It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Hey Goggers;

As many of you know, we announced on last Friday that we are going to introduce regional pricing for 3 new games coming up on GOG.com soon. Looking at the amount of reactions (over 3,500 comments at this very moment), it is obvious that this change is making many of you guys worried. We must have failed to clearly explain why our pricing policy for (some) newer games will change and what this means as a matter of fact for our PC & MAC classic games, which account for over 80% of our catalogue.

To be honest, our announcement was a bit vague simply because our future pricing policy is not 100% set in stone yet and we were just worried to make any promises before it was. You know, GOG.com has been growing quickly (thanks to you!), and the more we grow, the more we are worried to make some of you guys disappointed. This is why we were so (over-)cautious with our announcement.

We should have just been upfront about why we've made these changes and what they mean for us in the future and what we're planning. So let's talk. To be clear: what I'm talking about below is our plan. It's a plan that we believe we can accomplish, but while it's what we want to do with GOG, it may change some before it actually sees the light of day. Please don’t blame me for talking open-heartedly today and telling you about the plans and pricing policy we want to fight for and eventually achieve. The below plans aren't sure. The only guarantee I can give you is that we’ll do our best to fight for gamers while still making sure GOG.com as a whole grows (because well, we still want to be around 50 years from now, you know!). So, enough for the introduction, let’s get things started.

Why does GOG.com need to offer newer games at all?

We've been in business for 5 years now, and we've signed a big percentage of all of the classic content that can be legally untangled. There are still some big companies left we're trying to bring into the GOG.com fold, like LucasArts, Microsoft, Take2 and Bethesda, but what classic titles will we sign in the future once we have those partners on-board? We need to sign newer games or else just fire everyone and keep selling the same limited catalog. Either we bring you “not so old” releases from 2010+ or brand-new AAA titles, because these will become classic games tomorrow. It’s as simple as that.

Also, well, we want to expand beyond just classic games, hence the fact we have been offering you brand-new indie releases for almost 2 years now. Why expanding? Well, obviously, because the more games we sell, the more legitimacy we have on the market and the more likely it is that we can achieve our mission: making all PC & MAC video games 100% DRM-free, whether classic or brand-new titles.

To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it. It treats legitimate customers like rubbish and pirates don't have to bother with it. It's bad for gamers, and it's also bad for business and our partners. We want to make it easy and convenient for users to buy and play games; rather than give piracy a try. Happy gamers equals a healthy gaming industry; and this is what we fight for. Anyway, I am sure you well know our opinions about DRM.

To make the world of gaming DRM-free, we need to convince top-tier publishers & developers to give us a try with new games, just like they did with classic games. We need to make more case studies for the gaming industry, just like we successfully did back in 2011 with The Witcher 2. It was our first ever 100% DRM-free AAA day-1 release. GOG.com was the 2nd best-selling digital distribution platform worldwide for this title thanks to you guys, despite having regional prices for it. We need more breakthroughs like this to be able to show all the devs and publishers in our industry that DRM-free digital distribution is actually good for their business and their fans. And when I say breakthroughs, I am talking about really kick-ass games, with a potential metacritic score of 85% or more, AA+ and AAA kind of titles.

And this is exactly why we signed those 3 games we told you about last Friday. We believe those 3 games can be massive hits for hardcore gamers, that they can help us spread the DRM-free model among the industry for newer games and we did our best to convince their rights holders to give GOG.com a try. One of those games, as you see already, is Age of Wonders 3. We're planning more titles even beyond these first 3 soon.

Alright, but why is regional pricing needed for those (only 3 so far!) newer games then?

First of all, you have to be aware of an important fact when it comes to newer games: GOG.com cannot really decide what the prices should be. Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops. This will change over time (as digital sales should overtake retail sales in the near future), but as of today, this is still a problem our industry is facing because retail is a big chunk of revenue and there’s nothing GOG.com can do to change that. We need to charge the recommended retail price for the boxed copies of the games in order for developers (or publishers) to either not get sued or at least get their games visible on shelves. You may recall that our sister company CD Projekt RED got sued for that in the past and we don’t want our partners to suffer from that too.

On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.

Getting back to those 3 new upcoming games coming up. The first one is Age of Wonders 3, which you can pre-order right now on GOG.com. The next 2 ones will be Divine Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3. We’re very excited to offer those games DRM-free worldwide and we hope you’ll love them.

Still, we know some countries are really being screwed with regional pricing (Western Europe, UK, Australia) and as mentioned above, we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there.

And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed. In a few years it will become a classic in its own right, and then we have the possibility to to make it flat-priced anyway (read next!) The choice is always yours. All we are after is to present it to you 100% DRM-free. We are sure you will make the best choice for yourself, and let others enjoy their own freedom to make choices as well.

So, what is going to happen with classic games then?

Classic content accounts for about 80% of our catalog, so yes, this is a super important topic. We've mentioned here above that we can’t control prices for new games, but we do have a lot of influence when it comes to classic games. GOG.com is the store that made this market visible and viable digitally, and we're the ones who established the prices we charge. We believe that we have a good record to argue for fair pricing with our partners.

So let's talk about the pricing for classics that we're shooting for. For $5.99 classics, we would like to make the games 3.49 GBP, 4.49 EUR, 199 RUB, and $6.49 AUD. For $9.99 classics, our targets are 5.99 GBP, 7.49 EUR, 349 RUB, and $10.99 AUD. This is what we’ve got in mind at the moment. We’ll do our best to make that happen, and we think it will. How? Well, we have made our partners quite happy with GOG.com's sales for years - thanks to you guys :). We have created a global, legal, successful digital distribution market of classics for them. This market didn't exist 5 years ago. By (re)making all those games compatible with modern operating systems for MAC and PC, we've made forgotten games profitable again. When it comes to classic games, we can tell them that we know more about this market than anyone. :) Being retrogaming freaks ourselves, we know that 5.99 EUR or GBP is crazy expensive for a classic game (compared to 5.99 USD). We have always argued that classic games only sell well if they have reasonable prices. Unfair regional pricing equals piracy and that’s the last thing anybody wants.

What’s next?

We will do our very best to make all of the above happen. This means three things:

First, we will work to make our industry go DRM-free in the future for both classic and new games (that’s our mission!).

Second, we will fight hard to have an attractive offer for those AA+ new games for our European, British and Australian users, despite regional pricing that we have to stick to.

Third, we will switch to fair local pricing for classic games, as I mentioned above.

TheEnigmaticT earlier mentioned that he would eat his hat if we ever brought DRM to GOG.com. I'm going to go one step further: by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing as outlined above. If not, we'll set up a record a video of some horrible public shaming for me, TheEnigmaticT, and w0rma. In fact, you know what? Feel free to make suggestions below for something appropriate (but also safe enough that we won't get the video banned on YouTube) so you feel that we're motivated to get this done quickly. I'll pick one that's scary enough from the comments below and we'll let you know which one we're sticking to.

I hope that this explanation has helped ease your worry a bit and help you keep your faith in GOG.com as a place that's different, awesome, and that always fights for what's best for gamers. If you have any questions, comments or ideas, feel free to address them to us below and TheEnigmaticT and I will answer them to the best of our abilities tomorrow. We hear you loud and clear, so please do continue sharing your feedback with us. At the end of the day GOG.com is your place; without you guys it would just be a website where a few crazy people from Europe talk about old games. :)

I end many of my emails with this, but there's rarely a time to use it more appropriately than here:

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: And why should people who live in the USA get a discount over those that live in Romania?
Did I at any point advocate for such a thing? No. I'm pointing out that 1) There was never an equal price for a game on GOG and 2) People want to have the same monetary value instead of the same worktime value.
And as for foreigners getting cheaper service, I know that I can find cheaper hotels and flights if I book from the UK instead of Greece, even if the hotels and the flights are all in Greece. So blame the publisher (or hotel manager, or flight company) for those discrepancies.
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: And why should people who live in the USA get a discount over those that live in Romania?
avatar
JMich: Did I at any point advocate for such a thing? No. I'm pointing out that 1) There was never an equal price for a game on GOG and 2) People want to have the same monetary value instead of the same worktime value.
And as for foreigners getting cheaper service, I know that I can find cheaper hotels and flights if I book from the UK instead of Greece, even if the hotels and the flights are all in Greece. So blame the publisher (or hotel manager, or flight company) for those discrepancies.
Don't worry, I blame the publisher, but I also blame the people who support this rip-off by selling/buying.
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: I think it actually can be fair in both regards.

If both people with the same purchasing power both really like the game, then $50 is a "a fair price" (a.k.a. "good value for the money") and "a fair price" (a.k.a. both pay the same)

If both people with the same purchasing power both really like the game, then $50 for one and €50 for the other is a "a fair price" (a.k.a. "good value for the money") but not "a fair price" (a.k.a. both pay the same)
Sure, but how do you measure "want"? And how do you take that into account for pricing? (higher "want" and higher disposable income are the two factors that'd increase purchasing power).

Within a given set of restraints (two people with the same disposable income and same want) the prices can be set to "fair", yes. But with the total possible customer base, those restraints are much too narrow, and "complete fairness" is no longer possible.
Post edited March 11, 2014 by Maighstir
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Don't worry, I blame the publisher, but I also blame the people who support this rip-off by selling/buying.
Does this include everyone who bought The Witcher 2 then? And Legend of Grimrock? And any Daedalic Games? Or anyone who buys from HumbleBundle? Or Amazon? Or uses PayPal?
I think it would be faster to tell me who you do not blame...
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: I think it actually can be fair in both regards.

If both people with the same purchasing power both really like the game, then $50 is a "a fair price" (a.k.a. "good value for the money") and "a fair price" (a.k.a. both pay the same)

If both people with the same purchasing power both really like the game, then $50 for one and €50 for the other is a "a fair price" (a.k.a. "good value for the money") but not "a fair price" (a.k.a. both pay the same)
avatar
Maighstir: Sure, but how do you measure "want"? And how do you take that into account for pricing? (higher "want" and higher disposable income are the two factors that'd increase purchasing power).
Since we couldn't really measure "want" in your example, let's just use the same method in my example. ;)

My point is, that even if "want" and "means" are equal, it will still be unfair because of the higher price for one party.

You make it "more unfair" instead of "more fair".
avatar
Maighstir: Sure, but how do you measure "want"? And how do you take that into account for pricing? (higher "want" and higher disposable income are the two factors that'd increase purchasing power).
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Since we couldn't really measure "want" in your example, let's just use the same method in my example. ;)

My point is, that even if "want" and "means" are equal, it will still be unfair because of the higher price for one party.

You make it "more unfair" instead of "more fair".
I'm trying to apply different values of "fair".

Given the restriction that everyone only bought games for themselves (ie. not for trading with others), wouldn't it be "fair" if everyone could buy the same amount of games? (ie. the price was a percentage of their disposable income, rather than a set amount of money)
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Don't worry, I blame the publisher, but I also blame the people who support this rip-off by selling/buying.
avatar
JMich: Does this include everyone who bought The Witcher 2 then? And Legend of Grimrock? And any Daedalic Games? Or anyone who buys from HumbleBundle? Or Amazon? Or uses PayPal?
I think it would be faster to tell me who you do not blame...
Legend of Grimrock has a price of $14.99 on their homepage and $14.99 on GOG.com, so I don't know what you mean.

The Humble Bundle is has a flat price of $0.01 for everyone(Though you can donate more money if you want)

Do PayPal and Amazon sell games with rip-off regional prices?
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Since we couldn't really measure "want" in your example, let's just use the same method in my example. ;)

My point is, that even if "want" and "means" are equal, it will still be unfair because of the higher price for one party.

You make it "more unfair" instead of "more fair".
avatar
Maighstir: I'm trying to apply different values of "fair".

Given the restriction that everyone only bought games for themselves (ie. not for trading with others), wouldn't it be "fair" if everyone could buy the same amount of games? (ie. the price was a percentage of their disposable income, rather than a set amount of money)
I completely agree with you here.

But until such a time comes were this is possible, having a price that is higher for the same product, with the same conditions in the same store is "more unfair".
Post edited March 11, 2014 by Ichwillnichtmehr
avatar
JMich: ... You sure? You mean childless people don't pay more to use public transportation than people with 4+ children? Don't people that are not in the armed forces pay more to use public transportation? Don't people aged between 30-50 pay more than students and/or elderly?
Oh, wait, some groups get a discount, they are not forcing the others to pay more....
Okay, there are exceptions and this is one. I claimed too much. Still for most things it's true.
avatar
hedwards:
avatar
cmdr_flashheart: So what if they're paying USD? The fact remains that they're not in the country which pays the lowest price for the game.
Why should I have to pay more because other people pirate? These are the same games, they're distributed digitally, there's absolutely no reason why people in some regions should be paying less than in others.
avatar
JMich: ... You sure? You mean childless people don't pay more to use public transportation than people with 4+ children? Don't people that are not in the armed forces pay more to use public transportation? Don't people aged between 30-50 pay more than students and/or elderly?
Oh, wait, some groups get a discount, they are not forcing the others to pay more....
avatar
Trilarion: Okay, there are exceptions and this is one. I claimed too much. Still for most things it's true.
True, but by the same token most of those things are either a choice or something that will eventually apply to people that live long enough. There's also usually viable alternative that doesn't discriminate in their pricing as well.

There's also usually at least some veneer of social benefit in that, whereas regional pricing is 100% about greed in the forms that we've seen so far. And GOG isn't really using a form that helps with any real problem.
Post edited March 11, 2014 by hedwards
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Legend of Grimrock has a price of $14.99 on their homepage and $14.99 on GOG.com, so I don't know what you mean.
Legend of Grimrock costs €10.99 in EU2 zone (a bit less than $14.99) but it costs €13.99 in EU zone, while it also costs £11.99 in the UK. Self published as well, so Almost Human supports regional pricing. So does buying from them mean you support regional pricing?

avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: The Humble Bundle is has a flat price of $0.01 for everyone(Though you can donate more money if you want)
Humble Bundle is also part of the Humble Store, which does also use regional pricing. And not all its bundles had a minimum price (minimum isn't flat btw) of $0.01. So again, does buying from Humble mean you support regional pricing?

avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Do PayPal and Amazon sell games with rip-off regional prices?
Paypal uses their own conversion, which does depend on what region you are in. As for Amazon, search for the same item in Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.de and see if the price is the same (hint, it isn't). Amazon also has Amazon Payments, so using Amazon Payments means using Amazon, which does have regional pricing.

So, who do you include in buying/selling regional priced goods?
Thanks gog for listening to all the people and bringing back worldwide flat pricing. Thank you!
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Legend of Grimrock has a price of $14.99 on their homepage and $14.99 on GOG.com, so I don't know what you mean.
avatar
JMich: Legend of Grimrock costs €10.99 in EU2 zone (a bit less than $14.99) but it costs €13.99 in EU zone, while it also costs £11.99 in the UK. Self published as well, so Almost Human supports regional pricing. So does buying from them mean you support regional pricing?
When I go to the Almost Human website, it shows $14.99.

Can you show me where it says €13.99/£11.99 on their website?

avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: The Humble Bundle is has a flat price of $0.01 for everyone(Though you can donate more money if you want)
avatar
JMich: Humble Bundle is also part of the Humble Store, which does also use regional pricing. And not all its bundles had a minimum price (minimum isn't flat btw) of $0.01. So again, does buying from Humble mean you support regional pricing?
If you buy items with regional pricing, yes.

If you buy items with flat pricing, no.

avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Do PayPal and Amazon sell games with rip-off regional prices?
avatar
JMich: Paypal uses their own conversion, which does depend on what region you are in. As for Amazon, search for the same item in Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.de and see if the price is the same (hint, it isn't). Amazon also has Amazon Payments, so using Amazon Payments means using Amazon, which does have regional pricing.

So, who do you include in buying/selling regional priced goods?
Paypal and Amazon payments convert currencies.

When Amazon sells digital products with regional pricing, then I include them.
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: When I go to the Almost Human website, it shows $14.99.

Can you show me where it says €13.99/£11.99 on their website?
Even worse, it doesn't say there are different prices. Links 3 and 5 here use regional pricing. And it is the publisher who decides the price, so Almost Human has regional pricing, even if not at their store.
avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: If you buy items with regional pricing, yes.

If you buy items with flat pricing, no.
So if I buy Age of Wonders 3 on GOG, I support regional pricing. If I buy Master of Magic on GOG, I don't support regional pricing. Gotcha, GOG has nothing to do with regional pricing, it's the specific items that have to do with it.

avatar
Ichwillnichtmehr: Paypal and Amazon payments convert currencies.

When Amazon sells digital products with regional pricing, then I include them.
Amazon Payments doesn't convert currencies. It charges in $ (at least when I used them).

And all 3 Amazon sites mentioned do sell digital products with regional pricing. Example, Might and Magic X in , [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ESNX96M/ref=s9_aas_bw_g367_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-6&pf_rd_r=125QPQ07Q13KY303NKNN&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=469427847&pf_rd_i=2683270031]UK and DE. So if you wish to pick and choose items to say that a store has or has not regional pricing, GOG has regional pricing for some items, and it doesn't for others. So it's the same as Humble Store and Amazon.

So, does buying from GOG mean I support regional pricing or not?
avatar
SirPrimalform: I feel you're missing my point. It seems like GOG will be allowing regional pricing for classics and just pushing for their localised prices. Not that I'm a fan of the localised prices... At least I'm not a fan if they're enforced by region, despite the fact that the proposed UK price is lower than the US price. If it's enforced by region it's still regional pricing. Regional pricing for new new games was something I was willing to compromise on, but across the whole catalogue? Nope.
avatar
JMich: As I said before, I do use 2 descriptions. Regional Pricing to mean the $1=€1 (see The Witcher 2, Age of Wonders 3 etc) and Fair Pricing to describe the $5.99=€4.49. If your objection is that the $5.99 will become €5.99, then it is the same as the complaints that "No more old games will be released" circa 2011 and/or the "No more complete editions will be released" circa Feb 2013. Last I checked, both those fears remained untrue, so I am willing to wait and see which games will be priced regionally and which will be priced "Fairly".

It is your prerogative to leave or stay, but being charged in local currency is not regional pricing. See this page for example.
No, I was not suggesting $5.99 would become €5.99. I was objecting to $5.99=€4.49 on principle because it is regional pricing even if by a negligible amount.

I have seen GOG's recent news post though so that changes things a bit.
avatar
JMich: As I said before, I do use 2 descriptions. Regional Pricing to mean the $1=€1 (see The Witcher 2, Age of Wonders 3 etc) and Fair Pricing to describe the $5.99=€4.49. If your objection is that the $5.99 will become €5.99, then it is the same as the complaints that "No more old games will be released" circa 2011 and/or the "No more complete editions will be released" circa Feb 2013. Last I checked, both those fears remained untrue, so I am willing to wait and see which games will be priced regionally and which will be priced "Fairly".

It is your prerogative to leave or stay, but being charged in local currency is not regional pricing. See this page for example.
avatar
SirPrimalform: No, I was not suggesting $5.99 would become €5.99. I was objecting to $5.99=€4.49 on principle because it is regional pricing even if by a negligible amount.

I have seen GOG's recent news post though so that changes things a bit.
If it's genuinely about convenience, I'd like to see them let people choose to pay the USD price and then they'll know just how important that is. Personally, for a dime, I might not be willing to look into it, but for larger sums, it might well be worthwhile. Plus, you only need to do that every few months.