It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Hey Goggers;

As many of you know, we announced on last Friday that we are going to introduce regional pricing for 3 new games coming up on GOG.com soon. Looking at the amount of reactions (over 3,500 comments at this very moment), it is obvious that this change is making many of you guys worried. We must have failed to clearly explain why our pricing policy for (some) newer games will change and what this means as a matter of fact for our PC & MAC classic games, which account for over 80% of our catalogue.

To be honest, our announcement was a bit vague simply because our future pricing policy is not 100% set in stone yet and we were just worried to make any promises before it was. You know, GOG.com has been growing quickly (thanks to you!), and the more we grow, the more we are worried to make some of you guys disappointed. This is why we were so (over-)cautious with our announcement.

We should have just been upfront about why we've made these changes and what they mean for us in the future and what we're planning. So let's talk. To be clear: what I'm talking about below is our plan. It's a plan that we believe we can accomplish, but while it's what we want to do with GOG, it may change some before it actually sees the light of day. Please don’t blame me for talking open-heartedly today and telling you about the plans and pricing policy we want to fight for and eventually achieve. The below plans aren't sure. The only guarantee I can give you is that we’ll do our best to fight for gamers while still making sure GOG.com as a whole grows (because well, we still want to be around 50 years from now, you know!). So, enough for the introduction, let’s get things started.

Why does GOG.com need to offer newer games at all?

We've been in business for 5 years now, and we've signed a big percentage of all of the classic content that can be legally untangled. There are still some big companies left we're trying to bring into the GOG.com fold, like LucasArts, Microsoft, Take2 and Bethesda, but what classic titles will we sign in the future once we have those partners on-board? We need to sign newer games or else just fire everyone and keep selling the same limited catalog. Either we bring you “not so old” releases from 2010+ or brand-new AAA titles, because these will become classic games tomorrow. It’s as simple as that.

Also, well, we want to expand beyond just classic games, hence the fact we have been offering you brand-new indie releases for almost 2 years now. Why expanding? Well, obviously, because the more games we sell, the more legitimacy we have on the market and the more likely it is that we can achieve our mission: making all PC & MAC video games 100% DRM-free, whether classic or brand-new titles.

To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it. It treats legitimate customers like rubbish and pirates don't have to bother with it. It's bad for gamers, and it's also bad for business and our partners. We want to make it easy and convenient for users to buy and play games; rather than give piracy a try. Happy gamers equals a healthy gaming industry; and this is what we fight for. Anyway, I am sure you well know our opinions about DRM.

To make the world of gaming DRM-free, we need to convince top-tier publishers & developers to give us a try with new games, just like they did with classic games. We need to make more case studies for the gaming industry, just like we successfully did back in 2011 with The Witcher 2. It was our first ever 100% DRM-free AAA day-1 release. GOG.com was the 2nd best-selling digital distribution platform worldwide for this title thanks to you guys, despite having regional prices for it. We need more breakthroughs like this to be able to show all the devs and publishers in our industry that DRM-free digital distribution is actually good for their business and their fans. And when I say breakthroughs, I am talking about really kick-ass games, with a potential metacritic score of 85% or more, AA+ and AAA kind of titles.

And this is exactly why we signed those 3 games we told you about last Friday. We believe those 3 games can be massive hits for hardcore gamers, that they can help us spread the DRM-free model among the industry for newer games and we did our best to convince their rights holders to give GOG.com a try. One of those games, as you see already, is Age of Wonders 3. We're planning more titles even beyond these first 3 soon.

Alright, but why is regional pricing needed for those (only 3 so far!) newer games then?

First of all, you have to be aware of an important fact when it comes to newer games: GOG.com cannot really decide what the prices should be. Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops. This will change over time (as digital sales should overtake retail sales in the near future), but as of today, this is still a problem our industry is facing because retail is a big chunk of revenue and there’s nothing GOG.com can do to change that. We need to charge the recommended retail price for the boxed copies of the games in order for developers (or publishers) to either not get sued or at least get their games visible on shelves. You may recall that our sister company CD Projekt RED got sued for that in the past and we don’t want our partners to suffer from that too.

On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.

Getting back to those 3 new upcoming games coming up. The first one is Age of Wonders 3, which you can pre-order right now on GOG.com. The next 2 ones will be Divine Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3. We’re very excited to offer those games DRM-free worldwide and we hope you’ll love them.

Still, we know some countries are really being screwed with regional pricing (Western Europe, UK, Australia) and as mentioned above, we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there.

And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed. In a few years it will become a classic in its own right, and then we have the possibility to to make it flat-priced anyway (read next!) The choice is always yours. All we are after is to present it to you 100% DRM-free. We are sure you will make the best choice for yourself, and let others enjoy their own freedom to make choices as well.

So, what is going to happen with classic games then?

Classic content accounts for about 80% of our catalog, so yes, this is a super important topic. We've mentioned here above that we can’t control prices for new games, but we do have a lot of influence when it comes to classic games. GOG.com is the store that made this market visible and viable digitally, and we're the ones who established the prices we charge. We believe that we have a good record to argue for fair pricing with our partners.

So let's talk about the pricing for classics that we're shooting for. For $5.99 classics, we would like to make the games 3.49 GBP, 4.49 EUR, 199 RUB, and $6.49 AUD. For $9.99 classics, our targets are 5.99 GBP, 7.49 EUR, 349 RUB, and $10.99 AUD. This is what we’ve got in mind at the moment. We’ll do our best to make that happen, and we think it will. How? Well, we have made our partners quite happy with GOG.com's sales for years - thanks to you guys :). We have created a global, legal, successful digital distribution market of classics for them. This market didn't exist 5 years ago. By (re)making all those games compatible with modern operating systems for MAC and PC, we've made forgotten games profitable again. When it comes to classic games, we can tell them that we know more about this market than anyone. :) Being retrogaming freaks ourselves, we know that 5.99 EUR or GBP is crazy expensive for a classic game (compared to 5.99 USD). We have always argued that classic games only sell well if they have reasonable prices. Unfair regional pricing equals piracy and that’s the last thing anybody wants.

What’s next?

We will do our very best to make all of the above happen. This means three things:

First, we will work to make our industry go DRM-free in the future for both classic and new games (that’s our mission!).

Second, we will fight hard to have an attractive offer for those AA+ new games for our European, British and Australian users, despite regional pricing that we have to stick to.

Third, we will switch to fair local pricing for classic games, as I mentioned above.

TheEnigmaticT earlier mentioned that he would eat his hat if we ever brought DRM to GOG.com. I'm going to go one step further: by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing as outlined above. If not, we'll set up a record a video of some horrible public shaming for me, TheEnigmaticT, and w0rma. In fact, you know what? Feel free to make suggestions below for something appropriate (but also safe enough that we won't get the video banned on YouTube) so you feel that we're motivated to get this done quickly. I'll pick one that's scary enough from the comments below and we'll let you know which one we're sticking to.

I hope that this explanation has helped ease your worry a bit and help you keep your faith in GOG.com as a place that's different, awesome, and that always fights for what's best for gamers. If you have any questions, comments or ideas, feel free to address them to us below and TheEnigmaticT and I will answer them to the best of our abilities tomorrow. We hear you loud and clear, so please do continue sharing your feedback with us. At the end of the day GOG.com is your place; without you guys it would just be a website where a few crazy people from Europe talk about old games. :)

I end many of my emails with this, but there's rarely a time to use it more appropriately than here:

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
avatar
GabiMoro: Yes it been said but can you post a link to Gabe Newell or a Valve official saying that?
Even if it was said, I wouldn't take their word for it and count on that. ;)
high rated
avatar
Selderij: So in addition to establishing that regional prices are going to be a "thing" for new games, this letter delivers another bomb in the form of regionally priced ALL games. As if by destiny, Europeans end up paying more even for the classic games now. You have no idea how many customers you're pissing off right now, and rest assured that what you see on this forum is a drop in the ocean compared to the true extent of the dissatisfaction evoked by this shift in policy.

GOG was never in dire straits financially. In 2012, GOG had a healthy net profit margin of 20% out of over €10 million in revenue. In 2013, that revenue doubled with the profit margin staying at least as lucrative. GOG didn't sell out its flat pricing out of any kind of necessity. Don't anyone even think that. As a friendly reminder, GOG is registered in Cyprus, a tax haven and country-sized money laundromat popular among Russian oligarchs. GOG is not in a position to plea sympathy on financial grounds of any kind. In light of that, the fact that European VATs were mentioned in the letter is frankly disgusting. Isn't that nice, reminding that we should pay our taxes when you clearly don't want to pay any yourself?

GOG wants to play its customers for fools. The initial announcement was sexed up with "good news" and focusing on three exciting new games that wouldn't be possible without regional pricing. The follow-up letter continues this condescending treatment by dressing up regionally priced classic games as an exciting and positive thing: "by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing". What a great promise, I just can't wait! Three hoorays for "fair local pricing" and paying more as a European! And here I thought that the original announcement was good enough news! It seems we can always trust GOG to go above and beyond the call of money... DUTY! I meant duty! To its customers!

I suppose all of this is going to at least pay off in games that we'd otherwise never get? No. LucasArts, Bethesda, 2K and others already have had their old games on Steam for years. To clarify: Steam has old games by LucasArts, Bethesda and 2K, including Doom, Fate of Atlantis and the old UFOs. I cannot stress that fact enough! Unless the Steam client is programmed to specifically kill your PC on sight, chances are you'll be able to play those games instantly with no incidents whatsoever. Go and play them right now if playing them is your main reason for wanting them! But if your main reason to buy a game is to bask in its non-DRM glory on your virtual shelf, I suppose you're stuck between GOG and piracy, but don't fool yourself or others that you love the games themselves.
That was beautiful, well written and spot on. And some people wonder why I started a thread claiming the DRM-free Revolution is a farce, nothing more than marketing spin and a so-called core value that will get thrown under the bus just as readily as this one did once they hit a revenue ceiling again and it becomes the only way to make more money - accept DRM so they can bring us all that sweet AAA we would otherwise be missing, etc.

I would love to see them just come right out and say:

Here it is guys. It's all about the money. So regional pricing is in. Games with DRM are coming. We are going to sell everything everybody else does in the interest of generating the most profit possible.

Fine. Just be fucking transparent. Be honest. Stop with the spin already. We were not born yesterday.

I do not see it as inherently wrong for a business to try to maximize revenue and profits. What I see as wrong is selling people a vision and set of values that are not consistent with that and then letting them down later. Of course people feel betrayed and more. There is no way to sugarcoat the fact that some customers are getting the shaft here with this "Good News." For a lot of GOG customers the new deal sucks.

None of this had to happen. All spin aside, it was a deliberate choice to make more money. Just be honest.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by dirtyharry50
avatar
borsook: Anyway the discussion about DRM is pointless, my original point was about PATCHING. The point was that patching system on Gog is very inconvenient with new games, look at patching history of Expeditions Conquistadors, manually downloading each patch, and more often then not having to download a full install.
avatar
PixelBoy: I respecfully disagree.

Based on your registration date, I have been a GOG user two years longer than you, so I am old enough to remember "the old days".

EVERY game card used to have a mention "patched to the latest official version" and even version number mentioned. This was the kind of service that no other store offered at the time.

Sadly, instead of other stores adapting this policy, GOG actually DROPPED this policy, and there are no longer any mention of games being the latest versions in the game cards. And also, many games these days have a game installers and an upgrade patch as separate downloads, which makes it VERY inconvenient to both install and archive a game.

I do see your point about updating an already installed game... but, the thing is, those patches are a pain in the ass. I had a game breaking issue with BS5, and I had to download a separate patch. Fine. The problem is, that patch refused to install the update on my computer. So I had to redownload the installers, redownload the patch too and install those on another computer, and then extract those updated files from that install and mover over to the computer where I had BS5 originally installed. Yes, it worked. Yes, it was very bothersome. Now of course this is not necessarily GOG's fault as much as Revolution's fault for releasing a buggy game. But, still, it demonstrates the value of getting a fully patched installer from the moment you buy it.

I suppose automatic online updates would be more convenient, but this really goes against DRM-free principle.
Yes you can also see what happens if a DRM service closes and there are no standalone patches. A lot of Games for Windows Live Games will not be transferred to Steam or get rid of this protection (especially Capcom games). So the games maybe can installed and played in offlinemode but you have to play the vanilla version without any patches or dlcs you payed for.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by Silverhawk170485
avatar
GOG.com: On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.
Hmm i must not have read that yesterday ? Does GOG really buy that afraid of piracy thing ? Yeah sure some of the smaller devs and publisher are probably really scared of that.
But for the major players piracy is and was always just a scapegoat. DRM is about control not fear of loss of money.
(You guys remember the "Games are so expensive because of piracy thing right ?". Now look at how "cheap" PS3 games were when it was nigh impossible to pirate them. They were the most expensive of the bunch)

You really believe you can change the mind of people that are hellbend on screwing over their customers in any way they can get away with ?

Also i understand you don't want to make any publisher pay the vat, after all Vat isn't a choice. But why then not just add the Vat of a given country onto the sale price, hell even Amazon manages that.
AOW3 is a prime example of how it's done wrong. For germany the price should be 47.50$ or so. 39.99 +19% Vat.
I wouldn't like that either but i can accept VAT is out of GOG's hand and a country problem.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by Reaper9988
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/letter_from_the_md_about_regional_pricing/post1059

Murphy's Law never ever fails. When it fails, it's because you just failed at failing. And when your bread falls butter up, that's because you did a mistake and spread butter on the wrong side. =þ
Post edited February 26, 2014 by Ormenelle
I don't care about regional pricing very much, as long as the difference is moderate. After all, games on GOG are extremely cheap, and the price we pay is worth the product - we get somthing better than everyone else. I would not leave GOG if all prices doubled tomorrow. That being said, I have a question about the sentence "we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there."

Does that mean there will be region-exclusive extras? This would concern me a lot more than the price...
high rated
avatar
mehmet1453: Changing GOG policy in this case is not some gross betrayal of its customers it's just facing up to reality and that at the end of the day it is business venture and has to make a profit. In any case PC gamers along with music, film, console gamers and others were betrayed along time ago collectively by distributors and other companies when they went down this path of cartel like behavior.
GOG.com is "facing up to reality" and admitting defeat. If you can't beat them, join them.

But the scary thing is that you could change the subject of this debate from Worldwide Pricing to DRM-Free, and the arguments would read almost exactly the same.

The majority of the pro Regional Pricing arguments can be summed us as "Oh well, at least they kept DRM-Free." They are in support of GOG.com and new games, not in support of Regional Pricing. Most of them take the attitude that something had to go, and it is better to abandon Worldwide Pricing than to abandon DRM-Free.

Ultimately though, this is a flawed assumption. There is no need to abandon anything. The argument would be just the same (although probably more vocal) if GOG.com decided to abandon DRM-Free and keep Worldwide Pricing.

How many people here can honestly say that their arguments and their motivations would be exactly the same if this was about DRM rather than Worldwide Pricing? Would you be happy if GOG.com gave up on DRM-Free for the sake a few new games? Would you say "Oh well, at least they kept Worldwide Pricing" and carry on as normal? Would you argue that ditching DRM-Free is a moot point because you can create a "workaround" to remove it? Would you argue that GOG.com is just "facing up to reality" and trying to "remain competitive" by dropping their DRM-Free policy?

If you care about ANY of the policies of GOG.com, then you should be arguing against the unnecessary removal of any of their core values. Because, if GOG.com think that dropping one of their core principles for a few new games is okay, then it would be fine for them to drop all of their core principles for new games.

"We don't want to sell our games via GOG.com, because your catalogue looks old and out of date." "Okay, we'll drop our classic games."

"We don't want to sell our games via GOG.com, because the lack of DRM makes you open to piracy." "Okay, we'll drop our DRM-Free stance."

"We don't want to sell our games via GOG.com, because your Worldwide Pricing policy makes the deals we are offering in other place look like bad value for money." "Okay, we'll drop Worldwide Pricing."

Are you sure this is the GOG.com that you want to support? Because by arguing FOR the removal of Worldwide Pricing, that is what you will get. And, like a row of dominoes, each dropped principle makes it harder to resist pressure to drop the rest as well. All anyone would have to do in negotiations is argue that they dropped Worldwide Pricing, so what is different about dropping any of the others?

Even the argument that "we were wrong to have Worldwide Pricing as one of our principles" is flawed. Because this opens up the argument that they are also wrong to have any of their other principles. The argument becomes that it is wrong to have any principles at all.
avatar
Ormenelle: And when your bread falls butter up, that's because you did a mistake and spread butter on the wrong side. =þ
This is why I always butter both sides, just to be sure.
avatar
Reaper9988: Also i understand you don't want to make any publisher pay the vat, after all Vat isn't a choice. But why then not just add the Vat of a given country onto the sale price, hell even Amazon manages that.
AOW3 is a prime example of how it's done wrong. For germany the price should be 47.50$ or so. 39.99 +19% Vat.
I wouldn't like that either but i can accept VAT is out of GOG's hand and a country problem.
This is actually what I thought they would do based on the wording of their "letter". Fair pricing would be exactly that. What we have now is in several multitudes unfair. Firstly the VAT is 19% as you say, not 37%, and secondly if they still bill us in $ we still incur the conversion fee for $ to € and the bad exchange rate in paypal.

What we have now is the worst form of regional pricing someone could have come up with. It's the steam pricing model except we don't pay in € (and thus have no extra fee or conversion cost) so GOG just became more expensive than Steam.

Befuddling this is.... I thought GOG wanted to do this right and not unfair.. I guess I was wrong sigh
high rated
The simple truth is:

Regional pricing is never fair to the customer.


Sorry, gog, but dropping the second bomb - adding regional pricing for ALL of your catalogue - was too much. I just deleted my wishlist since I no longer have any interest of buying games from you. I will also soon backup all of my 83 games I bought here, just in case, you know, you also decide to dump your second core principle of not including any DRM.


You just lost another customer, and I'm sure I'm not the only one you lost because of this bullshit.
i think the 3 supposed AAA titles on preorder are not worth losing the flat fair pricing , however,
if it means there will be a greater selection of gog made available from the larger publishers back catalogues them i would be happy enough.

if there is not a plan to bring in great titles from the larger pubs then my view is that ditching the fair regional price for these 3 mediocre titles is a very bad move.

time will tell , but hopefully we can have some clarification on this.

if they decide to not offer drm free then gog can GTF ;)
avatar
U328688: The whole regional pricing move feels like a coup de grace to GOG's original, romantic vision.
Because it is. With this move Gog became just another company. I am probably not the only one here who urged devs to get their games on Gog and who was holding off on buying games until they were available here. I did this because I believed in Gog's stated values. I don't see a reason to do any of that now. There are lots of other places to buy games. Many also offer them DRM-free. Gog now is one option among many. And for new games it is a pretty bad option considering how long it takes them to update new games.
avatar
Reaper9988: Also i understand you don't want to make any publisher pay the vat, after all Vat isn't a choice. But why then not just add the Vat of a given country onto the sale price, hell even Amazon manages that.
AOW3 is a prime example of how it's done wrong. For germany the price should be 47.50$ or so. 39.99 +19% Vat.
I wouldn't like that either but i can accept VAT is out of GOG's hand and a country problem.
avatar
eRe4s3r: This is actually what I thought they would do based on the wording of their "letter". Fair pricing would be exactly that. What we have now is in several multitudes unfair. Firstly the VAT is 19% as you say, not 37%, and secondly if they still bill us in $ we still incur the conversion fee for $ to € and the bad exchange rate in paypal.

What we have now is the worst form of regional pricing someone could have come up with. It's the steam pricing model except we don't pay in € (and thus have no extra fee or conversion cost) so GOG just became more expensive than Steam.

Befuddling this is.... I thought GOG wanted to do this right and not unfair.. I guess I was wrong sigh
That's a point.
avatar
Davane: If you care about ANY of the policies of GOG.com, then you should be arguing against the unnecessary removal of any of their core values. Because, if GOG.com think that dropping one of their core principles for a few new games is okay, then it would be fine for them to drop all of their core principles for new games.

"We don't want to sell our games via GOG.com, because your catalogue looks old and out of date." "Okay, we'll drop our classic games."

"We don't want to sell our games via GOG.com, because the lack of DRM makes you open to piracy." "Okay, we'll drop our DRM-Free stance."

"We don't want to sell our games via GOG.com, because your Worldwide Pricing policy makes the deals we are offering in other place look like bad value for money." "Okay, we'll drop Worldwide Pricing."

Are you sure this is the GOG.com that you want to support? Because by arguing FOR the removal of Worldwide Pricing, that is what you will get. And, like a row of dominoes, each dropped principle makes it harder to resist pressure to drop the rest as well. All anyone would have to do in negotiations is argue that they dropped Worldwide Pricing, so what is different about dropping any of the others?

Even the argument that "we were wrong to have Worldwide Pricing as one of our principles" is flawed. Because this opens up the argument that they are also wrong to have any of their other principles. The argument becomes that it is wrong to have any principles at all.
When it comes straight from the top you know it's going to be 2x as hard for GOG to overcome this perceived lack of faith in their original vision.
So many people "predicting" that DRM-Free will go next.

That'll never happen. GOG, without the DRM-Free selling point, would be completely destroyed by Steam. That one thing is what makes this the best service out there, drop that and it'd all be over.

So, no, never going to see DRM here.

Besides, when even the Steam forums are railing against all DRM except for Steam's own, that makes me suspect that the end of an era where you have to crack the game you just bought in order to play it is coming to an end. Well, unless Steamworks takes over completely, then the end of my very long gaming career would be what was ending.