It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Kingoftherings: Yes, Windows has 85-90% of the market, but a very small portion of those who use Windows are gamers.

The interesting question to ask in this connection is not how many percent of Windows users are gamers, but how many percent of gamers are Windows users. I'll bet it's still 85-90%, if not more.
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: Anyway, you're right: it's not the least bit unreasonable. The GOG website is even designed with the Mac look. I imagine OS X will get some GOG lovin' eventually, though I am not holding my breath. There are suitable solutions in the meantime.
avatar
Wishbone: Yes, it is unreasonable. "The GOG website is even designed with the Mac look"?!? What does that have to do with anything? Do you realise how much work it takes to make a DOSBox game the GOG way? They have to make a "perfect" DOSBox configuration for the game for the platform it's supposed to run on. They have to test it from here to kingdom come. They have to make an installer for it, and test that. And they have to support it all afterwards. And then they have to recoup that investment of time and money by selling enough copies of the game. At $5.99, after the rights holders get their share that takes a lot of sales. Look at the market share of Mac OS'es. 4.87% vs. 93.06% for Windows. I don't think that warrants branching out onto that platform. It's just not economically feasible.

Wow. Sounds as though you are taking this personally, Wizball. Does someone have a little Mac envy? :P
I can put your concerns in perspective: that 4.87% represents about 30, 000, 000 users. But wouldn't it be a time consuming expense to port the games over to another platform? No, dosbox.conf is the exact same file on a Mac as it is in Windows. It just needs to be wrapped up with the game in a generic application package. Really, it's that simple? Yes.
A realistic hurdle I can imagine would be licensing. Contracts may have to be redrafted. Realistically, I don't see GOG branching out while still in beta, though it is a market they will want a piece of when they are big enough. Maybe you will even have that Mac of your own by then. Keep the dream alive, Wizball. :D
avatar
Wishbone: I am continuously flabbergasted by this phenomenon. I doubt many PC users go to Mac software forums and whine that their software isn't Windows compatible.

As a Mac user, and someone who has bought a few GOG games to run on my Mac, I felt I should respond to this. Yes, absolutely PC users come to Mac software forums and whine that their software isn't Windows compatible. All the time. And it's just as annoying.
That being said, I do think it would be reasonably easy to repackage the DOSBox games and sell them on Mac, at least from a technical standpoint. I've never had to reconfigure any DOS games to get them to work. In fact, the only challenge has been that I couldn't extract the game from the Windows installer, without having to use either Windows or WINE. I can understand if licensing prevents this, but it really wouldn't be difficult otherwise.
As for the rest of the games, while some of them do work in WINE (or more specifically CrossOver Games), until someone comes up with a good CrossOver Wrapper, I can't imagine selling them. For example, I got Heroes of Might and Magic III to work perfectly, but Fallout has been practically unplayable through it. There would need to be different version of WINE wrappers for different games, as regressions are common, and supporting updates to Mac OS might be difficult, as WINE is finicky. Unless GOG wants to work out an agreement with CodeWeavers, I can't see it happening.
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: Wow. Sounds as though you are taking this personally, Wizball. Does someone have a little Mac envy? :P

I can safely say I do not. I have exactly zero interest in the Mac platform, as well as all the overpriced iCrap floating around. (Understand, I'm not actively trying to insult anyone who happens to like Apple's products. I don't feel like that about the people using them, just about the products themselves).
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: I can put your concerns in perspective: that 4.87% represents about 30, 000, 000 users. But wouldn't it be a time consuming expense to port the games over to another platform? No, dosbox.conf is the exact same file on a Mac as it is in Windows. It just needs to be wrapped up with the game in a generic application package. Really, it's that simple? Yes.

Really, it's that simple? No.
Yes, dosbox.conf is the same file. Is the exact configuration that works optimally on XP and Vista necessarily the same as the one that works optimally in Mac OS? No. Will it need to undergo just as rigorous testing as the Windows version? Yes. Does it need a completely different kind of installer? Yes. Does that need to be tested? Yes. Will the whole thing need to be supported afterwards? Yes. Will the Mac versions have exactly the same issues as the Windows versions? No.
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: A realistic hurdle I can imagine would be licensing. Contracts may have to be redrafted. Realistically, I don't see GOG branching out while still in beta, though it is a market they will want a piece of when they are big enough. Maybe you will even have that Mac of your own by then. Keep the dream alive, Wizball. :D

Maybe I won't. Strike that, I definitely won't.
As you say yourself, the legal issues come on top of all the other stuff, and may be even more insurmountable. Is it possible that GOG will make Mac versions of some games someday? Certainly. But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Instead, I'd go talk to someone who are already in the business of selling Mac games. I think you'd have a lot more luck with that, and a lot sooner too.
avatar
Miaghstir: False. Here's a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mac_OS-only_games]few games[/url] he's not playing.

Mac users aren't playing those either, because none of them are compatible with newer versions of OS X and/or Intel Macs (unless you use a source port or whatever, but those are inevitably available for Windows/Linux/etc. too). What you're looking for is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mac_OS_X-only_games]Category:Mac OS X-only games[/url], which is a lot less impressive.
avatar
michaelleung: +1. Speaking of funny Mac parodies, here's a gamer Switch parody you may have seen.
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: Haha. Pure fiction, but I can see how the fallacy would appeal to a Windows mentality. In actuality, of course, the same games run just as well on a Mac with some benefits: I love how they are encapsulated, rendering any malicious code inert. Also, forget about rogue install files written to a shared registry, eventually destabilizing the entire system. But it isn't as funny to put it that way. :)

What games run just as well? The Unreal Series, IDs stuff and Blizzard Games? And I've never had rogue install files destabilizing my entire system, nor have I had games that I install try to run malicious code. I've never really heard of stuff like that aside from DRM tinfoil hat theories. Then again, I pay for my games. I have heard of Apple's updates destroying entire photo and music libraries for no discernible reason. I'm not a mac hater, in fact I look to get one when I get the money to have another laptop, but I'm not gonna buy into this whole lie that it does everything better than a Windows-based PC. I'd be buying it for the things it does different.
avatar
Miaghstir: False. Here's a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mac_OS-only_games]few games[/url] he's not playing.
avatar
Arkose: Mac users aren't playing those either, because none of them are compatible with newer versions of OS X and/or Intel Macs (unless you use a source port or whatever, but those are inevitably available for Windows/Linux/etc. too). What you're looking for is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mac_OS_X-only_games]Category:Mac OS X-only games[/url], which is a lot less impressive.
avatar
Miaghstir: Also, it was a bit of a sarcastic/joke-ish remark.
- A.K.A. I know :-)
avatar
WhiteHamster: What games run just as well? The Unreal Series, IDs stuff and Blizzard Games? And I've never had rogue install files destabilizing my entire system, nor have I had games that I install try to run malicious code. I've never really heard of stuff like that aside from DRM tinfoil hat theories. Then again, I pay for my games. I have heard of Apple's updates destroying entire photo and music libraries for no discernible reason. I'm not a mac hater, in fact I look to get one when I get the money to have another laptop, but I'm not gonna buy into this whole lie that it does everything better than a Windows-based PC. I'd be buying it for the things it does different.

You're absolutely right that Macs don't play the games as well. When the first generation of Boot Camp was released, many Mac users posted about how it was beneficial to use the Windows versions of games like Civilization IV rather than the Mac port, because it had less bugs and ran faster.
As for the upgrade problems, it doesn't matter which platform you use. Whether it's hardware incompatibilities with Vista, or 32-bit input managers causing errors in Snow Leopard, these things happen. It's always funny how the argument gets focused on these fringe scenarios rather than daily use. For me, I find that my Mac is more useful for web browsing, e-mail, task management and other similar task. For gaming, it's either older games or I play on a console. Neither Mac OS nor Windows are 'better'. It all comes down to usage, preference and past experience.
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: Wow. Sounds as though you are taking this personally, Wizball. Does someone have a little Mac envy? :P
avatar
Wishbone: I can safely say I do not. I have exactly zero interest in the Mac platform, as well as all the overpriced iCrap floating around. (Understand, I'm not actively trying to insult anyone who happens to like Apple's products. I don't feel like that about the people using them, just about the products themselves).
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: I can put your concerns in perspective: that 4.87% represents about 30, 000, 000 users. But wouldn't it be a time consuming expense to port the games over to another platform? No, dosbox.conf is the exact same file on a Mac as it is in Windows. It just needs to be wrapped up with the game in a generic application package. Really, it's that simple? Yes.

Really, it's that simple? No.
Yes, dosbox.conf is the same file. Is the exact configuration that works optimally on XP and Vista necessarily the same as the one that works optimally in Mac OS? No. Will it need to undergo just as rigorous testing as the Windows version? Yes. Does it need a completely different kind of installer? Yes. Does that need to be tested? Yes. Will the whole thing need to be supported afterwards? Yes. Will the Mac versions have exactly the same issues as the Windows versions? No.
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: A realistic hurdle I can imagine would be licensing. Contracts may have to be redrafted. Realistically, I don't see GOG branching out while still in beta, though it is a market they will want a piece of when they are big enough. Maybe you will even have that Mac of your own by then. Keep the dream alive, Wizball. :D

Maybe I won't. Strike that, I definitely won't.
As you say yourself, the legal issues come on top of all the other stuff, and may be even more insurmountable. Is it possible that GOG will make Mac versions of some games someday? Certainly. But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Instead, I'd go talk to someone who are already in the business of selling Mac games. I think you'd have a lot more luck with that, and a lot sooner too.

I will just say two things before I quit because I really didn't come here to argue.
1. First hand experience reveals that the DOS games sold by GOG are 100% identical when run in DOSBox compiled for OS X. All I am suggesting is that if I can get GOG games running flawlessly within minutes, GOG can surely get their own games running flawlessly within minutes. That is why I believe compatibility is not a hurdle for possible OS X distribution.
2. One of my initial comments was that I am not holding my breath (in those words even.) I also said there are suitable solutions in lieu of official support. I don't understand why you seem to feel threatened by that. I will not say anymore (not because it is strangely offensive to some but because there really isn't anymore to say.) At ease, Wizball.
avatar
Wasgo: As for the rest of the games, while some of them do work in WINE (or more specifically CrossOver Games), until someone comes up with a good CrossOver Wrapper, I can't imagine selling them. For example, I got Heroes of Might and Magic III to work perfectly, but Fallout has been practically unplayable through it. There would need to be different version of WINE wrappers for different games, as regressions are common, and supporting updates to Mac OS might be difficult, as WINE is finicky. Unless GOG wants to work out an agreement with CodeWeavers, I can't see it happening.

Install Fallout in a win98 bottle. Works perfectly.
Post edited September 15, 2009 by Darling_Jimmy
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: 1. First hand experience reveals that the DOS games sold by GOG are 100% identical when run in DOSBox compiled for OS X. All I am suggesting is that if I can get GOG games running flawlessly within minutes, GOG can surely get their own games running flawlessly within minutes. That is why I believe compatibility is not a hurdle for possible OS X distribution.

Listen Tetris, I never said it would be awfully difficult to get it to work. All I said was that you can't be 100% certain that the same configuration will work equally well on two different platforms. But that is the least of your troubles. You still need to test it every bit as rigorously as the Windows version, because when a customer has an issue with your software, then "we dont know, we didn't test it" is NOT an acceptable answer.
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: 2. One of my initial comments was that I am not holding my breath (in those words even.) I also said there are suitable solutions in lieu of official support. I don't understand why you seem to feel threatened by that. I will not say anymore (not because it is strangely offensive to some but because there really isn't anymore to say.) At ease, Wizball.

Look Tetris, I feel threatened by it because GOG is still young, and I want them to succeed. Therefore I do not want them to go into areas likely to lose them money. I would also like them to spend their time making new PC releases, rather than spending time making old releases Mac compatible.
Also, I am tired of people who want to play games, but go out and buy a system wholly unsuited for that purpose, and then expects someone else to magically fix that for them.
Now, since you argue yourself that, given the game files, it's not really very difficult to get a DOS game running in DOSBox yourself, you might consider lobbying for a different approach. Many people (including myself, I might add) have expressed a desire for the DOSBox and ScummVM games to have an extra download option: a simple zip file with just the game files in it. That would eradicate the need for platform specific installers, whilst giving people with other platforms access to the game files without jumping through hoops to get them extracted from the Windows installer. It would mean a minimum of work for GOG, with benefits for the maximum number of users.
Does that make sense, Tetris?
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: Install Fallout in a win98 bottle. Works perfectly.

I'll have to try that when I get home. Thanks!
avatar
Wishbone: tired of people who want to play games, but go out and buy a system wholly unsuited for that purpose, and then expects someone else to magically fix that for them.
Now, since you argue yourself that, given the game files, it's not really very difficult to get a DOS game running in DOSBox yourself, you might consider lobbying for a different approach. Many people (including myself, I might add) have expressed a desire for the DOSBox and ScummVM games to have an extra download option: a simple zip file with just the game files in it. That would eradicate the need for platform specific installers, whilst giving people with other platforms access to the game files without jumping through hoops to get them extracted from the Windows installer. It would mean a minimum of work for GOG, with benefits for the maximum number of users.
Does that make sense, Tetris?

I would like to see that. I backup the DOS files after installation to save myself the trouble should I need to reinstall. But I have a funny feeling that would be more of a tech support headache for GOG than OS X packages. Anyway, in the future, please read my comments carefully and don't project your unrelated anger at me: it is quite unbecoming.
EDIT: There is one more thing I should probably mention. Personally, I am not terribly interested in Windows games getting the royal OS X treatment. I doubt I would notice improved performance and I really like having my games sandboxed. I'm just suggesting GOG will probably want a piece of that market when they are ready to expand.
Post edited September 15, 2009 by Darling_Jimmy
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: Anyway, in the future, please read my comments carefully and don't project your unrelated anger at me: it is quite unbecoming.

What? I was mimicking your style exactly.
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: Anyway, in the future, please read my comments carefully and don't project your unrelated anger at me: it is quite unbecoming.
avatar
Wishbone: What? I was mimicking your style exactly.

Well, I meant the seemingly misplaced hostility. Regardless, I'm not angry. I am also just playin' around. It was a pretty good imitation, Wizball.
avatar
Wishbone: Now, since you argue yourself that, given the game files, it's not really very difficult to get a DOS game running in DOSBox yourself, you might consider lobbying for a different approach. Many people (including myself, I might add) have expressed a desire for the DOSBox and ScummVM games to have an extra download option: a simple zip file with just the game files in it. That would eradicate the need for platform specific installers, whilst giving people with other platforms access to the game files without jumping through hoops to get them extracted from the Windows installer. It would mean a minimum of work for GOG, with benefits for the maximum number of users.

I agree with this bit I quoted. Even if the zipped up data files aren't for Mac/Linux use specifically, it's even more "DRM Free" I guess you could say. The installer isn't really DRM (unless you don't use Windows), but it's nice not to be forced to use it. Like with Duke Nukem 3D, some people just might want the .grp file to use with eduke32 and they don't need to run the entire installer.
I've also found the obligatory Adobe reader install intrusive. I have to sit there and watch the game install just so I can cancel the Adobe install immediately.