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Paingiver: It is time that we do something. Bragging in forums against DRM doesn't do anything. Please share your ideas and state that you if you are in.

- We will build a web site.

- We will declare a manifesto. An open letter to companies.

- We will loud our voice via Facebook, Twitter and gaming forums.

- We will inform gamers about DRM and other harmful methods.
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sajin: 198 Methods of Nonviolent Action
http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations103a.html
I usually do a combination of #30 and #65
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StingingVelvet: The last stand was about 8 years ago and Half Life 2 won... by a lot.
this.
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kavazovangel: I have a suggestion... stop reading forums about DRM-related topics, stop caring about DRM, figuring whether this DRM is more or less bad, and just enjoy the games you've bought.
sense. this post makes a lot of it.
Post edited February 27, 2012 by Fred_DM
This again...

Just give it up, will you? It's not even a battle worth fighting. If it means that much to you, just buy the indie and GOG products without the stuff and leave the big boys alone, the only way to make a stand is to stop putting your money behind products you don't like.
Btw, we did win when it came to music. I don't think there is any DRMed music service left (at least if they want to earn money). Why? Because with music the consumer actually cared. As it gets "moved around" a lot, copied on mobile devices, listen offline, etc. (Well, there was some nasty legal articles about iTunes that certainly didn't hurt, and piracy was a much bigger issue).

Games are used differently, for the average consumer DRM is hardly an issue. I don't treat my DRM games any different than my DRM free games. And that's how many people do it. You just get on with life, as there are more important issues.

For the most part a game is a "product" that needs to "sell" itself to me. If the DRM is such an issue that it will kill any other interest, I won't buy it. Simple as that. It is the right of the creator to use any DRM he wants, it is the right of consumer to not buy the game.

And we still have piracy to fall back to. If DRM was such a big deal, a lot more people would turn to piracy (see music industry, and yes, I know the irony of that statement). DRM or DRM free is part of a sales pitch, it's not the end of entertainment as we know it.
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Paingiver: Oh, no.... =(

I really am trying to find support in a place where people mistake a cat for an elephant. And this forum would tell other gamers what the DRM is. My folly...

No, authentication is not even even a tiny atomic close to DRM. DRM is whole different matter.

DRM(Digital Restrictions Management) is a whole different matter:

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm

And a pretty video explaning the "Trusted Computing":

http://www.lafkon.net/tc/
Incorrect.

First, DRM iis Digital Rights Management.. which is odd because it should actually be Distribution Rights Management, but that's beside the point.

That aside, Windows does use DRM, perhaps not as intrusive of a DRM as some video game, but the simple undeniable fact is, even a CD key is DRM in the simplest form.. and before CD keys, there were books with games that had information you needed to play the game.

All DRM is, at all, is a means for the IP holder to attempt to prevent unauthorized redistribution of their IP. That is ALL IT IS.

The problem is, as the internet rose to power, many people began using it to distribute illegitimate copies of well.. everything they could. Books, music, video games, software, etc. and as such the IP holders have been scrambling for a way to prevent said distribution.

Why do you think iTunes is so popular with music labels? The same reason Steam is popular with video game publishers: it hinders piracy (in their minds at least) and it puts their product on a platform used by millions of people.

Some of the DRM methods aren't as bad, all things considered, Steam is not really a bad form of DRM so long as the service stays active, and as long as the service stays profitable for the companies involved, Steam will stay active. I personally, as a rule, never pay full price for a .. video game at all, and definitely not a Steam game.

Other forms of DRM though, are a problem.. the 'always online' thing.. that's an issue for me, because the cable at my house has spurts of instability. And lets not forget some of the ones that popped their heads up once or twice like "you can only install this game once!!!" type shit.

What companies really need to do is use a method of DRM that actually rewards the player for paying for the game.. because no, they don't need to completely get rid of DRM. Do you know why GOG works? GOG works because it's a fringe community and focuses on the older games, many of which aren't even available anywhere else. Even then, on various P2 P netowkrs there are plenty of copies of games from GOG being distributed, taking advantage of GOG's DRM-free platform.

Oh and as an aside, the argument as to whether or not GOG's account systems are DRM: It's not, at all, because there is absolutely nothing, aside from a sense of human decency, to prevent you from dumping the installers to a CD and giving them to your friends, or on a P2P network and giving them to the WORLD.. or even just giving a friend your account name and password to download a few of your games.
By comparison, other DD services may include such protections in (some of) the games they sell.. or there's services like Steam which require account verification to be able to play your games.
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timppu: 4. Did I already mention that downloading cracks and full game releases from p2p networks are a good way to install trojans and keyloggers to your Windows machine?
We're not the 90s anymore. Almost everything is safe.

In any case, there won't be lawsuits and stuff if Steam shuts down, IIRC, when you 'buy' a game, you actually subscribe to the service (the game together with Steam), for as long as the service is alive.
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timppu: 4. Did I already mention that downloading cracks and full game releases from p2p networks are a good way to install trojans and keyloggers to your Windows machine?
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kavazovangel: We're not the 90s anymore. Almost everything is safe.

In any case, there won't be lawsuits and stuff if Steam shuts down, IIRC, when you 'buy' a game, you actually subscribe to the service (the game together with Steam), for as long as the service is alive.
Heck, I trust some of the scene release groups more than some big publishers ...
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SimonG: If DRM was such a big deal, a lot more people would turn to piracy
How do you know they don't?


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SimonG: For the most part a game is a "product" that needs to "sell" itself to me. If the DRM is such an issue that it will kill any other interest, I won't buy it. Simple as that. It is the right of the creator to use any DRM he wants, it is the right of consumer to not buy the game.
I fully agree with this though, while asserting that it's perfectly okay to let the creators know about your preferences in a polite way - up to them what they do with it (some actually appreciate and sympathize with such feedback).
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Zolgar: Incorrect.

First, DRM iis Digital Rights Management.. which is odd because it should actually be Distribution Rights Management, but that's beside the point.

That aside, Windows does use DRM, perhaps not as intrusive of a DRM as some video game, but the simple undeniable fact is, even a CD key is DRM in the simplest form.. and before CD keys, there were books with games that had information you needed to play the game.
Nope.
While i'm not saying that the OP is right himself, that is not correct... CD Keys and manual check where not, and never will be, an example of DRM. They are instead copy protection mechanism

Sure, the bottom line is they both exist to prevent illegal distribution of software, but with a whole different implementation; after all, there is a reason why most people was only slightly/not at all bothered by cd checks, and are instead rampaging against DRM, and it's not just because it's a fancy new word...
Post edited February 27, 2012 by Antaniserse
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SimonG: If DRM was such a big deal, a lot more people would turn to piracy
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Leroux: How do you know they don't?
The music industry was losing sales faster then if they would have put Hitler on all of their covers. And not only is the gaming industry gaining sales, thanks to the digital market, the industry as a whole (especially small time indies) are making a lot more profits.

In the music industry piracy was actually hurting sales, because the consumers were no longer happy with the choices the industry offered. This point hasn't been reached with gaming. Quite the contrary, piracy is being reduced*, because of better service (Steam in Russia as the prime example).

*Actually, I'm not even sure if there is "less piracy" but they have made a gold mine out of one of the most pirate heavy markets in the world. Which would make "anti-piracy" even more of a scam.
Post edited February 27, 2012 by SimonG
gamers gate had a Dungeons and Dragons sale, by far and large better than GOG.coms... there installer is DRM, so i bought them all here..

Stand made voted with my wallet ^_^

i will always buy from gog.com unless they simply dont have the title or i don't think they will obtain the title im looking for with in a years time... with there current on-board publishers all i need to do is wait and be patient and keep voting with my wallet...
Post edited February 27, 2012 by Starkrun
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Starkrun: Stand made voted with my wallet ^_^
No, you just bought some overpriced wallpapers.
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Zolgar: Incorrect.

First, DRM iis Digital Rights Management.. which is odd because it should actually be Distribution Rights Management, but that's beside the point.

That aside, Windows does use DRM, perhaps not as intrusive of a DRM as some video game, but the simple undeniable fact is, even a CD key is DRM in the simplest form.. and before CD keys, there were books with games that had information you needed to play the game.
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Antaniserse: Nope.
While i'm not saying that the OP is right himself, that is not correct... CD Keys and manual check where not, and never will be, an example of DRM. They are instead copy protection mechanism

Sure, the bottom line is they both exist to prevent illegal distribution of software, but with a whole different implementation; after all, there is a reason why most people was only slightly/not at all bothered by cd checks, and are instead rampaging against DRM, and it's not just because it's a fancy new word...
I, and the dictionary, disagree with your definition.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drm

Any system that prevents distribution or use of digital content is DRM. Entering serialized keys or having to dig around a printed manual are most definitely restricting use. And less-so restricting distribution.

The newer methods of preventing distribution have made a lot of people upset. The always-online or always-online-with-a-U.S.-ip-address are a few of the biggest pains in the butt. The one I personally hate the most is the CD check when the CD isn't needed at all. I just simply despise it. Oh, and the limited installations.
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Starkrun: gamers gate had a Dungeons and Dragons sale, by far and large better than GOG.coms... there installer is DRM, so i bought them all here..

Stand made voted with my wallet ^_^

i will always buy from gog.com unless they simply dont have the title or i don't think they will obtain the title im looking for with in a years time... with there current on-board publishers all i need to do is wait and be patient and keep voting with my wallet...
It's like ... 6 dollars atm? For games that now cost you $25+ on GOG. Because the installer is DRM linked?

The games are DRM free as far as I know. Heck they're mostly the same as the Gog ones. Doesn't that mean you could probably have Rarred them up and set them aside for later?

Edit: From the looks of it even the installer can easily be made DRM free: "It is dreadfully easy to circumnavigate though. When the game installation screen starts up, go to wherever the temporary install file was saved, copy and paste it elsewhere and you have it DRM free permanently. "

Well, good on you ^^ (imo a great example of taking a DRM stance 'too far')
Post edited February 27, 2012 by Pheace
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kavazovangel: I have a suggestion... stop reading forums about DRM-related topics, stop caring about DRM, figuring whether this DRM is more or less bad, and just enjoy the games you've bought.
I'm as sick of the Steam-bashing as anyone. But I don't think people should just sit down and shut up. DRM is annoying, and the more people who fight against it, the more likely it is to go away. The people who are so against Steam are the same people who are actually doing something to change the industry, by refusing to support something they think is harmful. I think that's worth putting up with a few "LOLSTEAMSUCKS" rants.