It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Hey Goggers;

As many of you know, we announced on last Friday that we are going to introduce regional pricing for 3 new games coming up on GOG.com soon. Looking at the amount of reactions (over 3,500 comments at this very moment), it is obvious that this change is making many of you guys worried. We must have failed to clearly explain why our pricing policy for (some) newer games will change and what this means as a matter of fact for our PC & MAC classic games, which account for over 80% of our catalogue.

To be honest, our announcement was a bit vague simply because our future pricing policy is not 100% set in stone yet and we were just worried to make any promises before it was. You know, GOG.com has been growing quickly (thanks to you!), and the more we grow, the more we are worried to make some of you guys disappointed. This is why we were so (over-)cautious with our announcement.

We should have just been upfront about why we've made these changes and what they mean for us in the future and what we're planning. So let's talk. To be clear: what I'm talking about below is our plan. It's a plan that we believe we can accomplish, but while it's what we want to do with GOG, it may change some before it actually sees the light of day. Please don’t blame me for talking open-heartedly today and telling you about the plans and pricing policy we want to fight for and eventually achieve. The below plans aren't sure. The only guarantee I can give you is that we’ll do our best to fight for gamers while still making sure GOG.com as a whole grows (because well, we still want to be around 50 years from now, you know!). So, enough for the introduction, let’s get things started.

Why does GOG.com need to offer newer games at all?

We've been in business for 5 years now, and we've signed a big percentage of all of the classic content that can be legally untangled. There are still some big companies left we're trying to bring into the GOG.com fold, like LucasArts, Microsoft, Take2 and Bethesda, but what classic titles will we sign in the future once we have those partners on-board? We need to sign newer games or else just fire everyone and keep selling the same limited catalog. Either we bring you “not so old” releases from 2010+ or brand-new AAA titles, because these will become classic games tomorrow. It’s as simple as that.

Also, well, we want to expand beyond just classic games, hence the fact we have been offering you brand-new indie releases for almost 2 years now. Why expanding? Well, obviously, because the more games we sell, the more legitimacy we have on the market and the more likely it is that we can achieve our mission: making all PC & MAC video games 100% DRM-free, whether classic or brand-new titles.

To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it. It treats legitimate customers like rubbish and pirates don't have to bother with it. It's bad for gamers, and it's also bad for business and our partners. We want to make it easy and convenient for users to buy and play games; rather than give piracy a try. Happy gamers equals a healthy gaming industry; and this is what we fight for. Anyway, I am sure you well know our opinions about DRM.

To make the world of gaming DRM-free, we need to convince top-tier publishers & developers to give us a try with new games, just like they did with classic games. We need to make more case studies for the gaming industry, just like we successfully did back in 2011 with The Witcher 2. It was our first ever 100% DRM-free AAA day-1 release. GOG.com was the 2nd best-selling digital distribution platform worldwide for this title thanks to you guys, despite having regional prices for it. We need more breakthroughs like this to be able to show all the devs and publishers in our industry that DRM-free digital distribution is actually good for their business and their fans. And when I say breakthroughs, I am talking about really kick-ass games, with a potential metacritic score of 85% or more, AA+ and AAA kind of titles.

And this is exactly why we signed those 3 games we told you about last Friday. We believe those 3 games can be massive hits for hardcore gamers, that they can help us spread the DRM-free model among the industry for newer games and we did our best to convince their rights holders to give GOG.com a try. One of those games, as you see already, is Age of Wonders 3. We're planning more titles even beyond these first 3 soon.

Alright, but why is regional pricing needed for those (only 3 so far!) newer games then?

First of all, you have to be aware of an important fact when it comes to newer games: GOG.com cannot really decide what the prices should be. Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops. This will change over time (as digital sales should overtake retail sales in the near future), but as of today, this is still a problem our industry is facing because retail is a big chunk of revenue and there’s nothing GOG.com can do to change that. We need to charge the recommended retail price for the boxed copies of the games in order for developers (or publishers) to either not get sued or at least get their games visible on shelves. You may recall that our sister company CD Projekt RED got sued for that in the past and we don’t want our partners to suffer from that too.

On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.

Getting back to those 3 new upcoming games coming up. The first one is Age of Wonders 3, which you can pre-order right now on GOG.com. The next 2 ones will be Divine Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3. We’re very excited to offer those games DRM-free worldwide and we hope you’ll love them.

Still, we know some countries are really being screwed with regional pricing (Western Europe, UK, Australia) and as mentioned above, we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there.

And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed. In a few years it will become a classic in its own right, and then we have the possibility to to make it flat-priced anyway (read next!) The choice is always yours. All we are after is to present it to you 100% DRM-free. We are sure you will make the best choice for yourself, and let others enjoy their own freedom to make choices as well.

So, what is going to happen with classic games then?

Classic content accounts for about 80% of our catalog, so yes, this is a super important topic. We've mentioned here above that we can’t control prices for new games, but we do have a lot of influence when it comes to classic games. GOG.com is the store that made this market visible and viable digitally, and we're the ones who established the prices we charge. We believe that we have a good record to argue for fair pricing with our partners.

So let's talk about the pricing for classics that we're shooting for. For $5.99 classics, we would like to make the games 3.49 GBP, 4.49 EUR, 199 RUB, and $6.49 AUD. For $9.99 classics, our targets are 5.99 GBP, 7.49 EUR, 349 RUB, and $10.99 AUD. This is what we’ve got in mind at the moment. We’ll do our best to make that happen, and we think it will. How? Well, we have made our partners quite happy with GOG.com's sales for years - thanks to you guys :). We have created a global, legal, successful digital distribution market of classics for them. This market didn't exist 5 years ago. By (re)making all those games compatible with modern operating systems for MAC and PC, we've made forgotten games profitable again. When it comes to classic games, we can tell them that we know more about this market than anyone. :) Being retrogaming freaks ourselves, we know that 5.99 EUR or GBP is crazy expensive for a classic game (compared to 5.99 USD). We have always argued that classic games only sell well if they have reasonable prices. Unfair regional pricing equals piracy and that’s the last thing anybody wants.

What’s next?

We will do our very best to make all of the above happen. This means three things:

First, we will work to make our industry go DRM-free in the future for both classic and new games (that’s our mission!).

Second, we will fight hard to have an attractive offer for those AA+ new games for our European, British and Australian users, despite regional pricing that we have to stick to.

Third, we will switch to fair local pricing for classic games, as I mentioned above.

TheEnigmaticT earlier mentioned that he would eat his hat if we ever brought DRM to GOG.com. I'm going to go one step further: by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing as outlined above. If not, we'll set up a record a video of some horrible public shaming for me, TheEnigmaticT, and w0rma. In fact, you know what? Feel free to make suggestions below for something appropriate (but also safe enough that we won't get the video banned on YouTube) so you feel that we're motivated to get this done quickly. I'll pick one that's scary enough from the comments below and we'll let you know which one we're sticking to.

I hope that this explanation has helped ease your worry a bit and help you keep your faith in GOG.com as a place that's different, awesome, and that always fights for what's best for gamers. If you have any questions, comments or ideas, feel free to address them to us below and TheEnigmaticT and I will answer them to the best of our abilities tomorrow. We hear you loud and clear, so please do continue sharing your feedback with us. At the end of the day GOG.com is your place; without you guys it would just be a website where a few crazy people from Europe talk about old games. :)

I end many of my emails with this, but there's rarely a time to use it more appropriately than here:

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
borsook.. i think you need to understand the definition of drm...

steam ticks everybox and more

steam is about control.. you use the games on their terms. your games have no resale value killing the 2nd hand market totally.

you dont get the install executables from steam , so in effect you physically or digitally do not own the game. more like a lifetime rent.

intrusive controls dressed up as a service..i guess you like that sort of thing?

not for me, although i do have steam only for halflife 2 and portal _ which i bought the retail boxed version but got hoodwinked by having to install steam to play.

i would also love to have dawn of war 2 but since its steam only then i wont be buying it.
avatar
zeroxxx: Can you install your GOG games without GOG? How do you obtain the installer if it is not from GOG?

The same goes for Steam. Steam is a distribution, digital service. You can put what you want on Steam, and they sell it for you. You don't even need to attach CEG (which is the DRM part of Steam) in order to sell.

So GOG and Steam are no different. GOG is pure DRM free at the moment, but on Steam you have the choice to embed/employ Steam's CEG to secure your game/stuff.

If you can't understand this simple logic, I give up.
avatar
SentinelWolf: You can download the install.exe and burn it on a dvd or store it in a pen. Even if one day, GOG no longer exists, you can still install and play with your game.
You cant do that with steam.

If you can't understand this simple logic, i give up.
lol wut? When Steam disappears, it will be patched so all downloaded games no longer require Steam. It has been said before.

And chance of Steam disappearing? Slim than 0.000001% in the near future. I'd worry about GOG shutting down than Steam.
avatar
Woolytoes: I don't see a lie. Can I install the game without Steam? Can I run the game without Steam? No? Well, then it is DRM. Not to mention the additional 3rd-Party DRMs on Steam.
avatar
zeroxxx: Can you install your GOG games without GOG? How do you obtain the installer if it is not from GOG?

The same goes for Steam. Steam is a distribution, digital service. You can put what you want on Steam, and they sell it for you. You don't even need to attach CEG (which is the DRM part of Steam) in order to sell.

So GOG and Steam are no different. GOG is pure DRM free at the moment, but on Steam you have the choice to embed/employ Steam's CEG to secure your game/stuff.

If you can't understand this simple logic, I give up.
Yes, You can install GOG games without GOG. In theory, You can give copies of a single purchased GOG setup file to all your friends for free or even make it available for download for everyone - that's what DRM-free means. The upside for me as a customer is that i can, for example, purchase a game from gog on my pc, then simply copy the setup file to my laptop and install it on both. To my knowledge, something like that is not possible on Steam.
avatar
Reaper9988: Except you need to have the steam client installed to download the games, happily sending info about you to steam.
Also as far as i remember even most of the non DRM games don't run without having steam running at least in offline mode.

For GOG i get the install files for the games and install that's it only need to redownload something if i want an update.
As soon as steam offers to let us download the DRM free setup files directly from their website without the need to use the client, you might have a point.
Even GMG doesn't force you to use their client to install most of their DRM free games, it's only the worst ones that force their client on you (Steam, Origin, Uplay)

Thinking about it you're right, technically steam is not DRM, it's just a extremely horrible distribution service.
avatar
zeroxxx: And you need your GOG account to download games. What is the difference again?

It's only Client vs Website.
Forcing the client is the difference, but yeah it's actually not DRM per se.
avatar
zeroxxx: Can you install your GOG games without GOG? How do you obtain the installer if it is not from GOG?

The same goes for Steam. Steam is a distribution, digital service. You can put what you want on Steam, and they sell it for you. You don't even need to attach CEG (which is the DRM part of Steam) in order to sell.

So GOG and Steam are no different. GOG is pure DRM free at the moment, but on Steam you have the choice to embed/employ Steam's CEG to secure your game/stuff.

If you can't understand this simple logic, I give up.
avatar
bastormonger: Yes, You can install GOG games without GOG. In theory, You can give copies of a single purchased GOG setup file to all your friends for free or even make it available for download for everyone - that's what DRM-free means. The upside for me as a customer is that i can, for example, purchase a game from gog on my pc, then simply copy the setup file to my laptop and install it on both. To my knowledge, something like that is not possible on Steam.
I am doing it all the time on my three laptops. All installed with the same games. I can provide pictures if necessary though that takes time.

Edit: the downside is, each individual laptop requires to be connected to Steam once to authenticate. After that, Offline Mode does the trick.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by zeroxxx
Why not just keep the display price 5.99 as it already is? Although my country's currency is about the same as the Russian Ruble, but regional pricing means I'll pay slightly more.
avatar
SentinelWolf: You can download the install.exe and burn it on a dvd or store it in a pen. Even if one day, GOG no longer exists, you can still install and play with your game.
You cant do that with steam.

If you can't understand this simple logic, i give up.
avatar
photoleia: Agreed. It is also worth mentioning that you don't need a special installer or downloader to use GOG titles. Since they are DRM free, they operate completely independently of the site.

--------------------

Sorry I wasn't trying to turn this into a debate or trying divert everyone away from the subject at hand. My original comment was mainly to illustrate why making comparisons of GOG to what Steam does/doesn't do has little baring here. A significant percentage of GOG users do not use Steam because it is DRM. Therefore including discussion of it here is not very useful.

Please don't let my original comment turn this discussion into some kind of flame war.
I'm sorry how are you not getting this? You can download a steam game and burn it on a cd or put it on a drive. They call it a backup function, and yes, they do have it. You can dislike Steam however much you want, but do not confuse lack of knowledge about something with facts.

The inclusion of this topic was just as an example of things gog will have to deal with if they want to go after more day one releases. The model that works perfectly with old games may not be as convenient with new games that are changing all the time (e.g. imagine the remake of Blade of Destiny on gog).
avatar
zeroxxx: Can you install your GOG games without GOG? How do you obtain the installer if it is not from GOG?

The same goes for Steam. Steam is a distribution, digital service. You can put what you want on Steam, and they sell it for you. You don't even need to attach CEG (which is the DRM part of Steam) in order to sell.

So GOG and Steam are no different. GOG is pure DRM free at the moment, but on Steam you have the choice to embed/employ Steam's CEG to secure your game/stuff.

If you can't understand this simple logic, I give up.
avatar
bastormonger: Yes, You can install GOG games without GOG. In theory, You can give copies of a single purchased GOG setup file to all your friends for free or even make it available for download for everyone - that's what DRM-free means. The upside for me as a customer is that i can, for example, purchase a game from gog on my pc, then simply copy the setup file to my laptop and install it on both. To my knowledge, something like that is not possible on Steam.
Steam is nice. Just copy your steamapps folder point Steam to it and it fixes itself. Pretty easy and nice stuff if you end up re-installing your OS or get new computer and have games in different disk...
First off, just want to say that I still support GOG fully and will remain a loyal customer (I am in Canada by the way).

While I do not completely agree with regional pricing, I realize that this is not GOG's most optimal situation to be in and is more-so pushed upon them.

People turn so quickly on a company who has actually taken the initiative to stand up for them in the past, and who make public announcements, such as these, that they will continue to do so in the future. In my opinion that is kind of a betrayal by those unloyal customers. I would much rather support GOG then the current alternatives and will continue to do so.

Secondly, those who suggest that Steam is NOT a form of DRM are completely blind. On GOG, you download the install files to your computer and can install / play them with NO restrictions. GOG is a store front where you can obtain a video game, just like a brick and mortar store. GOG is not a program that runs on your computer, they are merely a storage facility and distribution center to obtain video games, in that way you do not NEED them, other than to purchase said video game.

The difference with Steam is that I MUST PLAY THE GAME THROUGH STEAM. That is the very definition of DRM in my opinion. I MUST GO ONLINE TO REGISTER THE GAME THROUGH STEAM. That is the very definition of DRM in my opinion. Even games that I have purchased in a brick and mortar store require me to come home, download Steam, and without Steam, the game is completely useless (COD: Black Ops for example, amongst many others). That is unacceptable. If I want to play a game offline and never touch the internet with that computer, I do not see why I must install and run a program that must connect online to do so. Not to mention, if I "offend" Steam, they can TAKE AWAY EVERY GAME I HAVE PURCHASED AT THEIR SOLE DISCRETION (as stated in their TOS).

For that reason, I will continue to disagree with Steam's business practices and avoid giving Steam my support whenever possible.

The difference with GOG, is that I can go online on one computer to download the install files, back them up on a hard disk / USB drive and install them any time, any where with no restrictions, no other programs, nothing, JUST THE GAME. The way it should be.

For that reason, I will remain loyal to GOG and support GOG fully.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by ShroomBomba
avatar
PixelBoy: Isn't the entire point of DRM-free that you only need to download games once, and they are yours to keep as long as you live?
Offering download option as a backup is nice, but unnecessary, if you backup your files carefully.
avatar
LutheR78: I would happily pay a small fee for server maintenance rather than caring about archiving all of my purchases.
Also, GOG occasionally updates earlier releases.
When You buy a game on GOG, you alwas have the option of redownloading it shoud You lose your copy - that goes even for games they don't offer any longer, like Fallout. If that's what You mean by server maintenance, then GOG does offer it.
avatar
zeroxxx: lol wut? When Steam disappears, it will be patched so all downloaded games no longer require Steam. It has been said before.
So you trust what Valve says? No evidence here. And since Valve is a DRM provider, if it goes bankrupt, be sure that publishers won't accept DRM fall, look at GFWL, those games weren't made DRM-free, but Steam'd.



avatar
zeroxxx: And chance of Steam disappearing? Slim than 0.000001% in the near future. I'd worry about GOG shutting down than Steam.
Video games aren't a single shot service. At least for many people. If you are always online, and don't play a game twice anytime soon, well I could assume differences are tiny. But it's not the case for lots of people. So one word: Backups.
avatar
GOG.com: Hey Goggers;

cut
gog.com has my trust. I'm sure you will give us AAA + games DRM free in the future. thanks for the explanation, we needed


only raccomandation. Please,always multilanguage support, German, Italian, spanish, polish, ecc.ecc. Always...
avatar
zeroxxx: And you need your GOG account to download games. What is the difference again?

It's only Client vs Website.
Website is DRM-free vs Client that uses DRM?

Riiiiight.
avatar
Woolytoes: I don't see a lie. Can I install the game without Steam? Can I run the game without Steam? No? Well, then it is DRM. Not to mention the additional 3rd-Party DRMs on Steam.
avatar
borsook: Can you install the game without Steam? That's absurd. Can you install a Gog.com game without Gog? You need Steam to install the game. Then it has a function to back it up to some location if you want, so yes, you can reinstall it without the Internet connection.

Can you run a game without Steam? Yes, you can. I gave you an example even. There are many games that can be run without steam and many that can't. Many publishers use Steam as a form of DRM but it doesn't mean it IS drm. Look at traditional distribution. Many publishers used CD-checks as DRM. Does it mean that a CD is DRM? No, a CD is just a medium, which can be used as DRM but it doesn't have to be.

I hate DRM as much as the next guy, but saying that Steam is DRM is not exactly true, this view is repeated by people who never actually tried to use Steam extensively, the truth is not that black and white.

Plus saying "they may have some good ideas, but we don't care because they have DRM" is just fanatic. Gog is great because it is DRM free. Does it mean nothing gog does could be done better?
Where is the list of games on Steam which if purchased via boxed copy you do not have to have Steam installed on your system to use the game? The CD is the medium as you stated in your post, and Steam forces the use of it's client even when the medium is a physical copy, that's DRM.
If there is a substantial list of examples to the contrary please do provide them, perhaps there are many games on steam which do not require the steam client to use or install (yes even the first time) but if so I am unaware of them.

Even with the digital only copies Steam is still DRM, if you get the .exe and files for a game on one computer via steam you are not (last I checked) then able to take those same files and use them on another one of your computers which has not been connected to steam at any point. With the DRM free GOG copies of games you can use and play them even on computers which have never had an internet connection, steam however requires you to place their software on your machine just to use the software you've purchased... that's about as clearly DRM as it gets. (Again if there are examples to the contrary please link them, but I'm unaware of steam allowing installs/use of digital software they sell on computers which have never installed or run the steam client)

A CD is a medium, the internet is a conduit (sort of a transitory medium), a HDD or USB can be mediums, a 3rd party software suit being required to DL/install/use software you've purchased is DRM, and that's what steam is.

0.02 FRN
Legion
avatar
borsook: [....] Even Matrix/Slitherine which keep a very traditional model, without any distribution client have an autopatching app. Which is purely optional, but IS THERE. This is what GOG, imo, needs if it wants to be competitive with new games. (that and Linux, otherwise people will go to gamersgate, you will get there a DRM-free version for 3 platforms and on GOG for 2)
GOG remains competitive on that front because they ensure game compatibility with current operating systems. Everyone else sells titles "as is". You can buy a game meant for 98/ME/2000/XP, but if it doesn't run on Win 8, tough luck. GOG, on the otherhand, makes sure that the games they sell remain playable. Auto patching would be nice, but the lack of this feature does not make GOG less competitive.