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General discussion (archive)Legal-eese, or, "Can someone please clarify?"(44 posts)solved(44 posts)solved
(44 posts)solved
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 02, 2014
As you can guess from the topic, I get awful confused when confronted with legalese of any complexity. All of the "therewiths" and such make my brain feel like it's leaking out my ears.

I have a single question today, and that is:

If I die, a suddenly very real possibility now that I'm in my mid-30's, and my children inherit my computer, which has all of my GOG install files, do they also inherit said files? Are they legally required to delete the files and then purchase the games and download them? I've gone over the User License a couple of (hundred) times now, but I just can't interpret it well enough to answer this question. This is important to me, as I've managed to get my kids interested in playing many of the GOG's that I have.

Thanks, in advance,

MasterZoen
This question / problem has been solved by OneFiercePuppyimage
Posted May 03, 2014
I think DRM-free games work the same way as, say, a physical copy of a book- when you die (hopefully not till much, much later!), your family doesn't need to burn your books, and then go buy new ones.
Posted May 03, 2014
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MasterZoen: As you can guess from the topic, I get awful confused when confronted with legalese of any complexity. All of the "therewiths" and such make my brain feel like it's leaking out my ears.

I have a single question today, and that is:

If I die, a suddenly very real possibility now that I'm in my mid-30's, and my children inherit my computer, which has all of my GOG install files, do they also inherit said files? Are they legally required to delete the files and then purchase the games and download them? I've gone over the User License a couple of (hundred) times now, but I just can't interpret it well enough to answer this question. This is important to me, as I've managed to get my kids interested in playing many of the GOG's that I have.

Thanks, in advance,

MasterZoen
no, they are not required to delete the files. i would think that anyone who uses your computer has the right to play all of the gog games that you legally obtained on your computer. gog is drm-free. you certainly wouldn't be able to send your children the installers to use on their own computers, because that would be illegal, but i would be shocked if gog had any intention whatsoever of policing who can play gog games on your own computer. it might be a different story with steam/valve, but thankfully, gog is not steam. i hope this helps, and i hope that you will be around for many years to come. :)
Post edited May 03, 2014 by IT2013
Posted May 03, 2014
Great questions... here's some sources that indicate software license, in general, is transferable not sure if there are quirks with digital distribution or not. It looks like the kids get your games when you die. Steam even has a family library sharing system which implies one household multi-player use is cool with them (http://store.steampowered.com/sharing/).

European Courts say licenses transfer if you purchase a software license for an indefinite period of time using a single fee then that can be transferred to another party by sale; or I infer inheritance-> http://www.mayerbrown.com/When-Is-a-Software-License-Transferable-Even-If-It-Says-Its-Nontransferable-12-18-2012/

Legal precedent in United States to show software transfer equals sale of goods rather than license of intellectual property -> http://www.wilmerhale.com/pages/publicationsandNewsDetail.aspx?NewsPubId=92555
Post edited May 03, 2014 by undeadcow
Posted May 03, 2014
I think it might be technically against the terms of service but no one would fault them for playing them. Account transferal is generally frowned upon in all digital things.
Posted May 03, 2014
The general gist of most software licenses: the program is licensed for one user on one computer. This is usually enforced though DRM measures like CD keys or limited activations.

According to a law school professor cited in the Wall Street Journal: Many digital assets are owned through a license that is limited to the account-holder and nontransferable. The license may cease to exist when the account-holder dies, so it can't be transferred in a will. But by placing the license in a trust, it is possible that the license will survive the death of its creator.

I'm no lawyer but it sounds like a legal grey area. That said, you already downloaded it legally. If it stays on the computer there is no reason the games couldn't be played while you aren't physically present. Again, I'm no lawyer.

Citation: WSJ article
Post edited May 03, 2014 by zaine-h
Posted May 03, 2014
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cmdr_flashheart: I think DRM-free games work the same way as, say, a physical copy of a book- when you die (hopefully not till much, much later!), your family doesn't need to burn your books, and then go buy new ones.
The fact that they do not need to does not make it legal. I must confess that although I used to read software licenses when they were short, I don't do anymore, not even here. One thing I do remember from the days before DRM is that even the most permissible ones were not transferable.

In any case, GOG makes old software run on today's computers, they make no guaranty for tomorrow's systems.
Posted May 03, 2014
If I remember correctly, only YOU have the right to use the GOGs you purchase. You can do whatever you want with them but only you. Nobody else, just you. Of course, your children can choose to ignore what is legal and make use of your GOGs after you are dead. But I think they should buy the GOGs they want to play to support GOG. :)
Posted May 03, 2014
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MasterZoen: Are they legally required to delete the files and then purchase the games and download them? I've gone over the User License a couple of (hundred) times now, but I just can't interpret it well enough to answer this question. This is important to me, as I've managed to get my kids interested in playing many of the GOG's that I have.
OK, went ahead and looked at the EULA for a few of the GOG games I have, plus went and refreshed my memory at Groklaw and some court ruling texts, so I hopefully don't come across as too stupid. Here ya go:

In the EULA for the GOG games, it says that you have no rights to transfer the license you're given. So, in order to do what you're asking, you would need to be bound by a higher law which supersedes the EULA mumbo-jumbo. It looks like you're from the USA. Rejoice.

Despite a *lot* of activity in the 9th circuit court (appeals. So many appeals.) most rulings have upheld the doctrine of first sale for software. In a nutshell, this means that you can transfer the license even if the EULA says you cannot, because you "own" your copy of the license (not the software, though; just the license). So in the USA, you are allowed to do what you're asking, which is transfer the license to your children - though, caveat, you can't transfer a single license to multiple people, so technically you'd have to decide for each license who gets the rights.

Even if doctrine of first sale fails for software licenses- and it isn't really looking like it will, but IANAL and sure don't know - the SCOTUS has upheld an additional instance of doctrine of first sale when intellectual property is sold overseas. Since GOG is based out of Cyprus and officed in Poland, there's another legal line of defense for transferability of license.

If you're really super paranoid about this, you can make an oral contract with a wife/husband/s.o. that on your death, you transfer to them the licenses so that your children can continue playing the games. Include the reason, because that will constitute consideration should the oral contract be questioned (it would not reasonably be). If your children are of the age of majority (not likely given you're only in your mid 30s) you could make the contract with them.

Finally, note that realistically, as long as your kids wouldn't do anything stupid like seed torrents for the games, nobody would ever care, or even know. And if they *did* do something like that, they'd be in trouble regardless of who paid for the use license. So, yeah, if you get hit by a meteor and explode, your kids can keep playing the GOG games. Nobody will challenge their right to do so. And if they did, you can be sure the EFF would pay for the lawyers who would swoop in and deliver a court-appointed ass whooping to the plaintiffs.
Post edited May 03, 2014 by OneFiercePuppy
Posted May 03, 2014
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StingingVelvet: I think it might be technically against the terms of service but no one would fault them for playing them. Account transferal is generally frowned upon in all digital things.
I didn't read the question as one of account transferal. I wonder if there's any solid law about that, given that accounts generally only exist to provide access to files, not authorization to use those files.

To the internets!
Posted May 03, 2014
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cmdr_flashheart: I think DRM-free games work the same way as, say, a physical copy of a book- when you die (hopefully not till much, much later!), your family doesn't need to burn your books, and then go buy new ones.
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justanoldgamer: The fact that they do not need to does not make it legal. I must confess that although I used to read software licenses when they were short, I don't do anymore, not even here. One thing I do remember from the days before DRM is that even the most permissible ones were not transferable.

In any case, GOG makes old software run on today's computers, they make no guaranty for tomorrow's systems.
I was thinking in terms of leaving something in your will.

As per OneFiercePuppy's post, you can also do that with digital stuff.
Posted May 03, 2014
Didn't the EU recently make some law about enforcing the allowability of selling 2nd-hand software and other digital stuff? In that case, surely bequeathing games would also be allowed, at least in the EU. I wouldn't know about the the US, though.
Posted May 03, 2014
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babark: Didn't the EU recently make some law about enforcing the allowability of selling 2nd-hand software and other digital stuff? In that case, surely bequeathing games would also be allowed, at least in the EU. I wouldn't know about the the US, though.
Yes. You're referring to this, most likely. But it isn't (yet?) relevant to the OP assuming their country indicator is correct, because lawyers.

/sigh
Posted May 03, 2014
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OneFiercePuppy: Yes. You're referring to this, most likely. But it isn't (yet?) relevant to the OP assuming their country indicator is correct, because lawyers.
Isn't Poland part of the EU? Does it matter where the OP is from? Or are you saying it is about the contracts that the publishers in the US made with gog about reselling?

Concepts involving national borders are really quite silly when it comes to digital distribution. Wish we could have an international body governing it that was free from the influences of megacorps in the US. Unfortunately then none of the US companies would join it.
Posted May 03, 2014
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OneFiercePuppy: Yes. You're referring to this, most likely. But it isn't (yet?) relevant to the OP assuming their country indicator is correct, because lawyers.
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babark: Isn't Poland part of the EU? Does it matter where the OP is from? Or are you saying it is about the contracts that the publishers in the US made with gog about reselling?

Concepts involving national borders are really quite silly when it comes to digital distribution. Wish we could have an international body governing it that was free from the influences of megacorps in the US. Unfortunately then none of the US companies would join it.
I'm in the US, and unfortunately all alien laws tend to stop at the border. It's going round and round in the courts to the point that you have to wonder whether you own anything anymore. Primary argument against owning, as a friend in a law course explained to me, is that you sign a contractual agreement stating that you don't own it, second argument is that it is an "intellectual property." When he explained what that meant I almost passed out laughing. The very concept that a person can own an idea is, to me, completely against the foundations of the U.S. government. Further, as someone already mentioned, the First Sale law was created specifically to stop publishers from claiming that people did not own their books. Software publishers are still publishers, so I believe they should already fall under this.

Oh, well. No real clear answers yet. Just in case, I'm going to talk to my lawyer about creating a trust specifically for my game licenses and the computer said games will be installed on so that outdated technology won't be a hindrance for new games.

In regards to mega-corps running the world, well, that's why I've said since my teens that Capitalism shall be the end of human society.

On a scary note, in regards to the ruling of UsedSoft vs Oracle, has anyone noticed that almost all of Microsoft's Office software is now based on an annually purchased license...
Post edited May 03, 2014 by MasterZoen
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Legal-eese, or, "Can someone please clarify?"(44 posts)solved(44 posts)solved
(44 posts)solved