It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Hey Goggers;

As many of you know, we announced on last Friday that we are going to introduce regional pricing for 3 new games coming up on GOG.com soon. Looking at the amount of reactions (over 3,500 comments at this very moment), it is obvious that this change is making many of you guys worried. We must have failed to clearly explain why our pricing policy for (some) newer games will change and what this means as a matter of fact for our PC & MAC classic games, which account for over 80% of our catalogue.

To be honest, our announcement was a bit vague simply because our future pricing policy is not 100% set in stone yet and we were just worried to make any promises before it was. You know, GOG.com has been growing quickly (thanks to you!), and the more we grow, the more we are worried to make some of you guys disappointed. This is why we were so (over-)cautious with our announcement.

We should have just been upfront about why we've made these changes and what they mean for us in the future and what we're planning. So let's talk. To be clear: what I'm talking about below is our plan. It's a plan that we believe we can accomplish, but while it's what we want to do with GOG, it may change some before it actually sees the light of day. Please don’t blame me for talking open-heartedly today and telling you about the plans and pricing policy we want to fight for and eventually achieve. The below plans aren't sure. The only guarantee I can give you is that we’ll do our best to fight for gamers while still making sure GOG.com as a whole grows (because well, we still want to be around 50 years from now, you know!). So, enough for the introduction, let’s get things started.

Why does GOG.com need to offer newer games at all?

We've been in business for 5 years now, and we've signed a big percentage of all of the classic content that can be legally untangled. There are still some big companies left we're trying to bring into the GOG.com fold, like LucasArts, Microsoft, Take2 and Bethesda, but what classic titles will we sign in the future once we have those partners on-board? We need to sign newer games or else just fire everyone and keep selling the same limited catalog. Either we bring you “not so old” releases from 2010+ or brand-new AAA titles, because these will become classic games tomorrow. It’s as simple as that.

Also, well, we want to expand beyond just classic games, hence the fact we have been offering you brand-new indie releases for almost 2 years now. Why expanding? Well, obviously, because the more games we sell, the more legitimacy we have on the market and the more likely it is that we can achieve our mission: making all PC & MAC video games 100% DRM-free, whether classic or brand-new titles.

To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it. It treats legitimate customers like rubbish and pirates don't have to bother with it. It's bad for gamers, and it's also bad for business and our partners. We want to make it easy and convenient for users to buy and play games; rather than give piracy a try. Happy gamers equals a healthy gaming industry; and this is what we fight for. Anyway, I am sure you well know our opinions about DRM.

To make the world of gaming DRM-free, we need to convince top-tier publishers & developers to give us a try with new games, just like they did with classic games. We need to make more case studies for the gaming industry, just like we successfully did back in 2011 with The Witcher 2. It was our first ever 100% DRM-free AAA day-1 release. GOG.com was the 2nd best-selling digital distribution platform worldwide for this title thanks to you guys, despite having regional prices for it. We need more breakthroughs like this to be able to show all the devs and publishers in our industry that DRM-free digital distribution is actually good for their business and their fans. And when I say breakthroughs, I am talking about really kick-ass games, with a potential metacritic score of 85% or more, AA+ and AAA kind of titles.

And this is exactly why we signed those 3 games we told you about last Friday. We believe those 3 games can be massive hits for hardcore gamers, that they can help us spread the DRM-free model among the industry for newer games and we did our best to convince their rights holders to give GOG.com a try. One of those games, as you see already, is Age of Wonders 3. We're planning more titles even beyond these first 3 soon.

Alright, but why is regional pricing needed for those (only 3 so far!) newer games then?

First of all, you have to be aware of an important fact when it comes to newer games: GOG.com cannot really decide what the prices should be. Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops. This will change over time (as digital sales should overtake retail sales in the near future), but as of today, this is still a problem our industry is facing because retail is a big chunk of revenue and there’s nothing GOG.com can do to change that. We need to charge the recommended retail price for the boxed copies of the games in order for developers (or publishers) to either not get sued or at least get their games visible on shelves. You may recall that our sister company CD Projekt RED got sued for that in the past and we don’t want our partners to suffer from that too.

On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.

Getting back to those 3 new upcoming games coming up. The first one is Age of Wonders 3, which you can pre-order right now on GOG.com. The next 2 ones will be Divine Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3. We’re very excited to offer those games DRM-free worldwide and we hope you’ll love them.

Still, we know some countries are really being screwed with regional pricing (Western Europe, UK, Australia) and as mentioned above, we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there.

And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed. In a few years it will become a classic in its own right, and then we have the possibility to to make it flat-priced anyway (read next!) The choice is always yours. All we are after is to present it to you 100% DRM-free. We are sure you will make the best choice for yourself, and let others enjoy their own freedom to make choices as well.

So, what is going to happen with classic games then?

Classic content accounts for about 80% of our catalog, so yes, this is a super important topic. We've mentioned here above that we can’t control prices for new games, but we do have a lot of influence when it comes to classic games. GOG.com is the store that made this market visible and viable digitally, and we're the ones who established the prices we charge. We believe that we have a good record to argue for fair pricing with our partners.

So let's talk about the pricing for classics that we're shooting for. For $5.99 classics, we would like to make the games 3.49 GBP, 4.49 EUR, 199 RUB, and $6.49 AUD. For $9.99 classics, our targets are 5.99 GBP, 7.49 EUR, 349 RUB, and $10.99 AUD. This is what we’ve got in mind at the moment. We’ll do our best to make that happen, and we think it will. How? Well, we have made our partners quite happy with GOG.com's sales for years - thanks to you guys :). We have created a global, legal, successful digital distribution market of classics for them. This market didn't exist 5 years ago. By (re)making all those games compatible with modern operating systems for MAC and PC, we've made forgotten games profitable again. When it comes to classic games, we can tell them that we know more about this market than anyone. :) Being retrogaming freaks ourselves, we know that 5.99 EUR or GBP is crazy expensive for a classic game (compared to 5.99 USD). We have always argued that classic games only sell well if they have reasonable prices. Unfair regional pricing equals piracy and that’s the last thing anybody wants.

What’s next?

We will do our very best to make all of the above happen. This means three things:

First, we will work to make our industry go DRM-free in the future for both classic and new games (that’s our mission!).

Second, we will fight hard to have an attractive offer for those AA+ new games for our European, British and Australian users, despite regional pricing that we have to stick to.

Third, we will switch to fair local pricing for classic games, as I mentioned above.

TheEnigmaticT earlier mentioned that he would eat his hat if we ever brought DRM to GOG.com. I'm going to go one step further: by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing as outlined above. If not, we'll set up a record a video of some horrible public shaming for me, TheEnigmaticT, and w0rma. In fact, you know what? Feel free to make suggestions below for something appropriate (but also safe enough that we won't get the video banned on YouTube) so you feel that we're motivated to get this done quickly. I'll pick one that's scary enough from the comments below and we'll let you know which one we're sticking to.

I hope that this explanation has helped ease your worry a bit and help you keep your faith in GOG.com as a place that's different, awesome, and that always fights for what's best for gamers. If you have any questions, comments or ideas, feel free to address them to us below and TheEnigmaticT and I will answer them to the best of our abilities tomorrow. We hear you loud and clear, so please do continue sharing your feedback with us. At the end of the day GOG.com is your place; without you guys it would just be a website where a few crazy people from Europe talk about old games. :)

I end many of my emails with this, but there's rarely a time to use it more appropriately than here:

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
avatar
_Bruce_: I have a theory (unsupported, hard to prove). In the US or places where regional pricing doesn't affect people much, customers are here for DRM Free. The prices are similar or a bit higher, but people who consider DRM Free important purcahse here and get involved in the community.

In places where prices are much higher people are much more likely to purcahse from GOG purely because GOG provides the best price. These people may not care at all (or just less) about DRM free and are less likely to get involved in the community.

If this (unproven) theory is correct, it suggests that sales will be impacted even more than this thread would indicate (which is to say, a lot). Thoughts?
avatar
JohnnyDollar: I don't know. GOG have had a ripple effect in the industry. They've opened the doors not only for old games from publishers' back catalogs that have turned up at other DDs, but they've also opened the doors on them being DRM-free elsewhere. Additionally they have raised an awareness among the greater gaming community about DRM. How much I don't know.

DRM-free is what brought me here. What % of GOG customers hold that as a top priority I have no idea. A lot of gamers apparently don't care about DRM unless they get burned by it, and even then...

GOG probably have an estimation, but I don't. If DRM-free is among the priorities but not necessarily the top one, that could still sway someone. Plus the fact that everyone is doing regional pricing for digital stuff, so it's not like GOG aren't still being competitive with the rest of the field.
Yeah +1 for that . I mentioned in another thread . Nearly every store switched regional pricing these days . I think problem is not GOG releated .
avatar
gooberking: You do realize that the Witcher 2 was region priced as well, but only after fighting really hard to prevent it after getting sued for trying to sell it at a flat rate? What precisely do you expect them to do in a situation where it's not only illegal, but they have already been legally chastised once over it?
avatar
JohnnyDollar: Yes, I remember, but I think the court battle was actually over GOG not enforcing geo location. They were going to use regional pricing and then let anyone say that they are from x country when they purchase the game. It's been a few years, but I remember the geo location being an issue.

Edit: Again, it's been a while and I might be off there.
That may be how it went down. Seems like they tried to ignore geo to snake out of being forced into regional pricing which I don't think they really wanted to be doing. If I recall correctly they were quite forward about how they wouldn't be checking so you know, wink, wink. They still got hammered for it, and there isn't any room left to be clever about it this time around.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by gooberking
Wasn't there a free game overprice equivalent for the witcher 2 or something like that back in the day? I vaguely remember something like that...
avatar
groze: You're entitled to your opinion, my friend, and nothing I could say is going to change your mind, so all I can add to what I said is that I feel sorry for you feeling angry and let down. It's not my job to make you trust or believe in GOG again, and as much as I'll continue placing some trust in them, I can understand entirely why many people can't do it right now.

Until we bump into each other in here again! :)
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: What I said, except the last line, is not "my opinion"

What I have written is what actually happend, no opinions, no assumptions.

If you still want to support and trust GOG.com, that is OK by me, but please don't simply dismiss the facts as "just an opinion".

See you around.
You're right, I didn't mean to sound like I was dismissing facts for opinions, I apologize for that.

Still, despite all those facts, it still stands that that doesn't seem enough a revenue and profit, in the long run, and, as things stand now, GOG does seem to be stagnating a bit, turning into a close-minded community of people that are overly protective of their things. Many of the people here are still mad at GOG for having included newer games, change is never easy as it involves a great deal of risk, but if you don't try, if you don't risk it, you gain nothing, you don't "evolve". Did the risk of adding newer games pay off? From the same facts you posted, I'd say it did.

I don't think the DRM-free revolution is going to happen just with oldies and indies. Most people see GOG as a depository -- a virtual warehouse, if you will -- for old games that only nostalgic decrepit gamers care about. This public perception does nothing for major studios to care about GOG. If Triumph and Larian were complicated to get on board, having imposed this pricing policy change on GOG, imagine video game behemoths like ZeniMax and 2K, not to mention Disney and their LucasArts catalog. This isn't something I think for myself because I want the games, as I'm fortunate enough to have a boxed copy of Grim Fandango that still runs and plays wonderfully, but why should we deny younger and newer gamers this wonderful game that is undoubtedly part of the video game history? Disney is never going to see GOG as being relevant if they don't cause more ripples in the water than what they are doing now. I'm sure those facts mean a lot in small college and indie conferences, but big corporations that could bring really amazing stuff over couldn't care less about that. The amazing profit and revenue GOG showed in that video and post works well enough to keep things going as they are, sure. But keeping things as they are is definitely not healthy for anyone, in the long run. Not for the companies, not for the consumers. You mentioned my country tag earlier, and, yes, I'm Portuguese and writing this post from Portugal. Do you know some of the reasons my country is so poor, indebted and backwards? Because we lived under a fascist regime that lasted over 50 years, during which we took no chances whatsoever, "things were good as they were", we even had a slogan, "evolução na continuidade" (evolution in continuity) that translated that mentality. Look at us now, a shadow of a country that most people think it's part of Spain. That's because we lack innovative spirit and entrepreneurship. But we were once great. Do you know when? When we took chances, when we risked everything and ventured into the ocean. When we risked everything other countries deemed impossible, that's when we were one of the biggest empires the world had ever known.

It takes some colossal cojones, on GOG's part, to pull out what they are trying to pull. I don't think these three games are as big as they made us believe they were (well. except for Witcher, everyone seems excited for that one, from IGN to Gamespot to Destructoid and Giant Bomb). They knew the community would feel crossed, they knew a vocal number of us would be asking for blood. And you're as right to feel that way as someone who doesn't believe in black and white, like me, can tell. Your arguments are valid, you have the facts to back them up, and, yes, most definitely, GOG lied to us, that's a really bad thing to do. I'm not being sarcastic. But those facts you show are only good if you plan an "evolução na continuidade". And being Portuguese, I don't want GOG to be Portugal. I want GOG to be Germany or the UK.
avatar
GOG.com: And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed.

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
I've decided the first AA+ title I will wait for an 80% discount is Witcher 3. Pretty disappointed that your own parent company is deciding (or being forced, through using a particular publisher who loves regional pricing) to lead the charge for regional pricing.

These publishers are trying to protect a dying industry by inflating digital prices to match bricks and mortar stores. Two problems, these bricks and mortar stores often discount the game below the cost of the digital product very quickly, and secondly, retail game sales are dropping off, and quickly being replaced by digital. It is time to embrace the new digital model, and stop ripping customers off who live geographically further away, yet, who are still only a few more server hops away. There is no more cost involved in getting your product to me.

Lastly, I hope you realise if you want to start selling AA+ games, you will be competing with some of the big boys. You are going to have to differentiate yourself somehow. Right now, its price. Will you be able to sell products cheaper than these bigger, more established, AA+ game sellers?
avatar
PaladinWay: Looking through my library for the games I bought in the past year, which is certainly skewed to what was on sale in the past year as opposed to being representative, I have 12 games with serial number on my shelf (13 if you count Incredipede which has a key for a browser-based game gift code which I'm not counting as a key to play as opposed to a key for a bonus). Two of the twelve games (Far Cry 2 & DEFCON) state that the CD key is required for online play on the store page, so I'd agree those don't count either. One, Galactic Civilizations I (which amusingly enough is a Stardock game, and they had a fairly famous no DRM stance once upon a time but have now embraced Steam at the very least) has a CD key and is listed to not have multiplayer. Another, Setlers 2: 10th Anniversary, has a CD key and does have multiplayer but states that the game's multiplayer servers have been taken offline and multiplayer is only available over LAN. The last eight (Wargame: European Escalation, all three STALKER games, Eador Masters of the Broken World, Two Worlds 2, Settlers 3 Ultimate, and Heritage of Kings: The Settlers) are unclear as they don't state reason for need of a key but have multiplayer and don't state anything about the game's multiplayer servers being offline.
I didn't even know FC2 had a key, and I've played the hell out of the GOG version. Tells you how in touch I am with multiplayer. As to STALKER, I bought the whole lot on the debut sale and have played them without being asked for keys. Same with NWN, but that's been established as being for multi. Same with Two Worlds II, though IIRC that has multiplayer. For the rest, a formaltiy, maybe? I've certainly never been asked for a CD key to play a game by myself, which is more than I can say for DotEmu. Alien Breed has this cute little hack, where you can basically type anything at the prompt and it'll play the full version anyway, it's actually quite impressive how they pulled that off.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by RawSteelUT
avatar
RaikonLance: If they try to use these games at an expo to present themselves and the sales turn out to be a failure, gog.com will lose the opportunity to ever get AAA producers on board. So it will be that their region pricing might as well be their death sentence on their moral crusade on DRM. And not only will they fail that goal, they will also lose a big part of their supporters. By this change, they really went all in, and if these threads are any indication, they are on the losing end of it.
Well, they've apparently timed it with the run-up to their TW3 release. They're probably putting up the best games that they can get as far as convincing publishers to bring their launch day titles here in this period of time during that run-up.

Don't forget that we posting on this forum are only a small % of the customers that GOG have. How accurately our views represent all of GOG's customers and potential customers, I have no idea. The sight of a group of upset members here can exaggerate one's impression.
What currency will I, as a brazilian, be paying with? Dollars still?
avatar
DaCostaBR: What currency will I, as a brazilian, be paying with? Dollars still?
Certainly won't be euros, heh ;)
avatar
groze: I want GOG to be Germany
High prices, censored games and region locks - yup, there's definitely potential for GOG to become Germany soon. ;)

Just kidding, I actually liked your post.
avatar
DaCostaBR: What currency will I, as a brazilian, be paying with? Dollars still?
I think it might be Brazilian Real because Nuuvem uses it, but I am not sure.
avatar
nadenitza: Wasn't there a free game overprice equivalent for the witcher 2 or something like that back in the day? I vaguely remember something like that...
Oooh, so that's what all the complaining is about? Compensatory gifts. You rascals, you :p
Post edited February 26, 2014 by cmdr_flashheart
avatar
groze: You're in Germany, at least according to your forum tag, so it's likely the sale price actually said €39.99. I have a screenshot of that page that you can check for comparison.

Not saying it's "fair" and "fine and dandy", just trying to clarify this for people as much as possible.
avatar
RawSteelUT: Thank you. I've seen no attempt to hide anything here. If anything, Mr. Rambourg has been so much more honest than we'd ever seen before. There's that, there's the announcement page for the game, there's so many things that make it clear what's going on.

And this is what enrages me. People act like something's being hidden, when in reality, GOG's being more up-front than any other store would be.
Actually, back in the day Stardock was this upfront or a little better with Impulse. Their CEO still goes on record with fairly blunt, "Yeah, we screwed up" messages. I've got two or three public apologies to all customers by him still in my Hotmail account which were, "This was my fault because I'm in charge. If you want to blame, blame me. If you're curious about the specifics of the mistakes, read on for the gory details."

I'm not saying GoG's reaction here is bad, but it's not unprecedented from a digital distributor. Granted, that happening from Impulse now that GameStop bought them would seem like a sign of the apocalypse, but Stardock treated their customers right and did frequently speak out against DRM. Now they require Steam with their new releases, which, to be fair, the CEO was very blunt and public making statements about, sounded a little resigned and defeated as they'd attempted their own competition for the platform which hadn't taken off, and publicly offered blanket refunds to everyone with a presale for something that would require Steam who considered Steam a dealbreaker. I disagree with some of the directions they've taken lately and haven't been interested enough to follow them now that they require Steam, but last I saw Brad Wardell (Stardock's CEO & founder) was one of the only CEOs I could name that I respect.

plus with regional pricing all you have to do is use a proxy , register a new account from russia under a different email addy and you are done. ;)
Sorry, it's not that simple. When you purchase it is possible to check the origin of your credit card, in addition to your physical location using your IP address. If they wish, they can make it very difficult to try and avoid the bullshit regional pricing.

I recommend that as many people as possible just stop buying from GOG until they go back to being a company with integrity again.
Way, way too many posts to read and I'm equally sure the battle is something I don't even need to peruse...

So let me just say this, tax is a fact of life. It doesn't matter where or when you live(d), tax was and is the method by which governments function. To think that gaming should be tax-free or that one-world, one-price was ever truly fair or good business, was a pipe-dream. Clearly GOG, in not doing $1 = E1, or any other currency, is attempting to be uber-fair to ALL of it's customers and it's publishers as well while also placating local governments.

In the past, none of us saw the real numbers...we saw an ideal. And yeah, that ideal is amazing...but it's not here yet. There isn't a global, universal economy that works on a fair, equal basis. There isn't a global union where we are all free and equal and considered the same no matter where we live. That is an ideal - one which I personally would love to see. Freedom to be human with all my weird faults and foibles. Free to live my life as I see fit. Free to love whom I wish without repercussions etc, etc, etc....

Free to download a game for a specific price and actually own it forever - that is GOG's mission. They aren't in this business to shortchange publishers ( who aren't in this business to give stuff away for free). If regional pricing in order to pay regional taxes is a fairer way to do business, then hey, I applaud them. After-all, they must make money to stay in business - that is just life. Publishers too and well governments as well.

Try to see the big picture in this, everyone. Yeah, one-world, one-price was and is an ideal - one which we ALL should be striving for in the same way we should be striving for one-world, equal rights... but that day is not here. Yet!

~Soap box free now~

PS: Btw, we are not Gogger's, Guillaume, we're Goglodytes ;-p
Post edited February 26, 2014 by Momo1991

plus with regional pricing all you have to do is use a proxy , register a new account from russia under a different email addy and you are done. ;)
avatar
xyzzy007: Sorry, it's not that simple. When you purchase it is possible to check the origin of your credit card, in addition to your physical location using your IP address. If they wish, they can make it very difficult to try and avoid the bullshit regional pricing.

I recommend that as many people as possible just stop buying from GOG until they go back to being a company with integrity again.
Just have someone from russia gift you the game and pay him the expenses. (witch would definitely be less than paying for the game yourself)

We need to rally the russians! hahaha :D
Post edited February 26, 2014 by nadenitza