Then don't separate yourselves from the rest of us non-religious typs who do act with right and morality in mind.

The op described it as having 'a christian message' then went on to say it's not overty religious just about good.

How is that the domain of ANY religion.

I'm sorry, but in most cases where you are separated, it's because christians do the separating. If OP had said it had a moral message I might have been more open, but automatically tagging good with christian, especially seeing the state of the more prominent 'believers' is just ridiculous.

I can't believe this guy is getting so much crap for posting a freeware game. Talk about uncharitable... shaking my head...

Anyway, sounds good... thanks!

Yes, all of those things are scary in my personal opinion. Nothing can be done about it though, you aren't going to show someone that believing "God" is sheer stupidity because as you said people are always seeking to believe something. Whether it is true or not the people that are looking for something to believe will believe it.

I know right.

Can we please refrain from turning this thread into a religious debate? I don't want to seem like I'm trying to censor you guys here, but Tallima has made this game and wants to share it with us and hear some feedback. Let's show him some respect guys, discuss your religious opinions in another thread if you want, keep this one to proper feedback for the game please.

Well it was a natural response to a number of things mentioned in the opening post. But yeah, I think we've all said enough before anyone gets too offended.

I'll try to get some replies to your questions and comments.

I never mentioned a "Christian message" in the original post. That statement comes from a website that used to host the game that was linked by a Christian gaming group. This was way back before google had a strong search engine. The likelihood that an atheist gamer would have stumbled upon it was zero. The point to saying it had a "Christian message" was meant to indicate that the game could be played by a Christian and not be offended (probably mostly -- it's hard not to offend anybody).

Above in my OP, I posted that there's nothing too overtly Christian about it. I tried to list everything I could think of that had a Christian theme to it so that folks could figure out if it would be appropriate for them. The last thing I want is a 12-year-old Muslim boy getting in trouble by his parents for playing a "Christian" video game that has Christian elements that go only as deep as the 10 commandments and an argument over drunkeness.

After I built Leefe for this game, the subsequent games (2 unfinished and the Neverwinter Nights game) had different religions. It turned out that I didn't like putting Christianity into a fantasy game. My brother, who helped on some of the game parts, still prefers it, though. Because it's as if real Christianity disappears inside of video games. But then, so do real everything else. The only religion I can think of it any video game are terrorist Muslims. And that's not terribly endearing.

I didn't make this game for only Christians. I didn't make it for only moral people. It's for anyone who wants to play a short RPG and have some fun. I just wanted to let you all know that there are Christian elements to it since I know a lot of people on this forum could be offended if they felt suckered into reading the 10 commandments or somesuch.

I'll answer some more in a minute. I'll put a walkthrough on GOG in a short while.
Thanks GoJay. I feared it might do the same. I hope I was able to alleviate others' concerns.

Game walkthrough

Kudos for making a game and putting it out there, no matter what the theme. Better to be doing something that makes you happy than moaning about what others are doing.

However, the bit I quoted interested me. I had no idea Christians felt "creeped out" by video game magic being used for good, or that it was even an issue at all. I'd be interested to hear you expand on that, either here or via PM if you're worried about getting flamed.

Well, I asked because Jesus supposedly turned water into wine, walked on water, fed thousands of people with a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish, etc. Wouldn't they be biblical examples of "good magic"?

That's a good point.

Magic, as talked about in the Bible, can be either a fraud or evil. No in-betweens. Characters like Simon the Sorcerer seem to get their power from something evil.

The "good magic" from Jesus is considered a miracle. That is, natural physics is altered by the character who makes physics work the way they work. The idea of Jesus' works being "magical" or praying for classically magical things (like a "circle of protection") are examples of paganism in the Church.

Way back in the day (1998ish), I was involved with some discussions and watched ye olde Internets forums and learned that a ton of Christians had problems playing games with any magic at all. But especially "good magic," because, since magic is evil in the Bible, to call it good (or the ends justify the means) is extra-evil.

The way I see it, there's a generally accepted classical view of fantasy magic that exists as a part of the natural physics of a fantasy land. So the inclusion of magic doesn't make it evil, it just works with that established world.

But it's probably true that some folks who have been neck-deep in DnD have decided that they wanted to visit a real fortune teller or visit a real voodoo witch doctor in Louisiana. So I can see where some folks would say "It could be interpreted as evil, so get it out of my game!" (or, more often than not on the old forums, "get it out of my kids' game.")

Nonetheless, it's a tiny fractional minority that have a problem with it. And the percent of those people who actually play any video games at all is probably next to nill. Therefore, I abandoned my no-magic fantasy land world.

I'm not sure I understand. What exactly are you saying the difference is between a miracle and magic?

Walkthrough for Legends of Leefe: The Great Volcano

This walkthrough will give hints and spoilers. I'll put some astericks ( * ) near points that give too much away. Only use this guide if you are completely stuck or just want to coast.

You can play full-screen/window by pressing F4. You can change your graphics with F5. F12 will restart the game (don't press it :D).

PART ONE: Ell's Castle and The Museum

The game opens up with you talking ot the the king. You'll want to hear what he has to say. When he's done, save the game.

Before you leave on your quest, SAVE YOUR GAME!

The King tells you that you need to draw the volcano from the east and west. And you need to train. But before that, you may want to visit the curator to get some quests completed from the safety of the castle (and near it). Go west of the King and you'll find an old man. Talk to him.

Also, visit the King's bedroom. He has a few goodies there that you are free to take.

You can search through the residents' things and grab anything you find. I'd recommend just selling any books you get. The magic system is terrible and the spells are severely underpowered.

The NPCs in the castle give occasional hints with museum missions and they give ambiance. You don't have to talk to them.


If you want to do the museum missions right off, the game will be fairly easy. They are intended to be slowly investigated throughout the game. Here are some intro spoilers if you want to do them.

*** MUSEUM MISSION 1 SPOILER ***
REWARD: 5000 gold

The concerto you're looking for is in Maple, a village to the west. SAVE before you leave Ell's Castle. It's possible (though super-unlikely) to spawn a random battle, and you're terribly weak. Don't go in the forest -- those battles are frequent and hard.

The concerto is being played at church.
********************************

Return to the museum currator to get the next mission.

*** MUSEUM MISSION 2 SPOILER ***
REWARD: Powerful weapon Bear Claws
Terrabolt's staff is located in the castle. Talk to the man near the eastern well in Ell's Castle and he'll give it to you and you'll enjoy a minor Indiana Jones reference. :D
*********************************


*** MUSEUM MISSION 3: Lar's Claw SPOILER ****
REWARD: Good armor, shield and weapon. Some money, too.
The weapon shop in Lazareth has them. Stay on the road and you'll avoid most battles. Be sure to have the bear claw equipped from museum mission 2 just in case.
*********************************

*** MUSEUM MISSION 4: Sword of Nol ***
REWARD: Information
This one's really hard b/c you have no idea where it is. Except now you do. It's just to the east. One of the ministers has it.
****************************************

*** MUSEUM MISSION 5: Orb of Leefe ***
REWARD: SPECIAL POWDER
Walk along the western shore, west and just north of Lazareth (there's a little peninsula). You'll eventually come across someone with the orb.
***************************************
NOTE: DO NOT USE special powder. Ever. Right now, just hold onto it. We'll use it as a form of currency later.

*** MUSEUM MISSION 6: Serra's Pike ***
REWARD: Special powder, max HP potions, and some other high-value loot (don't use or sell the special powder until later) -- and nearly the best armor and helm and sword
This is not in the forests to the east. It's just where it was lost. And you won't be able to get it for a while. So this ends your museum mission spree.
You will eventually be able to find it at the cave in the end of a lava flow. Kill the golem-looking guy and you'll get it.
****************************************

PART 2: Back to the mission. Get trained and draw the volcano.

Stick to the road and stay near the lava flow and you should be able to get to the fort. Try to save periodically. And don't fight the dragon.

Once you get up to level 8, heal yourself with some food.

Go back to Ell's castle and buy some medicine. As much as you can carry is probably not a bad idea. Also, sell what you don't need and browse the armor and weapons. If you've done the museum missions, you don't need better armor or weapons right now.

GET A SECRET ITEM: Go to the SW corner of Leefe and then head east along the coast. When you see the boat, approach it. SAVE. Battle the thieves guarding the boat. There are 2 waves of thieves. Have on exploding jar for each one to clear them out. If you can't seem to get it done now, come back after you have a few more levels. Take the boat to the island just to right and run around while hitting your action key. You'll find the best weapon in the game: a ring that blows everything up. You'll also get another ring the ups your stats by a lot. Also, do to a bug, you should be able to take them infinitely if you want lots of money. But money shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Go visit the volcano in the NW. If you have it in view, you'll get an animation of the volcano. Then enter the cave-labrinth near the volcano and fight like crazy. When you get low on health, heal. There's no need to go looking for loot. There might be a little in there, but nothing worth the time.

You'll be looking for a large floor area with a hole in a corner. The general way to get there is by going up and east, then working your way west to the west end of the cave, then south. Then the floor is to the east of you near the southern section of the cave. Enter the hole, SAVE, and kill the minotaur to get a key to the west.

Sorry. Combat is long and boring. But we'll fix that soon.

Hopefully, you're level 9 by now.
Note: You need to hit the space bar (or whatever you use for your action key) to get out of the minotaur's lair.

Draw the volcano from the west and then go back into the cave. When it asks to take the secret passage, say yes unless you're a masocist.

Go talk to one of the science advisors at the king's table (you have to talk to the old guy on the bottom left)

You should be level 12 or 13 now.


PART 3a: Clover of Icewind

Talk to the advisor 1 up from the old guy. He tells you he needs the clover of icewind (I had no idea about the game Icewind dale at the time. I swear.)

You need to find some tree people. They're in the western forests in the SW section of Leefe (just south of Thorn). Let's go!

Low Spoiler: The entrance to the Tree People tribe is in the northeast part of the forest. To get there without using any secrets, you should start from the west. This area is dangerous. Come well-stocked with healing supplies and save often.

SPOILER 1: Enter from the west and get a great item. Stay to the west as you move up north and you'll find a short and straight dead-end that goes to the western edge of the map. SAVE YOUR GAME. Go down the dead-end and fight the thieves there. They have armor that will make you immune to most random battles. Use all the items at your disposal (except special powder). One exploding jar should get most of the first theives. It's a long fight. If you can't get it done, come back a while later.
Also, the stealth cloak is funny how it works. Each screen you go to, use it twice. Then it'll be active. Only use it when you want to avoid random events. When you're in costume, the cloak is active.

SPOILER 2: Enter for the east and get the quest done fast
Right when you enter the forest, press the action key (space bar) and you'll take a secret passage. Go north to the stump and press the action key. Now you are with the Tree people.


Shaelon is in the ruined castle SE of the volcano. He can be tough, but if you've followed every spoiler here, you should be just fine. He gives a ton of XP and gold.

Go to the Tree People and talk to them again.


PART 3b: BARK from Tree of Whispers

The Tree of Whispers is east of Ell's Castle. It's not good. It's dead and gone. Who could possibly have bark? Read the sign to find out. Jake is in Thorn, which is the nearest village to the Treepeople. He's in a building on the east side of the city.

He wants 50,000 gold for the bark! You need to make some money. You can fight stuff at Fort Friendly for gold. You can sell your stuff. You can do some money cheats above. But the best way is to sell your Special Powder from the museum missions. Go ahead. Give it a sell. It's worth a half million.

PART 4: Get the boat together

500,000 is a tall order. But we can make that money with Special Powder. However, I have a feeling we'll need at least some special powder to win the game. And after we leave on that boat, there'll be no more coming back to the same ol' Leefe. The answer? The Thieves Guild!

You may have noticed people in the city jails talking about someone. If you gather all of that information, and then use the well in Dust (while owning a rope -- you can buy on in Ell's Castle), then you'll be able to enter. Bring lots of money (couple hundred thousand from selling off that special powder from the museum mission).

Jail: Lancer (Lazareth)
Baywatch drunkard in shop (Lancer is 52)
Northville: Joe John
Joe John Lancer, 52

You can buy just about anything at the Thieves' Guild. After each visit, you are asked if you want to buy stolen special powder for $100,000. (plus the $10k to get into the guild each time -- making it $110k). You can buy as much as you'd like, but I'd recommend getting at least 5. You can also pick up the Dragon Scale shield, the Dragon Armor, the Dragon Helmet and some max recovery potions.

You can sell your real special powder (from the museum missions) and trade it for stolen special powder. Don't worry, they work just the same. You can't sell stolen special powder. Be sure you still have 500k left for your boat trip.

Go talk to the king and set off once you have:
1) A rope
2) 5 special powders
3) Turned on the lighthouse at baywatch
4) You have healing supplies a handful of max hp and tons of elixers are great)
5) 500k (if you need more money and you've done all the museum missions and you don't want to abuse a bug, then you'll need to have a lot of combat at Fort Friendly. Also, some raiders east of the big lake have qutie a bit of money.)


Part 5: Isle of Fire


Go through the left tower
Keep going until you end up on a level floor with a hole. Not on the hole but next to it, press ACTION (space bar) to use your rope (if you have no rope, then you need to go to the end of the right tower. There is a rope in a cupboard.)

Keep following the path until it opens up. Then you'll want to head down and left, then up and around to the right. Just keep wandering until you find a chest.

Take the diary back to your ships. This isn't Skyrim where every cave has a convenient exit. You'll have to walk.

SAVE

Part 6: The Cold Island
Just follow the path. Heal up before you leave.

Part 7: Dune Islands
Drive around and look for another boat. "Talk" to the boat.

Part 8: Volcano Beast King Guy
Start each section of combat against the Volcano King (and the one with the large group of baddies -- and if you have 5 special powders, you can start any combat session) with a special powder attack. That will weaken him. Then follow up with swords, spells and other items. Don't skimp on the healing. Ever.

If you left the dragon and the raiders alive, they will eventually come help, but they are not absolutely required. Just keep each major section of combat started with the powder, and you should do fine.

Once everyone has joined, then that's the last battle. Give him all your special powders and make him beg for mercy.

FIN!
The definitions will never be 100% agreed upon, but I'd suggest that a miracle is when something happens that is against the natural order of the world, which is acted upon by God.

Magic would be an act of unnaturally affecting the world, worked by human or supernatural (but evil) ways.

They could look similar, or even identical, as a result. But the event taken as a whole is markedly different.

Examples:
Miracle: I pray for money and I find a quarter in my pocket that I knew was empty just a minute ago. I give the money to the homeless man.

Magic: I light 3 candles and throw glitter into the air, attempting to summon The Dark Hand and ask the Dark Hand to provide me with a quarter in my pocket. I buy some lemonheads.


Miracle: My cancerous arm falls off and I learn I am cancer free.

Magic: I sacrifice my cancerous arm to a Daedra Lord and then get picked up by the men in the white coats who drive the pretty van with the woo-woo lights.


Miracle: Moses turns the water to blood, convincing some that God's message is true.

Magic: The Egyptian sorcerer changes the water to blood, persuading a king to keep hundreds of thousands of slaves.