesting that the term "adult themes" almost always correlates to sex and/or torture-violence. When in reality, there are plenty of G-rated "adult themes." Just look at the Pixar movie Up! It deals with aging, death of a beloved spouse, the idea of a wasted life, unfulfilled dreams... all of which are things kids (and even teenagers) have trouble understanding. So it's an "adult" movie in a sense, but since it's not SHOWGIRLS, who cares?
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Zookie: Well it all boils down to semantics. But I would describe Up! as dealing with mature themes. Showgirls has adult content. But I would not describe Up! as an adult film, it is simple a film that does not dumb down the concepts of coping with aging, loneliness or death for the viewer. But it does portray them in a way that are equally accessible to young children and adults (which is very hard to do in entertainment so kudos to Pixar)
I think that the beginning segment of 'Up' was pretty amazingly effective for what it was. The rest of the film really wasn't quite as effective (the old 'Pixar's Patented Array of Plot Devices' made their appearance, which kinda undermined the whole experience), but still surprisingly moving for a Pixar film (I'm usually not a fan).
Posted January 29, 2012
You know, I'm seeing a lot more naked teenage girls on the streets than in the games I play, regardless of their rating.
Posted January 29, 2012
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kavazovangel: You know, I'm seeing a lot more naked teenage girls on the streets than in the games I play, regardless of their rating.
So, how hard is it to move to Macedonia?
Posted January 29, 2012
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Fenixp: So, how hard is it to move to Macedonia?
Not hard at all. Just find a place to stay!
Posted January 29, 2012
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jefequeso: The way I see it, this isn't a debate about values, or morality, or anything like that. It's about mainstream developers lacking creativity and/or finesse when they try to pursue mature themes. The same thing goes for movies, music, and books. In the case of videogames, there's having an appropriate level of violence or sex to help realize the world you're creating, and then there's just being lazy and putting it in for the hell of it. The second one is the case more times than people like to admit, I think. Because you really don't have to be extremely explicit to be effective (since horror movies were mentioned, I'll reference the original 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.' It's easily one of the most disturbing and brutal films out there, but it doesn't actually have to show much in the way of violence to accomplish this). In fact, I think that a lot of the effect can be lost when you just "show everything." It's not a particularly useful technique unless you're going purely for base level shock/titillation. But it is easy to do, and easy to excuse. Unfortunately, it's also easy to spot.
They have creativity....it's just as others mentioned: Sex/violence sell. It's also a great escape from the mundane world(Imho) to be able to do things(even baser animalistic things) one can't normally do in the real world. Yes, people like exploring more thought provoking worlds as well, or ones without such graphic elements, but that's why we have other types of games out there(and also other forms of media like books and the like.).

I also like a good thought provoking game on occasion, but when I want such things I usually go for a book to accomplish such, whereas I use games mainly for the "shock"/awe value they can provide.


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Zookie: Well it all boils down to semantics. But I would describe Up! as dealing with mature themes. Showgirls has adult content. But I would not describe Up! as an adult film, it is simple a film that does not dumb down the concepts of coping with aging, loneliness or death for the viewer. But it does portray them in a way that are equally accessible to young children and adults (which is very hard to do in entertainment so kudos to Pixar)
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jefequeso: I think that the beginning segment of 'Up' was pretty amazingly effective for what it was. The rest of the film really wasn't quite as effective (the old 'Pixar's Patented Array of Plot Devices' made their appearance, which kinda undermined the whole experience), but still surprisingly moving for a Pixar film (I'm usually not a fan).
I think the rest of thye film was good as well.....yes there were plot devices, but again this was a comedy film....not a 100% serious film about life's changes and how they affect us. The rest of the film, imo, wonderfully showed(in a silly way.....although with a few serious moments thrown in there) how a grumpy old man beset by many of life's problems started to cope with his issues and open up to the kid(and the world at large) as he went along.

He also learned how to live in the moment and enjoy his life, and care about others once more. Quite a good film, imo.(for a cartoon comedy that is)
Post edited January 29, 2012 by GameRager
Posted January 29, 2012
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jefequeso: The way I see it, this isn't a debate about values, or morality, or anything like that. It's about mainstream developers lacking creativity and/or finesse when they try to pursue mature themes. The same thing goes for movies, music, and books. In the case of videogames, there's having an appropriate level of violence or sex to help realize the world you're creating, and then there's just being lazy and putting it in for the hell of it. The second one is the case more times than people like to admit, I think. Because you really don't have to be extremely explicit to be effective (since horror movies were mentioned, I'll reference the original 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.' It's easily one of the most disturbing and brutal films out there, but it doesn't actually have to show much in the way of violence to accomplish this). In fact, I think that a lot of the effect can be lost when you just "show everything." It's not a particularly useful technique unless you're going purely for base level shock/titillation. But it is easy to do, and easy to excuse. Unfortunately, it's also easy to spot.
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GameRager: They have creativity....it's just as others mentioned: Sex/violence sell. It's also a great escape from the mundane world(Imho) to be able to do things(even baser animalistic things) one can't normally do in the real world. Yes, people like exploring more thought provoking worlds as well, or ones without such graphic elements, but that's why we have other types of games out there(and also other forms of media like books and the like.).

I also like a good thought provoking game on occasion, but when I want such things I usually go for a book to accomplish such, whereas I use games mainly for the "shock"/awe value they can provide.
I'm confused. Why are you even bringing up that sex and violence sells? We all know that. Nobody is disputing it. And why are you defending "animalistic" games and people who enjoy them? I wasn't attacking either. Hell, I'm an FPS fan...90% of the games I play are going to be fun just because of the violence. What I was/am saying is that resorting to gratuitous depictions of sex and/or violence is an easy way out. It's not a particularly effective or creative way of "making a point," but it is the most obvious way. And I'm not even blaming developers for using it, since (as already mentioned) they're a tried and true way to garner more sales. I'm just pointing out that this is one area (among others) where they don't show much in the way of creativity.
Posted January 29, 2012
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jefequeso: The way I see it, this isn't a debate about values, or morality, or anything like that. It's about mainstream developers lacking creativity and/or finesse when they try to pursue mature themes. The same thing goes for movies, music, and books. In the case of videogames, there's having an appropriate level of violence or sex to help realize the world you're creating, and then there's just being lazy and putting it in for the hell of it. The second one is the case more times than people like to admit, I think. Because you really don't have to be extremely explicit to be effective (since horror movies were mentioned, I'll reference the original 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.' It's easily one of the most disturbing and brutal films out there, but it doesn't actually have to show much in the way of violence to accomplish this). In fact, I think that a lot of the effect can be lost when you just "show everything." It's not a particularly useful technique unless you're going purely for base level shock/titillation. But it is easy to do, and easy to excuse. Unfortunately, it's also easy to spot.
I dunno, even in games that aren't all that deep you find stuff that is well handled and an adult theme, without being graphic. In Dead Island you see a person lose her faith and die inside, the implication was that she was raped, probably gang raped, and savagely beaten by people she was trying to help (yes, the violence in that game is pretty high but let's be honest, most people in the US have way more problems with even mild sex than some pretty severe violence, especially if the violence is mostly implied). Dead Island is just a zombie game, it's not that deep, it's pretty, it's fun, but not that deep. Yet even there you see some deep elements because the storyteller wanted to portray how people might act in a situation like that.

I don't find lazily putting sex and violence in a story (in any medium) any more insulting that the deus ex machina most people throw in (and fact I kind of hate deus ex machina at this point). Not everything has to be a masterpiece and even "pulp" works can have meaningful stuff inside. Not everything will be Shakespeare (which ironically was considered low brow back in the day).
Posted January 29, 2012
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jefequeso: The way I see it, this isn't a debate about values, or morality, or anything like that. It's about mainstream developers lacking creativity and/or finesse when they try to pursue mature themes. The same thing goes for movies, music, and books. In the case of videogames, there's having an appropriate level of violence or sex to help realize the world you're creating, and then there's just being lazy and putting it in for the hell of it. The second one is the case more times than people like to admit, I think. Because you really don't have to be extremely explicit to be effective (since horror movies were mentioned, I'll reference the original 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.' It's easily one of the most disturbing and brutal films out there, but it doesn't actually have to show much in the way of violence to accomplish this). In fact, I think that a lot of the effect can be lost when you just "show everything." It's not a particularly useful technique unless you're going purely for base level shock/titillation. But it is easy to do, and easy to excuse. Unfortunately, it's also easy to spot.
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orcishgamer: I dunno, even in games that aren't all that deep you find stuff that is well handled and an adult theme, without being graphic. In Dead Island you see a person lose her faith and die inside, the implication was that she was raped, probably gang raped, and savagely beaten by people she was trying to help (yes, the violence in that game is pretty high but let's be honest, most people in the US have way more problems with even mild sex than some pretty severe violence, especially if the violence is mostly implied). Dead Island is just a zombie game, it's not that deep, it's pretty, it's fun, but not that deep. Yet even there you see some deep elements because the storyteller wanted to portray how people might act in a situation like that.

I don't find lazily putting sex and violence in a story (in any medium) any more insulting that the deus ex machina most people throw in (and fact I kind of hate deus ex machina at this point). Not everything has to be a masterpiece and even "pulp" works can have meaningful stuff inside. Not everything will be Shakespeare (which ironically was considered low brow back in the day).
I was actually thinking more in terms of the presentation of the whole "tone" of a game, but in hindsight that's probably a little off subject. So point taken.

Also, for the record, I can totally see why Shakespeare would have been considered low-brow.
Posted January 29, 2012
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orcishgamer: Not everything will be Shakespeare (which ironically was considered low brow back in the day).
From my understanding, theatre and everything connected to it was considered "low brow" back in Shakespeare's day. :) However, be that as it may, Shakespeare was respected amongst playwrights and artists of his day - though no where near the reputation he attained in the 19th Century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare#Critical_reputation
Post edited January 29, 2012 by crazy_dave
Posted January 29, 2012
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GameRager: They have creativity....it's just as others mentioned: Sex/violence sell. It's also a great escape from the mundane world(Imho) to be able to do things(even baser animalistic things) one can't normally do in the real world. Yes, people like exploring more thought provoking worlds as well, or ones without such graphic elements, but that's why we have other types of games out there(and also other forms of media like books and the like.).

I also like a good thought provoking game on occasion, but when I want such things I usually go for a book to accomplish such, whereas I use games mainly for the "shock"/awe value they can provide.
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jefequeso: I'm confused. Why are you even bringing up that sex and violence sells? We all know that. Nobody is disputing it. And why are you defending "animalistic" games and people who enjoy them? I wasn't attacking either. Hell, I'm an FPS fan...90% of the games I play are going to be fun just because of the violence. What I was/am saying is that resorting to gratuitous depictions of sex and/or violence is an easy way out. It's not a particularly effective or creative way of "making a point," but it is the most obvious way. And I'm not even blaming developers for using it, since (as already mentioned) they're a tried and true way to garner more sales. I'm just pointing out that this is one area (among others) where they don't show much in the way of creativity.
I was just pointing those things out for the sake of pointing them out while using them to make my own points. (Which is that using such elements in a game or piece of media, imo, doesn't make them any less creative.......and also that games aren't really[again imo] needed to be thought provoking as we have other forms of media for that. Games are for having fun, imo....mindless senseless fun and escapism. Books(and some film) and other media already do a good job at making us think deeply on various topics.).
Posted January 30, 2012
Why doesn't world make mature sexual pc game without Japan?
Posted January 31, 2012
I don't know, but I bet the answer has something to do with cephalopods :>
Post edited January 31, 2012 by generalripper
Posted January 31, 2012
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Zookie: For example today it is hard to find games like Homeworld or Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, which were high quality games that with in-depth plots and though provoking ideas, but had content that would have been appropriate for any age (in my opinion). Or games like Planescape Torment , that had an edge to them would be fine for any 16 year old (or maybe even younger if the kid was mature enough for it).

So what do you think? Do you think that it is hard to find mature games that do not have adult content, or are there any parents out there who, like me, are not sure where to draw the line of what is, and is not, appropriate for their kids (because just because some is younger does not mean that they should have to only play childish or silly games)?
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I think it depends very much on genre. RPGs are mixing in more adult content. Strategy games like Civilization 5 are pretty much sex free but strategy games in general are rare nowadays. Adventures are mostly without sexual content. At least I am not aware of this.
Posted February 01, 2012
I really appreciate the OP for creating this topic, however I'm afraid I haven't seen much in the way of satisfying answers. Too much of a general debate ensued, I think.

The only recent games (that I'm more aware of -- I may simply need more time to think) which I believe would satisfy your needs are:
- Fate of the World
- Tropico (not a story based game but I think it's somewhat mature, in a silly way)
- Uplink
- Some adventure games (I haven't played enough, but they are out there)
- Historical sims/strategies (aka Paradox)
- Some seafaring games. I'm thinking like Silent Hunter, but again, I don't have enough experience.

There's been games recommended that I don't think would meet your needs:
Braid (it may be that I just don't find it fulfilling)
VVVVV
Fighting games
The Baconing (this game could appeal to a mature gamer, but it's intent isn't to be mature)
Trine (again, just not fulfilling; fun game, though)
Frozen Synapse (great game, no story to speak of)
AI Wars (great game, no story to speak of)
Wii games (I'm not saying there are none, but generally the games don't aim to be "mature")
Monday Night Combat (I'm wondering if some posters didn't read the OP)

I could criticize a lot more choices, but then I would probably classify as someone who is looking too much for high brow content.

I'll try to update this post if I think of more. If we include older games though, I think we could get a much more extensive list.

I have to agree with Jefequeso about Up. Pixar movies are in general aimed at kids, but like any good kid's movie, can appeal to adults. I think the best of the Pixar films for adults would be Toy Story 2, A Bug's Life, Monster's Inc. and Wall-E.
Post edited February 01, 2012 by elus89
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Mature vs. Adult gaming(67 posts)(67 posts)
(67 posts)