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cogadh: In the US, several states have tried implementing laws that exact fines against stores that sell "M" rated games to kids under 18, but I believe all of them have been struck down (so far). Most retailers already have company policies that can get a store employee fired for selling "M" rated games to underage kids, but the enforcement of that policy can be sporadic at best. Then there is also the "Wal*Mart factor" where the largest retailer in the country virtually refuses to sell anything with an "M" rating. Its not exactly enforcement of the ratings system, as much as abuse of the system in an attempt to force their own morality on the country through censorship.
And not to mention, again, that nudity, is not pornography, and therefore the sale to minors is not illegal (in the States anyway..)
Post edited October 18, 2009 by Weclock
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cogadh: In the US, several states have tried implementing laws that exact fines against stores that sell "M" rated games to kids under 18, but I believe all of them have been struck down (so far). Most retailers already have company policies that can get a store employee fired for selling "M" rated games to underage kids, but the enforcement of that policy can be sporadic at best. Then there is also the "Wal*Mart factor" where the largest retailer in the country virtually refuses to sell anything with an "M" rating. Its not exactly enforcement of the ratings system, as much as abuse of the system in an attempt to force their own morality on the country through censorship.
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Weclock: And not to mention, again, that nudity, is not pornography, and therefore the sale to minors is not illegal (in the States anyway..)

True, its not illegal, just as it is not illegal for a 14 year old to get a ticket to a rated R movie that shows boobs, but it is frowned upon by stick-up-their-asses conservative parents groups and the like. They do (unfortunately) have the ability to make things very uncomfortable for retailers, which they generally like to avoid.
Post edited October 18, 2009 by cogadh
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cogadh: In the US, several states have tried implementing laws that exact fines against stores that sell "M" rated games to kids under 18, but I believe all of them have been struck down (so far). Most retailers already have company policies that can get a store employee fired for selling "M" rated games to underage kids, but the enforcement of that policy can be sporadic at best. Then there is also the "Wal*Mart factor" where the largest retailer in the country virtually refuses to sell anything with an "M" rating. Its not exactly enforcement of the ratings system, as much as abuse of the system in an attempt to force their own morality on the country through censorship.

Walmart doesn't sell M rated games? I haven't noticed, but I haven't shopped there for games in years.
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cogadh: In the US, several states have tried implementing laws that exact fines against stores that sell "M" rated games to kids under 18, but I believe all of them have been struck down (so far). Most retailers already have company policies that can get a store employee fired for selling "M" rated games to underage kids, but the enforcement of that policy can be sporadic at best. Then there is also the "Wal*Mart factor" where the largest retailer in the country virtually refuses to sell anything with an "M" rating. Its not exactly enforcement of the ratings system, as much as abuse of the system in an attempt to force their own morality on the country through censorship.
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Kingoftherings: Walmart doesn't sell M rated games? I haven't noticed, but I haven't shopped there for games in years.

Generally, it depends on what got the game its "M" rating. Bloody violence is usually OK, but if it has anything to do with sex or nudity, Wal*Mart will refuse to sell it. There have actually been several instances of games being modified just to suit the sensibilities of Wal*Mart and get the lower "T" rating. No publisher wants to lose the market that Wal*Mart offers.
Post edited October 18, 2009 by cogadh
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cogadh: Generally, it depends on what got the game its "M" rating. Bloody violence is usually OK, but if it has anything to do with sex or nudity, Wal*Mart will refuse to sell it. There have actually been several instances of games being modified just to suit the sensibilities of Wal*Mart and get the lower "T" rating. No publisher wants to lose the market that Wal*Mart offers.
"Want to kill your family? hell yes, you can do that."
vs
"want to express strong emotional feelings physically for your loved ones? hell no, get the fuck out you sicko."
The backwards "pornography" stigma is part of the reason our culture is as disfunctional as it is.
I plan on not only exposing my children to porn at an early age (not degrading porn...only an adult with a sound mind can properly process that type of imagery without being overtly affected), but making it a non-issue, like terrorism.
And like terrorism, people have demonized something that is actually quite harmless, and which has no true way to harm you. Terrorism is the futile weapon of the weak, and conservative attitudes towards pornagraphy are the futile weapons of an ideologically deficient minority that feels it's ok to legislate morality.
Pornagraphy casts a wide net, and not all of it is male-centric degradation. AND, the porn that *is* male-centric and involves degrees of degradation is *still* consensual.
The US (And Canada to a lesser extent) attitude towards nudity is unhealthy, and borderline dangerous.
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michaelleung: Why would you buy one? DO you even KNOW what the Internet was MADE FOR???
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Rohan15: ^^ truth.
Post edited October 18, 2009 by anjohl
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anjohl: Pornagraphy casts a wide net, and not all of it is male-centric degradation. AND, the porn that *is* male-centric and involves degrees of degradation is *still* consensual.

As usual, Bill Hicks was right: "I guess a lot of women's attitudes - is that those movies are degrading to women. And I say: "Pfft, look at the guys! Are they exalted? I couldn't make a face like that if a car ran over my foot. She looks great. He looks like a doofus!""
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anjohl: The backwards "pornography" stigma is part of the reason our culture is as disfunctional as it is.
I plan on not only exposing my children to porn at an early age (not degrading porn...only an adult with a sound mind can properly process that type of imagery without being overtly affected), but making it a non-issue, like terrorism.
And like terrorism, people have demonized something that is actually quite harmless, and which has no true way to harm you. Terrorism is the futile weapon of the weak, and conservative attitudes towards pornagraphy are the futile weapons of an ideologically deficient minority that feels it's ok to legislate morality.
Pornagraphy casts a wide net, and not all of it is male-centric degradation. AND, the porn that *is* male-centric and involves degrees of degradation is *still* consensual.
The US (And Canada to a lesser extent) attitude towards nudity is unhealthy, and borderline dangerous.

I would hate to be your kid.
"Hey son, want to watch some porn?"
"I'm busy thank you much."
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anjohl: The backwards "pornography" stigma is part of the reason our culture is as disfunctional as it is.
I plan on not only exposing my children to porn at an early age (not degrading porn...only an adult with a sound mind can properly process that type of imagery without being overtly affected), but making it a non-issue, like terrorism.
And like terrorism, people have demonized something that is actually quite harmless, and which has no true way to harm you. Terrorism is the futile weapon of the weak, and conservative attitudes towards pornagraphy are the futile weapons of an ideologically deficient minority that feels it's ok to legislate morality.
Pornagraphy casts a wide net, and not all of it is male-centric degradation. AND, the porn that *is* male-centric and involves degrees of degradation is *still* consensual.
The US (And Canada to a lesser extent) attitude towards nudity is unhealthy, and borderline dangerous.
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honorbuddy: I would hate to be your kid.
"Hey son, want to watch some porn?"
"I'm busy thank you much."

Sorry, it would be more like this:
"Son, I heard that your friend Billy got in trouble for sneaking a Playboy into school"
"Yeah Dad, he got in real trouble"
"Well, did you look at it?
"Yeah"
"Well, what did you think?"
Etc. Creating a stigma based around the naked human form is one of Western culture's most damning crimes. Without the allure and wonder displayed in porn (Even the most degrading ones I would argue, though they are not my for me) the human race wouldn't exist.
Sex is the original industry, and Porn sales have been reported to be higher than the top hollywood releases. With little to no advertising. Think about it.
Post edited October 19, 2009 by anjohl
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anjohl: I plan on not only exposing my children to porn at an early age (not degrading porn...only an adult with a sound mind can properly process that type of imagery without being overtly affected), but making it a non-issue, like terrorism.

I think that while your intentions are sound, it seems like the wrong way to go about it. Firstly, exposing porn to children at an early age may not be the best idea. I mean, kids now sneakily watch porn on their computers or read a Playboy under the sheets. This sense of secrecy and to an extent self discovery is important for kids to learn from themselves. Having them watch porn with your knowledge and your encouragement will take that away. To kids, porn is probably a non-issue. I say if you know he/she is watch porn, just him or her and do not talk about porn until they are old enough to form rational views about things like this.
And you won't get arrested for exposing this material to a minor.
I believe that porn is not degrading, but is simply a different form of art. Andy Warhol made porn, you wouldn't call him a sick, exploiting smut maker, would you? It seems that porn and our society at large is at odds because people don't find watching people do a natural thing on film a good thing.
Post edited October 19, 2009 by michaelleung
As an adult, I strongly disagree with you Michael. If you know what a stigma is, you will understand that creating one regarding nudity in a child is virtually incurable, and leaves a permenant mark.
Personally, I feel that many domestic disputes have ties to childhood stigmatization of nudity.
Also, *nobody* is going to arrest me for how I choose to raise my children regarding morality. That is part of what makes my country great. We don't legislate morality. Well, except that we do piggyback on the US drug laws, unfortunately.
Post edited October 19, 2009 by anjohl
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anjohl: As an adult, I strongly disagree with you Michael. If you know what a stigma is, you will understand that creating one regarding nudity in a child is virtually incurable, and leaves a permenant mark.
Personally, I feel that many domestic disputes have ties to childhood stigmatization of nudity.
Also, *nobody* is going to arrest me for how I choose to raise my children regarding morality. That is part of what makes my country great. We don't legislate morality. Well, except that we do piggyback on the US drug laws, unfortunately.

You're an adult? I always thought you were a high schooler for some reason.
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anjohl: As an adult, I strongly disagree with you Michael. If you know what a stigma is, you will understand that creating one regarding nudity in a child is virtually incurable, and leaves a permenant mark.
Personally, I feel that many domestic disputes have ties to childhood stigmatization of nudity.
Also, *nobody* is going to arrest me for how I choose to raise my children regarding morality. That is part of what makes my country great. We don't legislate morality. Well, except that we do piggyback on the US drug laws, unfortunately.
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honorbuddy: You're an adult? I always thought you were a high schooler for some reason.

OH BURRRRRRRRRRRRN!
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anjohl: Sorry, it would be more like this:
"Son, I heard that your friend Billy got in trouble for sneaking a Playboy into school"
"Yeah Dad, he got in real trouble"
"Well, did you look at it?
"Yeah"
"Well, what did you think?"

More like:
"Well, did you look at it?
"Dad, can we stop talking about this?"
I do wish you luck, though.
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anjohl: As an adult, I strongly disagree with you Michael. If you know what a stigma is, you will understand that creating one regarding nudity in a child is virtually incurable, and leaves a permenant mark.
Personally, I feel that many domestic disputes have ties to childhood stigmatization of nudity.
Also, *nobody* is going to arrest me for how I choose to raise my children regarding morality. That is part of what makes my country great. We don't legislate morality. Well, except that we do piggyback on the US drug laws, unfortunately.
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honorbuddy: You're an adult? I always thought you were a high schooler for some reason.

Decent try child, decent. I do find it hilarious though how deeply some users hold illogical grudges. That kind of negative energy hurts noone but you, since your vain attempt at wit certainly didn't affect me.