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General discussion (archive)<b>Letter from the M.D.</b>: About Regional Pricing(5517 posts) (5517 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 25, 2014
Hey Goggers;

As many of you know, we announced on last Friday that we are going to introduce regional pricing for 3 new games coming up on GOG.com soon. Looking at the amount of reactions (over 3,500 comments at this very moment), it is obvious that this change is making many of you guys worried. We must have failed to clearly explain why our pricing policy for (some) newer games will change and what this means as a matter of fact for our PC & MAC classic games, which account for over 80% of our catalogue.

To be honest, our announcement was a bit vague simply because our future pricing policy is not 100% set in stone yet and we were just worried to make any promises before it was. You know, GOG.com has been growing quickly (thanks to you!), and the more we grow, the more we are worried to make some of you guys disappointed. This is why we were so (over-)cautious with our announcement.

We should have just been upfront about why we've made these changes and what they mean for us in the future and what we're planning. So let's talk. To be clear: what I'm talking about below is our plan. It's a plan that we believe we can accomplish, but while it's what we want to do with GOG, it may change some before it actually sees the light of day. Please don’t blame me for talking open-heartedly today and telling you about the plans and pricing policy we want to fight for and eventually achieve. The below plans aren't sure. The only guarantee I can give you is that we’ll do our best to fight for gamers while still making sure GOG.com as a whole grows (because well, we still want to be around 50 years from now, you know!). So, enough for the introduction, let’s get things started.

Why does GOG.com need to offer newer games at all?

We've been in business for 5 years now, and we've signed a big percentage of all of the classic content that can be legally untangled. There are still some big companies left we're trying to bring into the GOG.com fold, like LucasArts, Microsoft, Take2 and Bethesda, but what classic titles will we sign in the future once we have those partners on-board? We need to sign newer games or else just fire everyone and keep selling the same limited catalog. Either we bring you “not so old” releases from 2010+ or brand-new AAA titles, because these will become classic games tomorrow. It’s as simple as that.

Also, well, we want to expand beyond just classic games, hence the fact we have been offering you brand-new indie releases for almost 2 years now. Why expanding? Well, obviously, because the more games we sell, the more legitimacy we have on the market and the more likely it is that we can achieve our mission: making all PC & MAC video games 100% DRM-free, whether classic or brand-new titles.

To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it. It treats legitimate customers like rubbish and pirates don't have to bother with it. It's bad for gamers, and it's also bad for business and our partners. We want to make it easy and convenient for users to buy and play games; rather than give piracy a try. Happy gamers equals a healthy gaming industry; and this is what we fight for. Anyway, I am sure you well know our opinions about DRM.

To make the world of gaming DRM-free, we need to convince top-tier publishers & developers to give us a try with new games, just like they did with classic games. We need to make more case studies for the gaming industry, just like we successfully did back in 2011 with The Witcher 2. It was our first ever 100% DRM-free AAA day-1 release. GOG.com was the 2nd best-selling digital distribution platform worldwide for this title thanks to you guys, despite having regional prices for it. We need more breakthroughs like this to be able to show all the devs and publishers in our industry that DRM-free digital distribution is actually good for their business and their fans. And when I say breakthroughs, I am talking about really kick-ass games, with a potential metacritic score of 85% or more, AA+ and AAA kind of titles.

And this is exactly why we signed those 3 games we told you about last Friday. We believe those 3 games can be massive hits for hardcore gamers, that they can help us spread the DRM-free model among the industry for newer games and we did our best to convince their rights holders to give GOG.com a try. One of those games, as you see already, is Age of Wonders 3. We're planning more titles even beyond these first 3 soon.

Alright, but why is regional pricing needed for those (only 3 so far!) newer games then?

First of all, you have to be aware of an important fact when it comes to newer games: GOG.com cannot really decide what the prices should be. Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops. This will change over time (as digital sales should overtake retail sales in the near future), but as of today, this is still a problem our industry is facing because retail is a big chunk of revenue and there’s nothing GOG.com can do to change that. We need to charge the recommended retail price for the boxed copies of the games in order for developers (or publishers) to either not get sued or at least get their games visible on shelves. You may recall that our sister company CD Projekt RED got sued for that in the past and we don’t want our partners to suffer from that too.

On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.

Getting back to those 3 new upcoming games coming up. The first one is Age of Wonders 3, which you can pre-order right now on GOG.com. The next 2 ones will be Divine Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3. We’re very excited to offer those games DRM-free worldwide and we hope you’ll love them.

Still, we know some countries are really being screwed with regional pricing (Western Europe, UK, Australia) and as mentioned above, we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there.

And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed. In a few years it will become a classic in its own right, and then we have the possibility to to make it flat-priced anyway (read next!) The choice is always yours. All we are after is to present it to you 100% DRM-free. We are sure you will make the best choice for yourself, and let others enjoy their own freedom to make choices as well.

So, what is going to happen with classic games then?

Classic content accounts for about 80% of our catalog, so yes, this is a super important topic. We've mentioned here above that we can’t control prices for new games, but we do have a lot of influence when it comes to classic games. GOG.com is the store that made this market visible and viable digitally, and we're the ones who established the prices we charge. We believe that we have a good record to argue for fair pricing with our partners.

So let's talk about the pricing for classics that we're shooting for. For $5.99 classics, we would like to make the games 3.49 GBP, 4.49 EUR, 199 RUB, and $6.49 AUD. For $9.99 classics, our targets are 5.99 GBP, 7.49 EUR, 349 RUB, and $10.99 AUD. This is what we’ve got in mind at the moment. We’ll do our best to make that happen, and we think it will. How? Well, we have made our partners quite happy with GOG.com's sales for years - thanks to you guys :). We have created a global, legal, successful digital distribution market of classics for them. This market didn't exist 5 years ago. By (re)making all those games compatible with modern operating systems for MAC and PC, we've made forgotten games profitable again. When it comes to classic games, we can tell them that we know more about this market than anyone. :) Being retrogaming freaks ourselves, we know that 5.99 EUR or GBP is crazy expensive for a classic game (compared to 5.99 USD). We have always argued that classic games only sell well if they have reasonable prices. Unfair regional pricing equals piracy and that’s the last thing anybody wants.

What’s next?

We will do our very best to make all of the above happen. This means three things:

First, we will work to make our industry go DRM-free in the future for both classic and new games (that’s our mission!).

Second, we will fight hard to have an attractive offer for those AA+ new games for our European, British and Australian users, despite regional pricing that we have to stick to.

Third, we will switch to fair local pricing for classic games, as I mentioned above.

TheEnigmaticT earlier mentioned that he would eat his hat if we ever brought DRM to GOG.com. I'm going to go one step further: by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing as outlined above. If not, we'll set up a record a video of some horrible public shaming for me, TheEnigmaticT, and w0rma. In fact, you know what? Feel free to make suggestions below for something appropriate (but also safe enough that we won't get the video banned on YouTube) so you feel that we're motivated to get this done quickly. I'll pick one that's scary enough from the comments below and we'll let you know which one we're sticking to.

I hope that this explanation has helped ease your worry a bit and help you keep your faith in GOG.com as a place that's different, awesome, and that always fights for what's best for gamers. If you have any questions, comments or ideas, feel free to address them to us below and TheEnigmaticT and I will answer them to the best of our abilities tomorrow. We hear you loud and clear, so please do continue sharing your feedback with us. At the end of the day GOG.com is your place; without you guys it would just be a website where a few crazy people from Europe talk about old games. :)

I end many of my emails with this, but there's rarely a time to use it more appropriately than here:

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
Posted February 25, 2014
the first backbone has fallen: one price.
what will be the next?
Posted February 25, 2014
low rated
I can't believe people are complaining.

HOW MUCH fucking time do you guys have? For $100, you could buy more games on GOG.com than you could play in a year. It's just mindblowing the things that gamers will complain about. Gamers are easily the most entitled, whiny, herbish group of baby cheapskates on the planet. If you think a price is unfair, DON"T PAY IT. So long as the titles here remain DRM-free, all you need to do is see if the game is worth your money, and act accordingly. If sales drop, they'll change.

Who gives a shit if GOG offers new titles? They aren't yanking old titles from their library to make room for them. They're just adding more DRM-free content. HOW IN THE WORLD can you be against DRM-free games being made available in a legitimate way? Are people seriously angry that GOG is offering newer games? WHY?

This letter was unnecessary. The circlejerk of entitlement won't end here, and it's not even worth addressing. Keep up the great work, GOG. I already have more titles than I possibly know what to do with - many of which I paid as little as $1.50 for. This thread made me sick.
Posted February 25, 2014
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goglier: There is one big concern left for me:
As a German, I am frequently affected by censorship, since my beloved government deems us grown-ups too immature to handle a few more red pixels (and a couple of other things) on our screens.
What are your plans regarding this?
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Gydion:
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PaterAlf: Besides that I'm quite disappointed with the letter. No word about our worries that it might come to regional restrictions and censored versions for certain countries and no word about how they will handle gifting and what they will do in case that users hide their real location (will they ban the accounts?).
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Gydion: This. I would like to see this addressed. What about regional censorship/lockouts? Does GOG intend to allow such games in its catalog?
Seconded, announcing regional pricing without telling us what'll happen with the above issues leaves many of us worrying whether we'll still be able to shop at GoG. Am I going to be screwed next time I try and buy birthday presents for my friends via GoG? I may as well just send them money via Paypal and leave them to spend wherever they want, so that's lost sales for GoG on top of me wondering whether to stop supporting a company that's blocking my purchases.

GoG, you can say it's the publishers call all you want, but at the end of the day a lot of us spend money with you in order to show those publishers the service we want and put pressure on them via you. If you're no longer making a stand against regional pricing, you're no longer providing the service some of us want from you. Continuing to buy games through you if you make this change would just send the incorrect message that we're okay with regional pricing.
Posted February 25, 2014
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OldFatGuy: But in this particular case it is an apt analogy, but it happens to be one that makes you uncomfortable, because you don't much like being called out on your selfishness. I will say with utmost confidence that if this change had resulted in you paying more than anyone else on earth for the same games here at GOG that your reaction would be completely different.

So, would you be okay with such a change?
Sure. Maybe a detailed response will get you to up your game a little. Wall of text incoming. tl;dr at bottom.

In your analogy, I've got the best room. We both do, you and I. I want to support the best retailer I have access to, and I do. So I say I'm happy with GOG. There's the personal perspective. Now, since you're on about how I need to see it from someone else's perspective and we're in the same room, I do so. I'm considering what it's like to suddenly be told that a select few of the games I want are going to cost more for me than for anyone else. It doesn't seem fair, so why is this? Now I look beyond the walls of our little building and I can make a decision that you call selfish, but do so with full information and no selfishness in mind. Here's how.

First, is there a reason that this change is being put into place? Sure. There are different costs associated with getting things to different rooms. It's a small difference, but it's one piece of my puzzle. The real world analog is that there are legally binding contracts which require costs to be different at different places. That's not GOG's fault. It used to be better for those in the high price areas, and now it's not. But it's not GOG's fault, and I'm not going to blame them for it.

Second, is there a way you and I (being in the best room) can make the other rooms better? That's a bigger deal than just saying we're going to go back to how we used to do it. We have to find out what the rules are regarding these different rooms, and how they might change the way things are priced. Because there *are* rules to these rooms, and each room has different (sometimes conflicting) rules. It's not all cut from the same cloth, and it's a complicated mess. But when we look at these rules, we discover something: the new way is how the rules say it has to be. That's a *very* unsatisfying answer, but it's also one that we're required to accept. The social contract requires it. The real world analog is simple and again comes back to contracts requiring a price difference. This isn't a law that feels very balanced or fair, but it's not a law GOG made up. It's still not GOG's fault, and there is no remedy they possess to make the laws allow equal pricing everywhere, so I'm not going to blame them for it.

Third, how significant is the effect of this change? Well, the stuff that's always been going back and forth between rooms is going to be pretty well unchanged. The newer, shinier stuff, though? That's a significant change and one worth considering. People in these other rooms are now going to have to pay a lot more for their stuff than they would have before, if they want to get it. It's not necessary stuff, mind you. It's not food or air or something. But it's something they want, so it's a bad change for them. Of course, without this change, they wouldn't even have had the opportunity to get this new shiny stuff. So their market expands a little bit with stuff that they probably won't want but happily don't have to buy. The analog here is that if GOG never had the regional pricing, they couldn't choose to not buy the game; they'd just not have it from GOG. But GOG does have the regional pricing (because of the contract laws I've mentioned twice now) and now they get to elect not to spend their money on these new games. Unless, you know, they value the game more than they value the money it takes to buy it. Good market theory, that.

And finally, I get back to your claim that disagreeing with you on this point makes me selfish. If I hadn't thought about it and was just happy to go about my business, that would make me naive. If I had thought about it and decided that I didn't like other people telling my favorite retailer that they're bad, that would be selfish. If I had thought about it and decided that it's overall a bad thing for the whole and I should try to change things, that would be altruistic. I've not once told someone not to complain about this; in fact on several replies I've agreed that they have good reason to be unhappy. I've not said that the change represents the pinnacle of equality; indeed, it represents the love handles of mediocrity. It's the same average unpleasantness that it seems all the digital distributors have sunk into. But GOG can still be my preferred retailer without my being selfish. What I think you're doing here is confusing "unhappiness with a system of laws" with "unhappiness with a company following laws." I'm *not* happy with the way digital distribution is handled globally. But that's not GOG's fault, I'm not going to blame them for it, and it's not selfish to know that.

Finally, to your point that I would be angry with GOG if suddenly I were paying higher prices than everyone else: not so. I would be unhappy with GOG if they increased my costs and I saw no reason. If prices rise due to inflation, legal requirements, or my winning a lottery and having to pay a lot because I have a lot, I'm not unhappy with GOG. I'm probably angry with the legal infrastructure that made this targetted price increase possible. I'm probably trying to find the root cause and fix it. And if it turns out that GOG is doing this just to make a buck when they could have avoided it, I'm taking my business elsewhere no matter who is paying the highest price. None of that is selfish, and none of that approaches the internet rage that we're seeing seething here.

Your argument is like a mathematician's abstraction of motion, or a physicist explaining that no matter how much your arms hurt, you aren't actually doing any work holding that chair out in front of you. It misses all the really important things going on and looks only at one aspect. I understand it. But you're still wrong to insist that your simplified version of reality is right.

tl;dr - If GOG came up with this idea and nobody else had ever had it, this would be a terrible, terrible thing to do. If GOG pushed to make things unfair for some of their consumers, that would be a terrible, terrible thing. But digital distribution laws and contract laws are a constantly evolving mess and until the international community figures out how to rein in corporate profitmongering and rent-seeking, this sort of problem will continue. It is not selfish to define a problem properly, as long as you don't try to keep the problem going to benefit yourself.
Posted February 25, 2014
why the regional pricing on classic games? is that a demand from one of the publishers you're currently trying to sign for classics? sounds like something bethesda would demand. if it is bethesda, uh, it's not worth it. just stop.
Posted February 25, 2014
I saw you as hero's of the gaming industry, especially when it's becoming increasingly corrupted, but not anymore. I'm guessing there's something going on in the background considering many vendors are starting to do this, including Microsoft when they sent me a message about it on Xbox live, but Microsoft went to shit with all the shady stuff they where trying to pull, so I'm not surprised about them doing this. I on the other hand didn't expect you to go along with this bullshit, and I'm very disappointing along with many others, and we are not unreasonably "worried", we are angry that you have betrayed us, no new games are worth you losing one of your core values, none, than you go on to tell us that this new policy will be applied to ALL games, Yeah, no.

I supported you, bought many games, told my friends and family about you guys, but now I will do the opposite. You really screwed up this time, GOG.
Post edited February 25, 2014 by Krum369
Posted February 25, 2014
So if regional pricing is an artifact of physical games' prices, presumably GOG has plans to rescind these measures in a few years time when everything becomes digital?
Posted February 25, 2014
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Chebwa: I can't believe people are complaining.

HOW MUCH fucking time do you guys have? For $100, you could buy more games on GOG.com than you could play in a year. It's just mindblowing the things that gamers will complain about. Gamers are easily the most entitled, whiny, herbish group of baby cheapskates on the planet. If you think a price is unfair, DON"T PAY IT. So long as the titles here remain DRM-free, all you need to do is see if the game is worth your money, and act accordingly. If sales drop, they'll change.

Who gives a shit if GOG offers new titles? They aren't yanking old titles from their library to make room for them. They're just adding more DRM-free content. HOW IN THE WORLD can you be against DRM-free games being made available in a legitimate way? Are people seriously angry that GOG is offering newer games? WHY?

This letter was unnecessary. The circlejerk of entitlement won't end here, and it's not even worth addressing. Keep up the great work, GOG. I already have more titles than I possibly know what to do with - many of which I paid as little as $1.50 for. This thread made me sick.
Brace yourself, they'll be coming for your bones now :]

But I agree- DRM-free games are the one aspect I hope GOG continues providing.
Posted February 25, 2014
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Chebwa: I can't believe people are complaining.

HOW MUCH fucking time do you guys have? For $100, you could buy more games on GOG.com than you could play in a year. It's just mindblowing the things that gamers will complain about. Gamers are easily the most entitled, whiny, herbish group of baby cheapskates on the planet. If you think a price is unfair, DON"T PAY IT. So long as the titles here remain DRM-free, all you need to do is see if the game is worth your money, and act accordingly. If sales drop, they'll change.

Who gives a shit if GOG offers new titles? They aren't yanking old titles from their library to make room for them. They're just adding more DRM-free content. HOW IN THE WORLD can you be against DRM-free games being made available in a legitimate way? Are people seriously angry that GOG is offering newer games? WHY?

This letter was unnecessary. The circlejerk of entitlement won't end here, and it's not even worth addressing. Keep up the great work, GOG. I already have more titles than I possibly know what to do with - many of which I paid as little as $1.50 for. This thread made me sick.
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cmdr_flashheart: Brace yourself, they'll be coming for your bones now :]

But I agree- DRM-free games are the one aspect I hope GOG continues providing.
lol as soon as I hit "Post my message" I knew I'd thrown myself to the wolves.
Posted February 25, 2014
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Gydion: This. I would like to see this addressed. What about regional censorship/lockouts? Does GOG intend to allow such games in its catalog?
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mthomason: Seconded, announcing regional pricing without telling us what'll happen with the above issues leaves many of us worrying whether we'll still be able to shop at GoG. Am I going to be screwed next time I try and buy birthday presents for my friends via GoG? I may as well just send them money via Paypal and leave them to spend wherever they want, so that's lost sales for GoG on top of me wondering whether to stop supporting a company that's blocking my purchases.

GoG, you can say it's the publishers call all you want, but at the end of the day a lot of us spend money with you in order to show those publishers the service we want and put pressure on them via you. If you're no longer making a stand against regional pricing, you're no longer providing the service some of us want from you. Continuing to buy games through you if you make this change would just send the incorrect message that we're okay with regional pricing.
Hear hear!
Posted February 25, 2014
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SCPM: I'm one of those who wants more, newer games on GOG. It's kind of upsetting for me to see so many AAA, indie, and now even classic games coming exclusively to Steam. GOG, you've done an impressive job till now, so I'm also counting on this gamble paying off. I'm hoping all this is part of plans already in the works, and it's scary not knowing the things you already know about where this will lead, but I do want this to lead to more, bigger games onboard. Now that you've made this concession, I hope you'll press all the companies that've turned you down, companies like Take Two and Zenimax that already have DOSBox games that are technically DRM-free, so that can't be their excuse anymore. So all I have left to say is...

Go get 'em.
This pretty much sums up my take on this.
Posted February 25, 2014
Thanks for the backroundinfos.

I think it would have been wise to give us the info this way from the start instead of

"Hey guys...good news...we gave up the Ideal of one price"

The coreinfo doesn't change but at least it sounds that you had to choose the lesser of two evils.
We will see if it's worth the price ;)


But..dear Gog-Team...you should keep in mind...
If i preorder AoW3...i have to pay 55$ now instead of 40...therefore i wan't buy Basnished and Summoner,
without regional pricing i would buy all three.
So..as far as it counts for me...the ammont of money i can/will spent to buy games is limited and if i have to buy a high price for a single game from a big publisher to get it DRM-free...i have less money to support Indis.
This might create a nasty backlash at the long run...maybe supporting the Indi-Dev that are willing to offer their games DRM-free and for one price would be better at the long run then giving the Big pubs a finger or two...and hope that they change their mind.
Post edited February 25, 2014 by DF1871
Posted February 25, 2014
One question for the GOG management.

What is the point of digital distribution if digital distributors continue to follow antiquated rules that only make sense when doing physical retail?

I would also echo the concerns of others regarding censorship and unfair regional pricing, presumably justified by the idea that boxes must be physically carted all over the planet. I've no objection to newer content... but I am saddened to see yet another digital distributor back off a no oceans pricing policy, and I'm certainly not convinced by this second appeal on the subject. As a customer, I think a simple pricing policy makes a great deal of sense - USD is not my native currency, incidentally, but I have learned that "regional pricing" always seems to involve a substantial markup for which I can find no justification with digital goods.

Make it easy to buy for a fair price and people, myself included, will buy your product(s).

Thank you.
Posted February 25, 2014
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czwarty: We don't want regional pricing, "fair" or not. Internet has no oceans, we want one release date, one price and no regional versions. You fight for DRM-free, fight for these values as well.
I believe GoG want's that as well, but in this day and age of gaming we are living... nearly impossible if not utopic. The corporal bullshit standards like unfair prices, drm and what not is just too messed up and rooted in nowaday gaming, GoG may fight it but this will only stall them couse they will be a white drop in the ocean of black tar... And nobody will join em couse it will mean loss to their corporal money ideals.

They will release probably all there is to release (or close to) in few years concerning old classics, and what will they do then? They need to grow... or wait X amount of years till the game is considered "old enough" to hop on the catalogue or something like that

I respect gog's "legalized piracy" (aka drm free) approach but when it comes to pricing... that's tough boss to slay. We need to find it's weakness... Maybe let the beast eat you and strike from inside it's belly? They just haven't really thought out how hod to strike it, that's why they ask us for help ;)
Post edited February 25, 2014 by nadenitza
Posted February 25, 2014
Looks like the prices they want to implement are fair for the classic titles - Australians are actually doing better than they are under the existing US pricing model.

I'll be curious to see what the pricing models look like for new release blockbusters, but I'm open to this as an idea. After all, if nobody but the US buys a given blockbuster game because everyone else feels ripped off, GOG will be able to take that back to the publisher.

I'm curious to see how this works out.

- The Unshaven
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General discussion (archive)<b>Letter from the M.D.</b>: About Regional Pricing(5517 posts) (5517 posts) 
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