It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Hey Goggers;

As many of you know, we announced on last Friday that we are going to introduce regional pricing for 3 new games coming up on GOG.com soon. Looking at the amount of reactions (over 3,500 comments at this very moment), it is obvious that this change is making many of you guys worried. We must have failed to clearly explain why our pricing policy for (some) newer games will change and what this means as a matter of fact for our PC & MAC classic games, which account for over 80% of our catalogue.

To be honest, our announcement was a bit vague simply because our future pricing policy is not 100% set in stone yet and we were just worried to make any promises before it was. You know, GOG.com has been growing quickly (thanks to you!), and the more we grow, the more we are worried to make some of you guys disappointed. This is why we were so (over-)cautious with our announcement.

We should have just been upfront about why we've made these changes and what they mean for us in the future and what we're planning. So let's talk. To be clear: what I'm talking about below is our plan. It's a plan that we believe we can accomplish, but while it's what we want to do with GOG, it may change some before it actually sees the light of day. Please don’t blame me for talking open-heartedly today and telling you about the plans and pricing policy we want to fight for and eventually achieve. The below plans aren't sure. The only guarantee I can give you is that we’ll do our best to fight for gamers while still making sure GOG.com as a whole grows (because well, we still want to be around 50 years from now, you know!). So, enough for the introduction, let’s get things started.

Why does GOG.com need to offer newer games at all?

We've been in business for 5 years now, and we've signed a big percentage of all of the classic content that can be legally untangled. There are still some big companies left we're trying to bring into the GOG.com fold, like LucasArts, Microsoft, Take2 and Bethesda, but what classic titles will we sign in the future once we have those partners on-board? We need to sign newer games or else just fire everyone and keep selling the same limited catalog. Either we bring you “not so old” releases from 2010+ or brand-new AAA titles, because these will become classic games tomorrow. It’s as simple as that.

Also, well, we want to expand beyond just classic games, hence the fact we have been offering you brand-new indie releases for almost 2 years now. Why expanding? Well, obviously, because the more games we sell, the more legitimacy we have on the market and the more likely it is that we can achieve our mission: making all PC & MAC video games 100% DRM-free, whether classic or brand-new titles.

To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it. It treats legitimate customers like rubbish and pirates don't have to bother with it. It's bad for gamers, and it's also bad for business and our partners. We want to make it easy and convenient for users to buy and play games; rather than give piracy a try. Happy gamers equals a healthy gaming industry; and this is what we fight for. Anyway, I am sure you well know our opinions about DRM.

To make the world of gaming DRM-free, we need to convince top-tier publishers & developers to give us a try with new games, just like they did with classic games. We need to make more case studies for the gaming industry, just like we successfully did back in 2011 with The Witcher 2. It was our first ever 100% DRM-free AAA day-1 release. GOG.com was the 2nd best-selling digital distribution platform worldwide for this title thanks to you guys, despite having regional prices for it. We need more breakthroughs like this to be able to show all the devs and publishers in our industry that DRM-free digital distribution is actually good for their business and their fans. And when I say breakthroughs, I am talking about really kick-ass games, with a potential metacritic score of 85% or more, AA+ and AAA kind of titles.

And this is exactly why we signed those 3 games we told you about last Friday. We believe those 3 games can be massive hits for hardcore gamers, that they can help us spread the DRM-free model among the industry for newer games and we did our best to convince their rights holders to give GOG.com a try. One of those games, as you see already, is Age of Wonders 3. We're planning more titles even beyond these first 3 soon.

Alright, but why is regional pricing needed for those (only 3 so far!) newer games then?

First of all, you have to be aware of an important fact when it comes to newer games: GOG.com cannot really decide what the prices should be. Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops. This will change over time (as digital sales should overtake retail sales in the near future), but as of today, this is still a problem our industry is facing because retail is a big chunk of revenue and there’s nothing GOG.com can do to change that. We need to charge the recommended retail price for the boxed copies of the games in order for developers (or publishers) to either not get sued or at least get their games visible on shelves. You may recall that our sister company CD Projekt RED got sued for that in the past and we don’t want our partners to suffer from that too.

On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.

Getting back to those 3 new upcoming games coming up. The first one is Age of Wonders 3, which you can pre-order right now on GOG.com. The next 2 ones will be Divine Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3. We’re very excited to offer those games DRM-free worldwide and we hope you’ll love them.

Still, we know some countries are really being screwed with regional pricing (Western Europe, UK, Australia) and as mentioned above, we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there.

And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed. In a few years it will become a classic in its own right, and then we have the possibility to to make it flat-priced anyway (read next!) The choice is always yours. All we are after is to present it to you 100% DRM-free. We are sure you will make the best choice for yourself, and let others enjoy their own freedom to make choices as well.

So, what is going to happen with classic games then?

Classic content accounts for about 80% of our catalog, so yes, this is a super important topic. We've mentioned here above that we can’t control prices for new games, but we do have a lot of influence when it comes to classic games. GOG.com is the store that made this market visible and viable digitally, and we're the ones who established the prices we charge. We believe that we have a good record to argue for fair pricing with our partners.

So let's talk about the pricing for classics that we're shooting for. For $5.99 classics, we would like to make the games 3.49 GBP, 4.49 EUR, 199 RUB, and $6.49 AUD. For $9.99 classics, our targets are 5.99 GBP, 7.49 EUR, 349 RUB, and $10.99 AUD. This is what we’ve got in mind at the moment. We’ll do our best to make that happen, and we think it will. How? Well, we have made our partners quite happy with GOG.com's sales for years - thanks to you guys :). We have created a global, legal, successful digital distribution market of classics for them. This market didn't exist 5 years ago. By (re)making all those games compatible with modern operating systems for MAC and PC, we've made forgotten games profitable again. When it comes to classic games, we can tell them that we know more about this market than anyone. :) Being retrogaming freaks ourselves, we know that 5.99 EUR or GBP is crazy expensive for a classic game (compared to 5.99 USD). We have always argued that classic games only sell well if they have reasonable prices. Unfair regional pricing equals piracy and that’s the last thing anybody wants.

What’s next?

We will do our very best to make all of the above happen. This means three things:

First, we will work to make our industry go DRM-free in the future for both classic and new games (that’s our mission!).

Second, we will fight hard to have an attractive offer for those AA+ new games for our European, British and Australian users, despite regional pricing that we have to stick to.

Third, we will switch to fair local pricing for classic games, as I mentioned above.

TheEnigmaticT earlier mentioned that he would eat his hat if we ever brought DRM to GOG.com. I'm going to go one step further: by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing as outlined above. If not, we'll set up a record a video of some horrible public shaming for me, TheEnigmaticT, and w0rma. In fact, you know what? Feel free to make suggestions below for something appropriate (but also safe enough that we won't get the video banned on YouTube) so you feel that we're motivated to get this done quickly. I'll pick one that's scary enough from the comments below and we'll let you know which one we're sticking to.

I hope that this explanation has helped ease your worry a bit and help you keep your faith in GOG.com as a place that's different, awesome, and that always fights for what's best for gamers. If you have any questions, comments or ideas, feel free to address them to us below and TheEnigmaticT and I will answer them to the best of our abilities tomorrow. We hear you loud and clear, so please do continue sharing your feedback with us. At the end of the day GOG.com is your place; without you guys it would just be a website where a few crazy people from Europe talk about old games. :)

I end many of my emails with this, but there's rarely a time to use it more appropriately than here:

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
avatar
Wishbone: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. So I take it that's an official statement that Russian users are henceforth banned from making giveaways?
avatar
Somethingfake: Are you intentionally trying to misunderstand/put words in his mouth? Nobody said anything about banning.
No, I'm trying to extrapolate what their official policy will be from the extremely limited information he is giving us. He said selling a key from Russia was against the Terms of Use, I'm trying to find out exactly how far that goes. Do you find my style of inquiry too confrontational? Fine, I'll rephrase the question.

TET, giveaways have flourished on the forum so far. They weren't a problem for GOG, because everybody paid the same for the gift codes. Now that will change. Surely, if someone from Russia buys a gift code for, for example AOW3, and gives it to someone from the EU, you suddenly stand to lose quite a bit of cash. How do you intend to deal with gifting in the future?
avatar
blotunga: So basically we won't see any games using blink? But wait even HOMM2 used it, I clearly remember it.
HOMM2 is a DOS game unless I'm mistaken.
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: We have discussed the regional prices with all of our publishers and tried to find the prices that are fairest for everyone. What you see for any game we release with regional pricing is the result of that negotiation.

snip
Isn't that in contradiction to what you said earlier?
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: snip
For some new games (those which are regionally priced in other stores) we will be charging the same amount here on GOG.com that you'd be charged anywhere else in the world.

snip
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: snip

I've been sitting here in the office for 5 hours answering questions. I'd say the answers you are looking for have arrived.

snip
Ok then, I guess that the questions that were asked early on will go unanswered.
avatar
blotunga: So basically we won't see any games using blink? But wait even HOMM2 used it, I clearly remember it.
avatar
skeletonbow: HOMM2 is a DOS game unless I'm mistaken.
It had a Windows version too.
Thank you for taking the time to help us understand. As I live in Canada, regional prices don't affect me in the least, but I can understand why people in Europe are upset. However, it is pointless to blame a distribution company because they must charge more money in some areas than others. Is it unfair? Absolutely. But as awesome as GoG is, they cannot radically change the entire worldwide economy just to help us out. GoG is not a charity, they are a for-profit business, albeit a rare one that actually gives a shit about their customers. For all the joy they have brought into my life since I became a member a few years back, I don't begrudge them the need to survive. That's what this is: survival. They can't survive if they don't turn a profit, and they can't do that if they expect their suppliers to take a 25% hit just to keep us happy. We just need to tighten our belts and deal with it, or as they said, just WAIT. Nobody is saying you absolutely must have this game right now, or you will implode. Just wait for the inevitable discount, and if you like, sit back, point at all us poor saps who paid full price, and laugh your ass off.
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: Mechwarrior is actually weirder than that. Microsoft made MW 3 & 4, I think, but not one of the expansions. Activison makes MW, MW2, MW2: Ghost Bear's Legacy, and MW2: Mercenaries. I believe the IP for "BattleTech" itself now lies in the hands of WizKids. I think MW2 uses the Bink video codec, which was under license and is no longer actually legally allowed in the game and also doesn't work in any modern Windows OS...and so on.

I looked into Mechwarrior because it's my personal favorite series, and I wanted to see how hard to get it would be for GOG. This gives you an idea what I mean when I say the rights are completely hosed. Imagine this for every single game on my list above.
avatar
Cavalary: Random idea (that I'm sure will may lawyers tie their underwear in knots through sheer mental strain, but anyway):
1. Ask around for the rights of an older game that isn't sold anywhere else. (Because if it is, somebody'll know who has the rights, right?)
2. Nobody seems to have them, or not enough to be able to negotiate them with you.
3. Put out a message that whoever can prove they have the rights will get their part of the revenue, release it for $9.99 and put aside 70% (I believe that was the usual dev's share?) from any revenue from it.
4. Whoever sues you over it and wins, proving they're the rights holder, gets the money, and you know who to negotiate with from then on. Whoever loses, well, loses.
What an awesome business strategy, steal something you don't own and sell it and wait to get sued so you can negotiate terms and conditions with the rights owner. Brilliant! I bet that would make a company super profitable real fast.
avatar
Wishbone: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. So I take it that's an official statement that Russian users are henceforth banned from making giveaways?
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: No, not really. Russian users are, what, 15% of the market? The regional price they have is also much less than the rest of the worldf. The kind of market-distorting effects required to have Russia spontaneously outsell the rest of the world by a factor of some 3 to 1 aren't going to happen organically by some people going giveaways in the forums.

If some website sells 50,000 codes for Age of Wonders 3 on GOG.com, yeah, then we have problems. Even if in a spirit of generosity brought on by love of their fellow man in the wake of the Olympics we see dozens of Russian codes being distributed, it would pretty much sink into the statistical noise. You seem to be underestimating the kind of tomfoolery that is required for this to be an issue.
No, I just have no way of estimating what you consider an issue. But that answer was fine, thank you.
If you need me to pay high prices in euro for preorder bonuses in order to "convince top-tier publishers & developers", then I am sorry GOG, I will not help you.

Good luck with your fresh new games sold for 30 euro, but feel free to let me know when you'll release some real classics for 10 bucks - I will buy those with pleasure.
Post edited February 28, 2014 by Sashh
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: Okay, y'all. It's 7.30 here, and I've been at this for a touch under 6 hours. I'm pretty much done for the night, because the monthly company party is going on and I promised Judas that I'd teach him how to juggle flaming chainsaws.

Thanks for talking, I hope I answered the most pressing of your questions, and I'll check back in on Monday--or possibly earlier, although I make no promises--to see if there is anything I've left unanswered that I actually know the answers to.

EDIT: I don't know how to juggle, but Judas doesn't know that. I think I'll let him go first. >.>
Nothing you could answer as far as I'm concerned, only relevant thing would be to go back on this and return the flat price principle. Do rather feel sorry for you for being tasked to deal with the fallout of a decision that likely wasn't yours to make though.

(Well, there was that part about setting currency in profile instead of at checkout or in gamecard (at least between USD, EUR and local, if different from either and available) and making a direct dynamic conversion to that if not USD, which would turn the "local pricing" into a good thing and no longer violate the flat price principle. But since you're opposed to that anyway and it won't change the dropping of the principle for those newer releases anyway, doesn't make a real difference from where I'm standing.)
avatar
DarthCruciare: Thank you for taking the time to help us understand. As I live in Canada, regional prices don't affect me in the least, but I can understand why people in Europe are upset. However, it is pointless to blame a distribution company because they must charge more money in some areas than others. Is it unfair? Absolutely. But as awesome as GoG is, they cannot radically change the entire worldwide economy just to help us out. GoG is not a charity, they are a for-profit business, albeit a rare one that actually gives a shit about their customers. For all the joy they have brought into my life since I became a member a few years back, I don't begrudge them the need to survive. That's what this is: survival. They can't survive if they don't turn a profit, and they can't do that if they expect their suppliers to take a 25% hit just to keep us happy. We just need to tighten our belts and deal with it, or as they said, just WAIT. Nobody is saying you absolutely must have this game right now, or you will implode. Just wait for the inevitable discount, and if you like, sit back, point at all us poor saps who paid full price, and laugh your ass off.
That still does not help because of regional pricing even with discounts from the sales we would still have to pay about 37% more than most of the world since the base price is already increased so even with sales we have an unfair price. I can expect that from steam but not gog.
Post edited February 28, 2014 by Matruchus
avatar
DrYaboll: It would be better for the users to keep the prices in USD.

As you've mentioned, the main argument in favour of regional prices [from the user's perspective] is avoiding the conversion fee, which in these cases is invalid, as we'd have to pay in a foreign currency anyway.

So that's a conversion fee on top of a higher price.
avatar
Matruchus: There is no conversion fee when paying with paypal god dammit. I know gog has to pay processing fees and that is probably why they are going for "fair regional pricing" thing.
I am unwilling to create a new PP account (unless I really need it to buy sth. eg. from Ebay) after they basicly blocked my account by asking details of an expired credit card to which I no longer have access.

Also:

There is no currency conversion for transactions where you:

Send a payment using a funding source in the same currency
Receive a payment in a currency for which you hold a balance (you do not need to have funds in the currency balance)
Withdraw funds in local currency to your local bank account
I guess you are referring to the first case. Well, it would not be the same currency - the price would be either in $ / €, and I'd be paying in PLN, the currency would not be the same.

Also, some credit cards have problems when dealing with PayPal. Yes, I know that you can make a bank transfer - these however are not instantaneous, which could cost me missing a sale (unless the wallet was funded beforehand).
Post edited February 28, 2014 by DrYaboll
avatar
skeletonbow: What an awesome business strategy, steal something you don't own and sell it and wait to get sued so you can negotiate terms and conditions with the rights owner. Brilliant! I bet that would make a company super profitable real fast.
Hehe, Cavalary is not the first to put forth that particular proposal. It has been suggested many times over the years, usually in jest, and borne out of frustration over the fact that for some classic old games, nobody knows who actually owns the rights.

Of course it is not practical due to the incurred legal fees, but one cannot help but think that if it was actually done, whoever did own the rights would surface like a cork in water. Sadly, in such cases nothing seems to happen until money is on the line.
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: 2. That's problematic as I've mentioned in other posts. This would mean that the price for every game in the catalog would change every day. Also, we would be unable to advertise anywhere, send emails on the weekend to tell you what's on sale, or even post prices in sales to social media. It also means that anyone who comes to GOG.com will be unsure what price he or she will be asked to pay today, and in general results in a bad experience for the end users. For the majority of people who use any website, complicating the checkout process is a surefire way to make them not want to buy.
But it's the only way if GOG actually wants to maintain flat pricing with multiple currencies (which apparently it doesn't). Since this "fair" regional pricing is supposedly about making things easier for the user rather than charging different regions different amounts, why not allow users to pick their region for the "flat price" games?

Obviously you're not going to let them do that for the unevenly regionally priced games because it would bypass the entire reason for regionally pricing them. I can see no justification for forcing localised prices on users with regards to the supposedly fairly priced classics though.

I hope you can offer your take on this even though you can't make promises.

I can put up with regionally priced new games in the store (however I won't be buying any of them - not unless they move to a flat price), but if I am forced into a region for the whole store then there'll be nothing left for me to buy. Let us choose our currency for the classics and I can live with it.
Post edited February 28, 2014 by SirPrimalform
avatar
CarrionCrow: Eye of the beholder franchise
Blade Runner
No One Lives Forever
Aliens vs. Predator 1+2
Emperor of the Fading Suns
Heavy gear
Mechwarrior games
The Wheel of Time

Gotta love grim realities of a situation. 8 names listed as 31 flavors of screwed, and personally interested in 5 of 'em.
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: Yeah. It's sad. :(

Life is easy. Then the lawyers get involved. >.>
And that's exactly why (as I wrote earlier in my lengthy post) the software market is flawed-by-design. There is no law in any civilized world that can prevent you from buying stuff (hammers, cars, dishwashers...) from producer and selling it in your store (of course law can impose additional restriction on you based on general kind of stuff you sell, but it's not tied to a specific product, just to a specific kind of product - you might have to install a cooler in your shop if you want to sell dairy products).

But here - someone has "the rights" and he can just show you the finger. And because of how software "selling" is organized, everybody loses.
avatar
silentbob1138: Well, we feel that way because you did make a decision that is not good for the vast majority of us.
And regional pricing has not only meant unfair pricing in the past. It still means unfair pricing. That is very much evident from the list with prices in different countries for Age of Wonders 3. Actually I think merely calling it unfair might be true for some affected countries. For the African, South American and Eastern European countries that have to pay 37,5% more it is not just unfair! it is downright immoral.
avatar
Magnitus: Flat pricing is definitely unfair to some. Regional pricing has the potential of being unfair for others.

If you cared deeply about fairness, you'd argue for fair regional pricing.
Feel free to dig up all my previous posts. I'm fairly certain that I mentioned that I wouldn't mind a worldwide flat price with different VAT added or truly fair regional pricing. And if you read the post you quoted, you'll see that I specifically pointed out the extra unfairness for people in Africa, South America and Eastern Europe.