It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Hey Goggers;

As many of you know, we announced on last Friday that we are going to introduce regional pricing for 3 new games coming up on GOG.com soon. Looking at the amount of reactions (over 3,500 comments at this very moment), it is obvious that this change is making many of you guys worried. We must have failed to clearly explain why our pricing policy for (some) newer games will change and what this means as a matter of fact for our PC & MAC classic games, which account for over 80% of our catalogue.

To be honest, our announcement was a bit vague simply because our future pricing policy is not 100% set in stone yet and we were just worried to make any promises before it was. You know, GOG.com has been growing quickly (thanks to you!), and the more we grow, the more we are worried to make some of you guys disappointed. This is why we were so (over-)cautious with our announcement.

We should have just been upfront about why we've made these changes and what they mean for us in the future and what we're planning. So let's talk. To be clear: what I'm talking about below is our plan. It's a plan that we believe we can accomplish, but while it's what we want to do with GOG, it may change some before it actually sees the light of day. Please don’t blame me for talking open-heartedly today and telling you about the plans and pricing policy we want to fight for and eventually achieve. The below plans aren't sure. The only guarantee I can give you is that we’ll do our best to fight for gamers while still making sure GOG.com as a whole grows (because well, we still want to be around 50 years from now, you know!). So, enough for the introduction, let’s get things started.

Why does GOG.com need to offer newer games at all?

We've been in business for 5 years now, and we've signed a big percentage of all of the classic content that can be legally untangled. There are still some big companies left we're trying to bring into the GOG.com fold, like LucasArts, Microsoft, Take2 and Bethesda, but what classic titles will we sign in the future once we have those partners on-board? We need to sign newer games or else just fire everyone and keep selling the same limited catalog. Either we bring you “not so old” releases from 2010+ or brand-new AAA titles, because these will become classic games tomorrow. It’s as simple as that.

Also, well, we want to expand beyond just classic games, hence the fact we have been offering you brand-new indie releases for almost 2 years now. Why expanding? Well, obviously, because the more games we sell, the more legitimacy we have on the market and the more likely it is that we can achieve our mission: making all PC & MAC video games 100% DRM-free, whether classic or brand-new titles.

To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it. It treats legitimate customers like rubbish and pirates don't have to bother with it. It's bad for gamers, and it's also bad for business and our partners. We want to make it easy and convenient for users to buy and play games; rather than give piracy a try. Happy gamers equals a healthy gaming industry; and this is what we fight for. Anyway, I am sure you well know our opinions about DRM.

To make the world of gaming DRM-free, we need to convince top-tier publishers & developers to give us a try with new games, just like they did with classic games. We need to make more case studies for the gaming industry, just like we successfully did back in 2011 with The Witcher 2. It was our first ever 100% DRM-free AAA day-1 release. GOG.com was the 2nd best-selling digital distribution platform worldwide for this title thanks to you guys, despite having regional prices for it. We need more breakthroughs like this to be able to show all the devs and publishers in our industry that DRM-free digital distribution is actually good for their business and their fans. And when I say breakthroughs, I am talking about really kick-ass games, with a potential metacritic score of 85% or more, AA+ and AAA kind of titles.

And this is exactly why we signed those 3 games we told you about last Friday. We believe those 3 games can be massive hits for hardcore gamers, that they can help us spread the DRM-free model among the industry for newer games and we did our best to convince their rights holders to give GOG.com a try. One of those games, as you see already, is Age of Wonders 3. We're planning more titles even beyond these first 3 soon.

Alright, but why is regional pricing needed for those (only 3 so far!) newer games then?

First of all, you have to be aware of an important fact when it comes to newer games: GOG.com cannot really decide what the prices should be. Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops. This will change over time (as digital sales should overtake retail sales in the near future), but as of today, this is still a problem our industry is facing because retail is a big chunk of revenue and there’s nothing GOG.com can do to change that. We need to charge the recommended retail price for the boxed copies of the games in order for developers (or publishers) to either not get sued or at least get their games visible on shelves. You may recall that our sister company CD Projekt RED got sued for that in the past and we don’t want our partners to suffer from that too.

On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.

Getting back to those 3 new upcoming games coming up. The first one is Age of Wonders 3, which you can pre-order right now on GOG.com. The next 2 ones will be Divine Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3. We’re very excited to offer those games DRM-free worldwide and we hope you’ll love them.

Still, we know some countries are really being screwed with regional pricing (Western Europe, UK, Australia) and as mentioned above, we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there.

And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed. In a few years it will become a classic in its own right, and then we have the possibility to to make it flat-priced anyway (read next!) The choice is always yours. All we are after is to present it to you 100% DRM-free. We are sure you will make the best choice for yourself, and let others enjoy their own freedom to make choices as well.

So, what is going to happen with classic games then?

Classic content accounts for about 80% of our catalog, so yes, this is a super important topic. We've mentioned here above that we can’t control prices for new games, but we do have a lot of influence when it comes to classic games. GOG.com is the store that made this market visible and viable digitally, and we're the ones who established the prices we charge. We believe that we have a good record to argue for fair pricing with our partners.

So let's talk about the pricing for classics that we're shooting for. For $5.99 classics, we would like to make the games 3.49 GBP, 4.49 EUR, 199 RUB, and $6.49 AUD. For $9.99 classics, our targets are 5.99 GBP, 7.49 EUR, 349 RUB, and $10.99 AUD. This is what we’ve got in mind at the moment. We’ll do our best to make that happen, and we think it will. How? Well, we have made our partners quite happy with GOG.com's sales for years - thanks to you guys :). We have created a global, legal, successful digital distribution market of classics for them. This market didn't exist 5 years ago. By (re)making all those games compatible with modern operating systems for MAC and PC, we've made forgotten games profitable again. When it comes to classic games, we can tell them that we know more about this market than anyone. :) Being retrogaming freaks ourselves, we know that 5.99 EUR or GBP is crazy expensive for a classic game (compared to 5.99 USD). We have always argued that classic games only sell well if they have reasonable prices. Unfair regional pricing equals piracy and that’s the last thing anybody wants.

What’s next?

We will do our very best to make all of the above happen. This means three things:

First, we will work to make our industry go DRM-free in the future for both classic and new games (that’s our mission!).

Second, we will fight hard to have an attractive offer for those AA+ new games for our European, British and Australian users, despite regional pricing that we have to stick to.

Third, we will switch to fair local pricing for classic games, as I mentioned above.

TheEnigmaticT earlier mentioned that he would eat his hat if we ever brought DRM to GOG.com. I'm going to go one step further: by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing as outlined above. If not, we'll set up a record a video of some horrible public shaming for me, TheEnigmaticT, and w0rma. In fact, you know what? Feel free to make suggestions below for something appropriate (but also safe enough that we won't get the video banned on YouTube) so you feel that we're motivated to get this done quickly. I'll pick one that's scary enough from the comments below and we'll let you know which one we're sticking to.

I hope that this explanation has helped ease your worry a bit and help you keep your faith in GOG.com as a place that's different, awesome, and that always fights for what's best for gamers. If you have any questions, comments or ideas, feel free to address them to us below and TheEnigmaticT and I will answer them to the best of our abilities tomorrow. We hear you loud and clear, so please do continue sharing your feedback with us. At the end of the day GOG.com is your place; without you guys it would just be a website where a few crazy people from Europe talk about old games. :)

I end many of my emails with this, but there's rarely a time to use it more appropriately than here:

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
avatar
Pidgeot: For the classics, they are in fact already making less money off of European sales (because of VAT) compared to other regions. The change proposed is going to make that difference a few cents smaller, but it's still going to be less profit compared to a sale to the US.
The proposed prices for classics would actually be equal to US price + Vat + some extra money, so they'd make more on those. Either way it remains to be seen what'll happen to classic prices when developers get a say in it. The current suggestion is just them converting their current contracts to $'s.

For new games there's clear profit obviously.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Pheace
Put another way - for the common man:-

"The big boys have our balls in a vice and will assimilate us eventually, with this being the first step via demands made from their monopolistic position."

No-one escapes the Roman Mafia!

...and I'm not talking their small-fry Mafia - as they're simply common thugs. I'm referring to their VERY REAL global trade "Umbrella Corp." Mafia - who run the games industry as well as EVERY other industry.
avatar
ozbonus: How will a user's region be determined and can that region be changed?

I'm an American and I usually make online purchases in USD with an American credit card. Currently I live in Taiwan however, and I will probably live in some other countries eventually. What can I expect to happen in this situation?
You will probably be billed the price for that region since the prices are depending on your IP location when you buy.
avatar
Pidgeot: For the classics, they are in fact already making less money off of European sales (because of VAT) compared to other regions. The change proposed is going to make that difference a few cents smaller, but it's still going to be less profit compared to a sale to the US.
avatar
Pheace: The proposed prices for classics would actually be equal to US price + Vat + some extra money, so they'd make more on those.
No, it wouldn't.

Per http://www.xe.com/, 5.99 USD = 4.35257 EUR and 9.99 USD = 7.25967 EUR. This leaves a difference of, respectively, €0.14 and €0.24 compared to the new prices. (This is using a mid-market rate, actual conversion rates and fees will change the result.)

There are some rules that say European companies with sufficiently high sales must pay VAT to the country the buyer is from, but for simplicity, let's say GOG doesn't sell enough for that.

GOG is legally registered as a company in Cyprus, where the VAT rate is 19%. This means $5.99 titles currently result in approximately €0.69 of VAT, while $9.99 titles are about €1.15. That's how much is being lost right now when comparing the profit of a US sale to a EU sale.

Using the proposed Euro prices, the VAT becomes about €0.72 and €1.20, respectively. That means GOG and the rightsholders will make a whopping €0.11 or €0.19 more than they do now from each European sale. Of those €0.11 and €0.19 cents, GOG themselves get (assuming a standard 30% cut) between €0.03 and €0.06 extra.

Note that they'll still make less money compared to a US sale - about €0.61 and €1.01 less (about €0.18 and €0.30 less for GOG themselves).

The exact difference will vary slightly, depending on currency fluctuations and conversions that take place, but we're still talking about miniscule amounts, and it's still less profit for a EU sale.

And once again, this is just using mid-market rates - it completely ignores any fees you are paying to your bank for international transactions, or any differences in the conversion rate provided by your bank (or Paypal). The differences are so tiny that it doesn't take a lot of that before it can be cheaper for you to pay the Euro price than to pay the USD price.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Pidgeot
avatar
Pidgeot: ... For the classics, they are in fact already making less money off of European sales (because of VAT) compared to other regions. The change proposed is going to make that difference a few cents smaller, but it's still going to be less profit compared to a sale to the US. ...
For the classics that's true but for the AoW3 pre-order it's the other way around, there it's more profit from a unit sold in western europe. However Switzerland is gaining there most because they have VAT and the cheap prices - lucky guys them.

But then I'm not sure how much VAT GOG really pays. Somewhere earlier in this thread I posted my billing information from Amazon.co.uk for my last order. It was impossible to directly match the given VAT part to any rate of any of the participating countries. International taxation law must be close to wizardry.

Excerpt from amazon:
Item Subtotal: £43.41
Delivery & Handling: £3.72
Total before VAT: £47.13
VAT: £8.00
Total: £55.13
Paid by Visa: £55.13

It's never 19% or 20% as it should be. It actually seems like a flat rate (being £8.00).

It's all pretty complicated. The most clean solution would probably to convert the currencies first, then add local taxes, then round to the next .x9 and be done with it.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Trilarion
avatar
ozbonus: How will a user's region be determined and can that region be changed?

I'm an American and I usually make online purchases in USD with an American credit card. Currently I live in Taiwan however, and I will probably live in some other countries eventually. What can I expect to happen in this situation?
avatar
Matruchus: You will probably be billed the price for that region since the prices are depending on your IP location when you buy.
Wrong. At least, so far. GOG stated they are not -- and will not be -- using IP geolocation, and instead, you set your location in your profile.

Too lazy to find that post.
avatar
Pidgeot: ... For the classics, they are in fact already making less money off of European sales (because of VAT) compared to other regions. The change proposed is going to make that difference a few cents smaller, but it's still going to be less profit compared to a sale to the US. ...
avatar
Trilarion: For the classics that's true but for the AoW3 pre-order it's the other way around, there it's more profit from a unit sold in western europe. However Switzerland is gaining there most because they have VAT and the cheap prices - lucky guys them.

But then I'm not sure how much VAT GOG really pays.
I'm not talking about AoW3. The reason for that price is dictated by entirely different rules (the same rules that applied to The Witcher 2 pre-orders).

With the differences we're dealing with for the classic titles, you need a VAT rate of about 3% to actually make more money with the proposed prices (given the exchange rates I used for those calculations). The only places with such a low VAT are places without any VAT (and GOG is not located in any of those places).
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Pidgeot
avatar
Matruchus: You will probably be billed the price for that region since the prices are depending on your IP location when you buy.
avatar
CheeseshireCat: Wrong. At least, so far. GOG stated they are not -- and will not be -- using IP geolocation, and instead, you set your location in your profile.

Too lazy to find that post.
Please do find it. They started using GeoIP to enforce regional pricing for The Witcher 2 (because they got in legal trouble with the retail publisher when the user-selected country set the price). Of course, that game has since entered global pricing.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Maighstir
avatar
CheeseshireCat: Wrong. At least, so far. GOG stated they are not -- and will not be -- using IP geolocation, and instead, you set your location in your profile.

Too lazy to find that post.
avatar
Maighstir: Please do find it. They started using GeoIP to enforce regional pricing for The Witcher 2 (because they got in legal trouble with the retail publisher when the user-selected country set the price). Of course, that game has since entered global pricing.
Yeah, same goes for "Age of Bullshits 3", just checked by putting myself in the US: price is still 40€.
avatar
Pidgeot: ...I'm not talking about AoW3. ...
Sure and I agreed with you. But I'm also talking about AoW3. Even if the rules are different I'm only interested in the outcome. And I still think that the most clean solution would probably be to convert the currencies first, then add local taxes, then round to the next .x9 and be done with it.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Trilarion
avatar
mobutu: I'm sorry but I cant read your (always) endless walls of text.
Eventually make a tdlr the end, otherwise I strongly believe that 99.9% of readers will just skip your posts.
avatar
skeletonbow: Actually, I've received a quite significant amount of encouraging positive feedback from my opinions and thoughts both publicly and privately from people who appreciate my opinion and articulation however, so I'll continue to comment on things in a manner I think some people will find valuable as I consider appropriate. Please feel free to skip over my posts if they're not interesting to you however, there is no sense wasting your time on things you find uninteresting. Thanks for the feedback.
I hope you will continue to post here, especially because I disagree with you.
avatar
CheeseshireCat: Sorry, the only way to do /what/ exactly? /Say/ that they are applying those prices? Because they certainly don't /apply/ those prices. They just apply some arbitrary $X.99 price that is relatively close. Maybe the same one as US -- can't check.
avatar
Pidgeot: The only way to:
A) Apply different, specific prices to different regions (599 RUB in your case)
B) Charge in USD
C) Not use live currency rates
D) Apply the $X.99 rounding that exists for nearly every single price anywhere in the world

A) is required for AoW3 to be here in the first place, B) is a site limitation (that they acknowledge, and will be fixing in the upcoming site update), C) is a deliberate design choice to prevent constant fluctuations (and the site probably can't handle it anyway), D) is ultimately a cheap marketing trick, but it's being used by everyone for everything, and currency exchange rates fluctuate enough that the price was almost surely 100% accurate at some point in the past week or two(using mid-market rates, since actual exchange rates depend entirely on the institution performing the conversion - that is, GOG cannot control that). For Russia, that moment was most recently Feburary 18, 11:00 UTC.

If you have a better solution that takes all these criteria into account - tell us what that solution is, please. Yes, you can easily argue GOG should have prepared a lot better for this, but sometimes, you have to work with what you have - and this is what they have.
I don't believe A being required is true. Moreover, I don't believe it being just /announced/ but not /done/ satisfies that criteria. So my solution would be

I don't see how C is necessary. Working with payment systems (Visa, MC, AmEx) all the time as part of my job and with PayPal on personal and personal business, I know that it is pretty easy to actually charge in the currency of the buyer.

Also, xe isn't really any kind of an authoritative resource on market rates. Especially at the time when the exchange rate for a particular currency (RUB) goes ping-pong with -- during last month -- 7% variance.

So my solution would have been either to actually announce and show only the actual prices charged (i.e., dollar amounts -- I am 100% sure reaching that deal with developers/publishers would have been possible because there are lots of other places which do so, or even allow YOU to choose what currency to be charged in) or to implement the mechanism for charging in the currency they announce.
avatar
CheeseshireCat: Wrong. At least, so far. GOG stated they are not -- and will not be -- using IP geolocation, and instead, you set your location in your profile.

Too lazy to find that post.
avatar
Maighstir: Please do find it. They started using GeoIP to enforce regional pricing for The Witcher 2 (because they got in legal trouble with the retail publisher when the user-selected country set the price). Of course, that game has since entered global pricing.
http://www.gog.com/news/gog_updates_privacy_policy_will_no_longer_use_geo_ip_to_determine_your_region
Post edited March 04, 2014 by CheeseshireCat
Well, I support the decision to move in this direction. 2 things stand out to me. First, the issue appears to me to be public price fixing by the devs/publishers. Maybe they found a loophole because the dev/publisher is the one setting the price... but I don't see the difference in that and what true competitors aren't supposed to do. (Maybe they should play that quest in Oblivion again?). If agreeing to the dev/publisher pricing brings games to GOG, DRM-free... then Bring it! ;) If I'm going to get upset at anyone in this, its going to be the ones setting the pricing... and, as always, I won't buy the game, which is equally priced everywhere, if I have a problem.

Second... people are used to buying 6 games for a penny. No amount of logic is going to convince them that a price hike is a good or acceptable thing. Keep behaving as a customer friendly, DRM-free distributor, and you will make your sales. (IMHO).
avatar
Maighstir: Please do find it. They started using GeoIP to enforce regional pricing for The Witcher 2 (because they got in legal trouble with the retail publisher when the user-selected country set the price). Of course, that game has since entered global pricing.
avatar
CheeseshireCat: http://www.gog.com/news/gog_updates_privacy_policy_will_no_longer_use_geo_ip_to_determine_your_region
Thank you. However, as stated, GeoIP has already been used after that news post - namely in the case regarding The Witcher 2 - which effectively makes it void. The news post was apparently posted in May 2011, and The Witcher 2 was released almost a year later, in April 2012.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Maighstir
avatar
mobutu: ...I strongly believe that 99.9% of readers will just skip your posts.
avatar
skeletonbow: Actually, I've received a quite significant amount of encouraging positive feedback from my opinions and thoughts...
I just want to give positive feedback. In general I won't read very long texts, but I found your comments quite clear and understandable. So keep on posting as long as you like, please.