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F4LL0UT: She perfectly knows that she's lying in order to support a certain agenda.
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Elmofongo: I'm stupid how is pushing the agenfa that Video Games are evil benefit this women and all the other fuckfaces in the media?
Basically mudslinging their competition and taking the focus off their own role in sensationalizing these incidents and helping to create copycat killers who crave the limelight they give.
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McDon: These kind of thoughts is why paradox games were designed....
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tinyE: I'll bite. Huh?
Basically Paradox games are designed to **** up history but realistically, according to my Hearts of Iron Ireland is now fascist and invaded Northern Ireland during WW2.
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Fenixp: Videogames are huge, and a person who spends time playing a videogame would probably otherwise spend it by watching TV, as the most popular videogames provide people with the very same kind of mindless relaxation.
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F4LL0UT: Hard to tell what gamers would do if they couldn't play games (don't know if there's even studies on that topic) - but actually it would be pretty ironic if it would be watching the news and TV shows. "So instead of playing games about mindless violence they are watching us? That doesn't seem right... what do we have in common with video ga... oh, right..."

Anyway, actually I think that the news media and the gun lobby are underestimating the relevance of video games in modern culture and that's what will sooner or later put a stop to blaming video games for everything. They probably aren't even aware what a big portion of their audience is already part of that culture they are attacking, nor that it's growing rapidly.
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McDon: I've never heard game being blamed for any shootings or murder in Ireland either.
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F4LL0UT: Nor have I in Poland. Then again, the only school-shooting we've had (according to my memory and Wikipedia) happened in 1925. Damn those video games! Their evil influence is so powerful, they can even cause acts of violence in the past!
I can't find any Irish school shooting but there was one in the U.K (thought they'd be more in U.K)

I knew there was a difference but just didn't know there was that much between amount of school shootings in America and Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
The amount for one decade in US is the same as the total amount in Europe...
Post edited February 02, 2013 by McDon
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F4LL0UT:
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McDon:
Pardon me for asking a silly question, I mean no disrespect, but are you insinuating that I 'made up' the Revolutionary War and the subsequent "Articles of Confederation"?
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McDon:
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tinyE: Pardon me for asking a silly question, I mean no disrespect, but are you insinuating that I 'made up' the Revolutionary War and the subsequent "Articles of Confederation"?
No I meant changing it nowadays or recently, do it in Paradox games, I don't doubt your knowledge of US history especially since I know little of American history.
Edit: Plus it reminded me of a mod about alternative history where the 13 colonies broke up and 100 years later you're competing with them for North America, it's pretty fun actually.
Post edited February 02, 2013 by McDon
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tinyE: Pardon me for asking a silly question, I mean no disrespect, but are you insinuating that I 'made up' the Revolutionary War and the subsequent "Articles of Confederation"?
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McDon: No I meant changing it nowadays or recently, do it in Paradox games, I don't doubt your knowledge of US history especially since I know little of American history.
Edit: Plus it reminded me of a mod about alternative history where the 13 colonies broke up and 100 years later you're competing with them for North America, it's pretty fun actually.
Sorry. I seriously need to lighten up. I get a little touchy about this stuff, if for no other reason than all the money and time I spent at college. If I was to find out I was wrong about it all I'd be a little pissed! :P

While I've never heard of Paradox I do read books about similar things; recently I saw a book about what would have happened had Napolean made a very slight change to his flanks during Waterloo and what the world would be like now because of it.
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McDon: No I meant changing it nowadays or recently, do it in Paradox games, I don't doubt your knowledge of US history especially since I know little of American history.
Edit: Plus it reminded me of a mod about alternative history where the 13 colonies broke up and 100 years later you're competing with them for North America, it's pretty fun actually.
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tinyE: Sorry. I seriously need to lighten up. I get a little touchy about this stuff, if for no other reason than all the money and time I spent at college. If I was to find out I was wrong about it all I'd be a little pissed! :P

While I've never heard of Paradox I do read books about similar things; recently I saw a book about what would have happened had Napolean made a very slight change to his flanks during Waterloo and what the world would be like now because of it.
It's a company that makes "hardcore" strategy games among other things, you should try them though they're difficult to learn, they are some of the realistic strategy game out there. They made Crudader Kings 2 for example if you've heard of that.
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Elmofongo: Is Europe any better?
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McDon: I'm not sure about rest of Europe but any game-related news in Ireland is about how it's positive for the economy and is providing jobs, Star Wars: The Old Republic European servers being run from Ireland is an example. I've never heard game being blamed for any shootings or murder in Ireland either.
In Finland (where there has been a couple of school shootings too) video games don't seem to get much of blame either, at least I don't recall so.

Usually the blame partly goes that guns are too easily available and should not be granted to people with mental problems, ie. anyone who applies for a gun permit should first be ok'ed by a doctor (but the doctors understandably don't want such a responsibility on their shoulders, in case some gun owner loses it anyway), and some members of the parliament always have some less useful suggestions like that homes should not have guns at all, but they should stay in some central places e.g. the shooting ranges' or hunting society's premises (in Finland we don't have such a concept as owning a gun for self-defence or in order to oust the decision-makers; you can get a gun either for hunting, or for sports).

Then part of the blame also goes to what could have been done to prevent someone lose his mental health so much that he goes to mass murder others. Ie. was he missing some (psychological) help from the society, should more money be put to mental health care in schools etc. This second one is surprisingly something that seems to be missing from the US school shooting discussions?
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McDon: I'm not sure about rest of Europe but any game-related news in Ireland is about how it's positive for the economy and is providing jobs, Star Wars: The Old Republic European servers being run from Ireland is an example. I've never heard game being blamed for any shootings or murder in Ireland either.
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timppu: In Finland (where there has been a couple of school shootings too) video games don't seem to get much of blame either, at least I don't recall so.

Usually the blame partly goes that guns are too easily available and should not be granted to people with mental problems, ie. anyone who applies for a gun permit should first be ok'ed by a doctor (but the doctors understandably don't want such a responsibility on their shoulders, in case some gun owner loses it anyway), and some members of the parliament always have some less useful suggestions like that homes should not have guns at all, but they should stay in some central places e.g. the shooting ranges' or hunting society's premises (in Finland we don't have such a concept as owning a gun for self-defence or in order to oust the decision-makers; you can get a gun either for hunting, or for sports).

Then part of the blame also goes to what could have been done to prevent someone lose his mental health so much that he goes to mass murder others. Ie. was he missing some (psychological) help from the society, should more money be put to mental health care in schools etc. This second one is surprisingly something that seems to be missing from the US school shooting discussions?
We don't have guns for self-defense either but as well as guns for sport and hunting, people are legally allowed own guns for vermin control or basically farmers.
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F4LL0UT: Not to mention that they already are banning most violent video games and many AAA titles can only be distributed in Germany in their heavily censored versions. I love the fact that many "Killerspiel" opposers are asking for stuff that is already in place - shows how much they know.
That's not quite correct. Unless a game is literally banned, it can still be sold in Germany. Publishers just don't bother to actually release the uncensored version because those games can only be sold to adults and may not be advertised or displayed publicly which heavily influences sales figures.

But at the end of the day even banned games are still legal to own and play in Germany. At worst (and we're really talking worst case scenario) German retailers are not allowed to sell banned games. But it's still perfectly legal for you to buy and import them via international retailers like Amazon UK/US for example. You'd have to wander into child pornography territory to actually make import/possession of a game illegal.

In fact virtually every violent game can legally be bought and played in its uncensored version, provided you are old enough (read: know how to order via the internet) and have no assclowns like THQ/Valve in the case of Saints Row - The Third preventing you from activating you're (legal!) international version.
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AFnord: http://english.pravda.ru/

I rest my case.
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Titanium: Nowhere do I see "Fair and balanced" or equivalent plastered on the site and logo. Pravda has an obvious agenda, and doesn't hide it. You could replace the name with "Lenin and Stalin read this and approved" and no one would bat an eye. Fox news, on the other hand, gives the words "fair" and "balanced" perverse connotations.
That is true. Sadly, there are people who read pravda.ru and think that it is a good source for unbiased news.
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Randalator: That's not quite correct. Unless a game is literally banned, it can still be sold in Germany.
Nope, a game needs to have a USK rating in order to be sold openly in Germany. "Banning" (putting it on the Index) is actually worse than that. Media on Liste A can apparently still be sold to an adult who specifically requests them but distributing media that are on Liste B is illegal, no matter whether you do it commercially or non-commercially. And while owning games from either list isn't illegal at least the Liste B media can be confiscated by the police or the Grenzschutz. For example if I carried a Liste B game from Poland to Germany the Grenzschutz could take it away from me but I won't have to pay a fine (that's how two people who deal with this topic professionally explained it at conferences).
Let me say it again: modern media does more harm than good and is the main reason for many of society's problems today. I stopped watching TV and ignore media as much as possible and it has made me a LOT happier. Media leeches off your doubts, your troubles, ignoring the real problems because they ARE part of the real problems.

US media is worse than any other Western media that I can think off, mainly because you have 24/7 news channels which have to really try their hardest to fill the time and this has resulted in media making their own news, making stuff up from thin air, making a huge deal out of nothing and this always at the expense of something or someone.

Honestly, turn off your TVs, use the Internet and use a foreign site as a source for local news to get an unbiased view or just ignore it all together.
"Guns don't kill people, videogames do"

I haven't seen or heard of a case where someone tried to clobber another guy to death with a videogame. Even trying to slit his / her throat with a CD sounds rather difficult, at least as long as it isn't broken to pieces.

Even if videogames affect someone so much, that he's feeling the need to kill someone else, he'd probably still get a gun to do the job.
I fail to see what's so difficult to understand about that.
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Red_Avatar: Let me say it again: modern media does more harm than good and is the main reason for many of society's problems today. I stopped watching TV and ignore media as much as possible and it has made me a LOT happier. Media leeches off your doubts, your troubles, ignoring the real problems because they ARE part of the real problems.

US media is worse than any other Western media that I can think off, mainly because you have 24/7 news channels which have to really try their hardest to fill the time and this has resulted in media making their own news, making stuff up from thin air, making a huge deal out of nothing and this always at the expense of something or someone.

Honestly, turn off your TVs, use the Internet and use a foreign site as a source for local news to get an unbiased view or just ignore it all together.
The only thing news sites never lie about is the weather besides like you said I go here for my news

http://www.politifact.com/
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F4LL0UT: Nope, a game needs to have a USK rating in order to be sold openly in Germany. "Banning" (putting it on the Index) is actually worse than that. Media on Liste A can apparently still be sold to an adult who specifically requests them but distributing media that are on Liste B is illegal, no matter whether you do it commercially or non-commercially. And while owning games from either list isn't illegal at least the Liste B media can be confiscated by the police or the Grenzschutz. For example if I carried a Liste B game from Poland to Germany the Grenzschutz could take it away from me but I won't have to pay a fine (that's how two people who deal with this topic professionally explained it at conferences).
Well, then those two people are wrong. Plain and simple. And your explanation isn't completely correct either.

- Media without a USK rating are treated like Liste A media. They can be sold to adults as long as they're not displayed or advertised where minors can see them. Video rental stores will usually have them in stock because they have areas inaccessible to minors, and even any old electronics retailer is allowed to sell them to you although they will have to roder them in most cases due to the lack of a closed off area. Some might not sell them as part of the store policy, however.

- Now, Liste B media may not be
1. distributed,
2. exhbited, made available,
3. made available to minors, or
4. kept in stock, produced, sold, advertised or be ex-/imported with the intent to to do any of the things mentioned in 1.-3. (I'm quoting the relevant legal article here). The important part herte is to do any of the things mentioned in 1.-3., this is the qualifier for everything under 4.: It's only illegal to import if you intend to sell, lend, make it available to others, etc. This means that Liste B media cannot legally be taken away from you, if you're importing them for private use, be it personally or via mail.

It particularly cannot be taken away from you by the Grenzschutz, because it's not their jurisdiction in the first place, that would be German customs (where an uncle of mine works, so I'm not talking out of my ass here).